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Jack's alternatives in EU?
- Thread starter shizoman
- Start date
yara - one of the best commercial fertilizer company.
i can still buy the old stocks called ferticare II for veg with a hint of epsom salt and CaN
for flowering it is the Ferticare™ IV 6-14-30
the new version have some other names, i cant recall it now, but check their website, or your local agro shops,
these are used mostly by professional vegetable growers, so for real advice look around, and ask a local store, or grower of legal crops
for flowering it is the Ferticare™ IV 6-14-30
the new version have some other names, i cant recall it now, but check their website, or your local agro shops,
these are used mostly by professional vegetable growers, so for real advice look around, and ask a local store, or grower of legal crops
Veggia farmer
Well-known member
You have used them? been thinking about the soluble ones for coco maybe. Beat the hydro store for price LOL. But I cant seem to find anyone with that high of P values.. To much N and K from my beliefs???
Veggia farmer
Well-known member
That alone in flower? cano3?
Phostrogen and Masterblend are complete and are available in the EU.
I was looking at Masterblend 3 part kit and it definitely looks top stuff...however.
Doing a bit of research I found the two parts(epsom salt, calcium nitrate) for really cheap in my local agro shop. Epsom salt was 7€ for 5kgs and Cal nitrate was 4€ for 3 kgs.
Now I'm looking for the "main" blend and also found what seems to be a great alternative product - Megacrop. Seems they offer it via the official web store in EU, also the price is much lower than Masterblend so I might just try it.
Anyone has experience with Megarcop, asking for use in soilmixes?
Cheers
Doing a bit of research I found the two parts(epsom salt, calcium nitrate) for really cheap in my local agro shop. Epsom salt was 7€ for 5kgs and Cal nitrate was 4€ for 3 kgs.
Now I'm looking for the "main" blend and also found what seems to be a great alternative product - Megacrop. Seems they offer it via the official web store in EU, also the price is much lower than Masterblend so I might just try it.
Anyone has experience with Megarcop, asking for use in soilmixes?
Cheers
Hi,
I am in the same situation.
I have already used MaxiBloom alone, not the KISS method .. (without calcium intake)
It lacked N, Ca and Mg
I found the Green House Hybrids, which has a ratio close to Jack's.
Jack's = 3 - 1 - 4
GH Hybrids = 3 - 1,4 - 4,4
Do you think Jack's 321 program is close to GH Hybrid + GH Ca?
No one is talking about Green House fertilizers on IC.
Is that shit or are you boycotting Green House?
For Yara, I only found the red Kristalon not the brown Kristalon.
YaraTera® KRISTALON RED 12.12.36 + 1 MgO
I am in the same situation.
I have already used MaxiBloom alone, not the KISS method .. (without calcium intake)
It lacked N, Ca and Mg
I found the Green House Hybrids, which has a ratio close to Jack's.
Jack's = 3 - 1 - 4
GH Hybrids = 3 - 1,4 - 4,4
Do you think Jack's 321 program is close to GH Hybrid + GH Ca?
No one is talking about Green House fertilizers on IC.
Is that shit or are you boycotting Green House?
For Yara, I only found the red Kristalon not the brown Kristalon.
YaraTera® KRISTALON RED 12.12.36 + 1 MgO
Hey le_toy,
I use:
- phosphoric acid
- calcium nitrate (any brand should do, I don't use yara)
- epsom salt
- MKP
- Kristalon brown
- Microfol Combi (a chelated micro package, you can find it on the site I mentioned)
To achieve the 3-1-4 ratio with calcinit, krista brown & MKP, you can use hydrobuddy or make a spreadsheet. That ratio disagrees with my tap water but if you use ro water you should be good.
The issue with cheap ferts like calcinit/MKP/epsom is shipping cost. Looking at your post history, I gather you are french, you might find a "cooperative agricole" near you, that's where farmers buy their ferts.
I use:
- phosphoric acid
- calcium nitrate (any brand should do, I don't use yara)
- epsom salt
- MKP
- Kristalon brown
- Microfol Combi (a chelated micro package, you can find it on the site I mentioned)
To achieve the 3-1-4 ratio with calcinit, krista brown & MKP, you can use hydrobuddy or make a spreadsheet. That ratio disagrees with my tap water but if you use ro water you should be good.
