hey doneit, read this too about spores
Here is testimonial experience from the original slime club thread years ago.
09-16-2007, 06:54 PM #117
richyrich
Yup, this is turning out to be quite a club. I never thought so many people would be experiencing the same problem. Before I got control of it, I thought I was the only person cursed with it. For years I searched for answers and was always given the same ol' root rot deal and what to do for it.
I have no problems and everything is quite easy for me now. Though, I am still interested in finding a way to beat the brown algae with beneficials. So far all the ones sold by hydro companies don't do squat crap. What bacterias are you speaking of. I too have looked toward aquarium and aquaponics chat boards for answers. Didn't really find anything to beat it off. Such as beneficial bacterias fending off bad bacteria (root rot). I just went after complete neutralization with Physan20 or containment with Zone.
Keep us posted on your work. This algae still intrigues me.
10-30-2007, 05:04 PM #172
richyrich
I'll give you my thoughts on Hygrozyme.
The product breaks down materials and makes them available to the plants. I've noticed that dead root parts and leaves that fell in my rez's in the past would disappear into a sludge like substance. This was the Hygrozyme in action, breaking stuff down. Now, from what I have previously said about being careful with organics fueling the algae, the Hygrozyme is breaking down the materials which are organic and feeding the algae. Then boom algae explosion with all the new found organic food. That is my theory on it.
I only use Hyrozyme in soil now or feed to waste only. You do not want to use it in a re-circulating rez.
02-28-2008, 02:06 AM #203
richyrich
I haven't been here for a while but I previously posted a lot on this subject earlier. If you read trough all of my posts with pictures you will see all the hell I went through and I tried a lot of things over 2 years. Do you want to know what to do now. I have been bit by the hydro herpes as I call it and there is a 90% chance you will never get rid of the spores at your location. Here it is.
You need to go to feed to waste with a medium of your choice. This is what I do now and I have pearly white fuzzy roots. What a change of pace for once. It was rough trying to figure out what the hell was happening but I did figure it out once I ran into this post. One person early on mentioned algae and I started to research heavily. I found most of the info in aquarium chat rooms. That is when I found that it was a brown algae and not the typical blue-green variety that needs light. Brown algae don't need no light. An arduous journey it was for me and now it is over finally.
You are infected with the hydro herp. I recommend no more recirculating resevoirs. Use at your risk. Go feed to waste and then the plants cannot infect each other.
01-07-2008, 09:24 PM #184
richyrich
Algae problems will make the ph go up. "Root Rot" meaning caused by bad bacteria or fungi will make your ph go down. Both types of problems will make your roots brown and dead. Zone is a great product, but if your temps are not in range you will still have problems. What are your exact water temps? No guesses. I use a little $10 digital aquarium thermometer to take readings.
Glad to see that a lot of you guys are benefiting from this.
I have changed my style to organic hydro. Coco, peat moss and perlite blends with organic bottled nutes. I feed them just like if I were growing in soil. Feed to waste and I don't have to worry about water temps or any kind of algae, bacteria or fungi problems. I could hit myself over the head for not changing up my style a long time ago. I find this way to be so much easier and yields are up to par.
Even though I know how to beat every plague now, my garden is forever infested with algae spores. I cannot go back to straight hydro. It's just like getting mold or pm. Read the threads about how they can never get rid of it after they get it. It's the spores.
04-01-2008, 01:22 PM #222
richyrich
An endospore is a dormant, tough, and non-reproductive structure produced by a small number of bacteria from the Firmicute phylum. The primary function of most endospores is to ensure the survival of a bacterium through periods of environmental stress. They are therefore resistant to ultraviolet and gamma radiation, desiccation, lysozyme, temperature, starvation, and chemical disinfectants. Endospores are commonly found in soil and water, where they may survive for long periods of time. Some bacteria produce exospores or cysts instead.
That is why I have said once you get it you will always have it. At least, in the same room or place. Once infected you cannot get rid of the spores. I tried and I tried and if you read back you will see me saying this. Feed to waste is the only way after that if you want no hassles. Otherwise, you will always be just containing it with other measures such as Zone. All of my trial and error concluded that Zone was the best containment product but I still had hassles.
04-02-2008, 11:06 AM #227
richyrich
It could get rid of it but so does H202 and other things. But those spores you know. Evolved over millions to billions of years to stand up to anything as previously posted. Somebody find me a way to kill spores short of a nuclear bomb. I doubt that may even work. Can't a cockroach survive the bomb?
04-06-2008, 12:10 PM #235
jarff
Man RR you are doing your homework but to say the least it is a bit over my head,but I do get the jest of it. A catch-22.to say the least.It seems one would have to throw everything out and start a-fresh.