The issue with cheap ferts like calcinit/MKP/epsom is shipping cost. Looking at your post history, I gather you are french, you might find a "cooperative agricole" near you, that's where farmers buy their ferts.
@ibreza, Thank you for your answer.
I contacted the store from your link, it's 20 € shipping for 25kg .. It's 80 € for 25kg of brown Kristalon, for this price I only have 2.5kg of Green House Hybrids.
On the other hand, the MKP on the store is of the Haifa brand, it is a PK 0 - 52 - 34.
Do I take this one?
How many grams for 10L do you use MICROFOL COMBI?
It is to know if 1kg is sufficient or if it is necessary to take the 10kg.
If I am not mistaken Kristalon maron + Calcinit (1/1), the NPK ratio = 3.6 - 2.2 - 7.6
I am afraid that the K is in too large a quantity and blocks the absorption of other nutrients
No need for Fulvic or Humic?
No Trichoderma?
No Kelp (seaweed)
I have tap water with an EC of 0.2.
I am in Coco with 50% perlite, in DTW.
For Phosphoric acid I use the PH down from Plagron.
I will look with the agricultural cooperatives, but I think you need to have a professional card ..
You are right, i am french ;-)
I guess you are German
I contacted the store from your link, it's 20 € shipping for 25kg .. It's 80 € for 25kg of brown Kristalon, for this price I only have 2.5kg of Green House Hybrids.
On the other hand, the MKP on the store is of the Haifa brand, it is a PK 0 - 52 - 34.
Do I take this one?
How many grams for 10L do you use MICROFOL COMBI?
It is to know if 1kg is sufficient or if it is necessary to take the 10kg.
If I am not mistaken Kristalon maron + Calcinit (1/1), the NPK ratio = 3.6 - 2.2 - 7.6
I am afraid that the K is in too large a quantity and blocks the absorption of other nutrients
No need for Fulvic or Humic?
No Trichoderma?
No Kelp (seaweed)
I have tap water with an EC of 0.2.
I am in Coco with 50% perlite, in DTW.
For Phosphoric acid I use the PH down from Plagron.
I will look with the agricultural cooperatives, but I think you need to have a professional card ..
You are right, i am french ;-)
I guess you are German
ADHDGrower
Member
My Advice would be Kristalon Scarlet and Weissmarke from Yara, they are 7,5-12-36 and 15-5-30. Kristalon Brown has 11% Sulfur(Scarlet is at 4%) which maybe is too high especially if you plan on using Gypsum in your Media(i would).
I never had problems with high k locking out ca/mg but i also didnt use pk boosts heavily and had additional Ca from the Gypsum. Sulfur is actually good to have but can lead to less Molybden been taking up which can lower your growth slightly.
Kristalon Red is a good allrounder but has abit too much Nitrogen(12%) combined with Calcium Nitrate.
Look for a NPK Number similar to Jacks, with low Ammonium and 4-5% S and Mg. I couldnt find anything close with K less then 30% though. In my Experience even in Coco as a Medium which adds even more K over Time i didnt have problems with Lockout from high K. If you have no Gypsum and would feed full strength base + pk boost then i can see someone having some rustspots on their leaves around week 5.
Adding in a quality Fulvic Acid is allways a good Idea, i wouldnt Stress about the Importance of Trichoderma (just dont buy it at the Hydrostore), Seaweed Extract highly depends on its type of Extraction, which affects the Auxin/Cytokinin Ratio, darkbrown acid extractions tend to be higher in Cytokinin.
Green House Feeding has a ridicoulus Prizing, its basicly 12 Times as expensive as something like Kristalon while beeing exactly the same, they aim for an even higher margin then established Companys, greedy as fuck.
I never had problems with high k locking out ca/mg but i also didnt use pk boosts heavily and had additional Ca from the Gypsum. Sulfur is actually good to have but can lead to less Molybden been taking up which can lower your growth slightly.
Kristalon Red is a good allrounder but has abit too much Nitrogen(12%) combined with Calcium Nitrate.
Look for a NPK Number similar to Jacks, with low Ammonium and 4-5% S and Mg. I couldnt find anything close with K less then 30% though. In my Experience even in Coco as a Medium which adds even more K over Time i didnt have problems with Lockout from high K. If you have no Gypsum and would feed full strength base + pk boost then i can see someone having some rustspots on their leaves around week 5.
Adding in a quality Fulvic Acid is allways a good Idea, i wouldnt Stress about the Importance of Trichoderma (just dont buy it at the Hydrostore), Seaweed Extract highly depends on its type of Extraction, which affects the Auxin/Cytokinin Ratio, darkbrown acid extractions tend to be higher in Cytokinin.
Green House Feeding has a ridicoulus Prizing, its basicly 12 Times as expensive as something like Kristalon while beeing exactly the same, they aim for an even higher margin then established Companys, greedy as fuck.
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@ADHDGrower Thank you.
If I understand correctly you advise me to take the Kristalon Scarlet and the Kristalon Weissmarke.
Kristalon Scarlet, will be for flowering and Kristalon Weissmarke for growth?
the Kristalon Weissmarke has a ratio of 3 - 1 - 6, no nitrogen required
Kristalon Scarlet has a Ration of 2.5 - 4 - 9
Or is it Kristalon Scarlet or Kristalon Weissmarke?
With the brown Krisalon, I intended to use calcium nitrate for the supply of Calcium and Nitrogen, and if necessary the epsom salt for the magnesium and the sulfur
If I use Gypsum, since there is no nitrogen I must have a base that contains sufficient nitrogen.
For Trichoderma, I know the Promot, a cheap German product.
Do you have any product to advise me for good quality and inexpensive fulvic and humic?
If I understand correctly you advise me to take the Kristalon Scarlet and the Kristalon Weissmarke.
Kristalon Scarlet, will be for flowering and Kristalon Weissmarke for growth?
the Kristalon Weissmarke has a ratio of 3 - 1 - 6, no nitrogen required
Kristalon Scarlet has a Ration of 2.5 - 4 - 9
Or is it Kristalon Scarlet or Kristalon Weissmarke?
With the brown Krisalon, I intended to use calcium nitrate for the supply of Calcium and Nitrogen, and if necessary the epsom salt for the magnesium and the sulfur
If I use Gypsum, since there is no nitrogen I must have a base that contains sufficient nitrogen.
For Trichoderma, I know the Promot, a cheap German product.
Do you have any product to advise me for good quality and inexpensive fulvic and humic?
ADHDGrower
Member
Ídeally you would buy both for Growth and Flower but you could also get by using just the Azure if you do use Calcium Nitrate and have other N Sources you can add, like Amino Acids. I would advise to use both Calcium Nitrate and Gypsum at the same time. I would lower the Amount late in Flower.
For Fulvic try finding a a shop that sells lower Amounts of Fulvital WSP 80, like Düngerexperte. May not be worlds best fulvic but seems to work just fine and is inexpensive. If you have Promot WP Trichoderma then you have the right product in therms of value.
@le_toy, I'm french too that's why I suggested buying ferts at a coop. you need a card to buy controlled substances like ammonium nitrate, but the guy at my coop had no problem selling me a few bags.
Before thinking about fulvic/humic/kelp and other additives, I would get the basics right. It took me some time to find the sweet spot and grow some healthy plants. I'm not sure adding more complexity from the start is going to get you better results.
whatever PK+micro you end up using, it's always good to have some mkp, epsom and a micro package on hand to fix deficiencies.
Before thinking about fulvic/humic/kelp and other additives, I would get the basics right. It took me some time to find the sweet spot and grow some healthy plants. I'm not sure adding more complexity from the start is going to get you better results.
whatever PK+micro you end up using, it's always good to have some mkp, epsom and a micro package on hand to fix deficiencies.
I called some Coop near my home.
I found the Plantin brand, and it is available from:
Plantin FERTI 02
Nitrogen (N) Total: 12.00%
Of which 8.3% Ammoniacal nitrogen
3.7% Nitric nitrogen
Phosphoric anhydride (P2O5): 32.00%
Potassium oxide (K2O): 10.00%
Magnesium oxide (MgO): 4.5%
Sulfuric anhydride (SO3): 9.0%
Trace elements :
Boron (B): 0.0250%
Copper (Cu): 0.0030%
Iron (Fe) EDTA: 0.0500%
Manganese (Mn): 0.0600%
Molybdenum (Mo): 0.0030%
Zinc (Zn) EDTA: 0.0150%
Plantin FERTI 08
Nitrogen (N) Total: 8.00%
Of which 8.0% Nitric nitrogen
Phosphoric anhydride (P2O5): 12.00%
Potassium Oxide (K2O): 36.00%
Magnesium oxide (MgO): 4.0%
Sulfuric anhydride (SO3): 8.5%
Trace elements :
Boron (B): 0.0250%
Copper (Cu): 0.0030%
Manganese (Mn): 0.0600%
Molybdenum (Mo): 0.0030%
Zinc (Zn): 0.0150%
Plantin FERTI 11
Nitrogen (N) Total: 16.00%
Of which 5.5% Ammoniacal nitrogen
10.5% Nitric nitrogen
Phosphoric anhydride (P2O5): 10.00%
Potassium Oxide (K2O): 24.00%
Magnesium oxide (MgO): 3.0%
Sulfuric anhydride (SO3): 6.0%
Trace elements :
Boron (B): 0.0250%
Copper (Cu): 0.0030%
Iron (Fe) EDDHA: 0.0500%
Manganese (Mn): 0.0600%
Molybdenum (Mo): 0.0030%
Zinc (Zn): 0.0150%
they have Nitrat decalcium Yara
N - Ca
15.5 - 26.5
I learned 10 years ago, a rule for the ratio of PK for flowering:
Beginning of flowering = 2P / 1K
Flowering medium = 1P / 1K
End of flowering = 1P / 2K
If I follow this ratio with the Plantin brand, it could give something like this:
Growth = Plantin FERTI 11
Stresh = Plantin FERTI 11
Beginning of flowering = Plantin FERTI 08
Flowering medium = Plantin FERTI 08 + Plantin FERTI 02 (50/50)
End of flowering = Plantin FERTI 02
I wonder if it is necessary to have the same ratio as Jack's Nutrient?
I found the Plantin brand, and it is available from:
Plantin FERTI 02
Nitrogen (N) Total: 12.00%
Of which 8.3% Ammoniacal nitrogen
3.7% Nitric nitrogen
Phosphoric anhydride (P2O5): 32.00%
Potassium oxide (K2O): 10.00%
Magnesium oxide (MgO): 4.5%
Sulfuric anhydride (SO3): 9.0%
Trace elements :
Boron (B): 0.0250%
Copper (Cu): 0.0030%
Iron (Fe) EDTA: 0.0500%
Manganese (Mn): 0.0600%
Molybdenum (Mo): 0.0030%
Zinc (Zn) EDTA: 0.0150%
Plantin FERTI 08
Nitrogen (N) Total: 8.00%
Of which 8.0% Nitric nitrogen
Phosphoric anhydride (P2O5): 12.00%
Potassium Oxide (K2O): 36.00%
Magnesium oxide (MgO): 4.0%
Sulfuric anhydride (SO3): 8.5%
Trace elements :
Boron (B): 0.0250%
Copper (Cu): 0.0030%
Manganese (Mn): 0.0600%
Molybdenum (Mo): 0.0030%
Zinc (Zn): 0.0150%
Plantin FERTI 11
Nitrogen (N) Total: 16.00%
Of which 5.5% Ammoniacal nitrogen
10.5% Nitric nitrogen
Phosphoric anhydride (P2O5): 10.00%
Potassium Oxide (K2O): 24.00%
Magnesium oxide (MgO): 3.0%
Sulfuric anhydride (SO3): 6.0%
Trace elements :
Boron (B): 0.0250%
Copper (Cu): 0.0030%
Iron (Fe) EDDHA: 0.0500%
Manganese (Mn): 0.0600%
Molybdenum (Mo): 0.0030%
Zinc (Zn): 0.0150%
they have Nitrat decalcium Yara
N - Ca
15.5 - 26.5
I learned 10 years ago, a rule for the ratio of PK for flowering:
Beginning of flowering = 2P / 1K
Flowering medium = 1P / 1K
End of flowering = 1P / 2K
If I follow this ratio with the Plantin brand, it could give something like this:
Growth = Plantin FERTI 11
Stresh = Plantin FERTI 11
Beginning of flowering = Plantin FERTI 08
Flowering medium = Plantin FERTI 08 + Plantin FERTI 02 (50/50)
End of flowering = Plantin FERTI 02
I wonder if it is necessary to have the same ratio as Jack's Nutrient?