04-06-2008, 06:53 PM #236
richyrich
Thanks for the kind words. Talking about throwing everything away and starting new; I think that would have to include tossing the place your growing at too. lol. This cyanobacteria is some of the first living things to live on this earth. It is indistructable. I am gonna have to completely understand it to defeat it or keep it away at best. After a little bit of research, again, I think I found my problems which I posted last. I am gonna have to experiment to rule out my new theories. I would love to go back to hydro. At one point I only had to go in the bloom room once a week. Talk about easy street. When I got slimed it has been years of work.
But, I am in no rush. I am tired of dealing with this stuff but willing to still fight it.
12-12-2008, 07:39 PM #302
NFTNate
Richy ive read this whole thread probably 3 times and I'm amazed at the lengths you went to fix this with no cure. Are the people of ICMAG going to give up on this issue? I know when I was joined with OG they would never let a grower down! We need mass brain power! READ THIS THREAD PEOPLE! I dont want to go back to soil. We need a scientist to help us out here. I know there has to be someone that knows the proper CURE for this shit. I will post pics of my encounter with this alien algae to help.
12-13-2008, 12:31 PM #304
richyrich
I'm afraid there is no cure. Prevention is a must always but once you get it, what to do? Physan20 to to erradicate what is present and then Dutch Master Zone to keep it at bay once it comes right back. All my trials led me to this solution. And to tell the truth I was still not happy with that but it was the best I could do.
I spoke of it in earlier threads but I have not tried it yet because I have semi-retired from growing. Since I moved to soil previously, more specifically organics, I learned a lot about beneficial bacteria, fungi and etc.. I have yet to try to battle the hydro herpe with beneficials in hydro the right way. I believe the way to do it would be to have your rez primed with beneficials that would not allow the slime algae a chance at getting a foot hold. You would have to seed the rez with the right beneficials, feed them properly and let it prime for 2 weeks before introducing any plants to the system. Rez change outs would be very different. I have done it in the past with success. I would probably start by just doing add backs, water and nutes. No complete change outs. You would be dumping your beneficials and then you know who's gonna come slime you. Then I would try partial change outs. Maybe dump half and add back half. That way you still have a large colony of beneficials to fend off the herp. Anyway, that is what I was thinking for my next round for when ever that may be.
01-31-2009, 06:38 PM #309
richyrich
It's been 6 weeks since I last posted so thought I'd give you all an update on what I have been doing. As I posted in the past I had gone to soil. Well since then I next finally starting playing with coco.
I have to say I am amazed with the stuff. As I read somebody else post they were koo koo for coco, so am I. The stuff is really amazing. It is nearly impossible to over water unlike soil and the growth is just as fast as hydro. I have been doing a small hand watered grow and have learned that the ppms and ph need to be treated just like hydro. The roots are so white and appear to look like hydro roots instead of soil roots. This stuff blows soil away. Its all feed to waste so you never have to worry about our friend the hydro herpe, brown slime algae. And you get hydro results. If you just cant beat the hydro herpe I highly suggest switching to coco feed to waste. You will not be sorry. The next thing I have to work on is making this auto with a drip type set up.
02-03-2009, 08:31 PM #314
richyrich
There is nothing that will get rid of it. You can kill it but it will be back. And if you do get rid of it you will always worry about if it will come back because it most likely will. Once you get herpes you always have it and it will flare up whenever. And that is not from personal experience, lol.
RO water or tap don't matter. It seems as if one day a spore just decided to take a swim in your reservoir and multiply. Then you are done. You soon have a room full of microscopic spores. There is no way to get rid of them. I even tried an ozone generator in the room to kill spores. I concede that there is no way to kill off one of the first inhabitants of this earth. There is a reason it has survived since the beginning of time here.
Organic, sugar and enzyme products make the herpe explode on a food binge.
Physan20 kills it completely but it will come back. Water temps don't matter. H2O2, SM90, etc... help a little but are basically useless. Dutch Master Zone is the only product that keeps it at bay best but it is still not gone. It's there just waiting to take over.
The only way to run hydro once you have the hydro herpe is to ditch the recirculating reservoirs!!! You have to go feed to waste. Other options are soil and coco.
That's a recap on everything I have posted on my years of battling this. It is futile and if you are insisting on battling it I wish you the best of luck. If you read this whole thread you will find most of my journey and all trial and tribulations to this battle. I LOST in the end. Word from the wise and hopefully this thread helps a lot of people because when I started I could find nothing on this issue. Everyone said it was root rot which is far from the truth.
05-16-2009, 03:48 PM #386
richyrich
Update.
Day 14 UV Reservoir Sterilization:
Healthy plants and pearly white roots. No sign of slime. No raises in ph indicative of slime.
05-21-2009, 12:59 AM #404
ItsGrowTime
Speaking of which, Im convinced that the slime is in the tap water. I notice the slime issue in the summer months only and of course that is when lakes (source of mine and many other people's tap water) start their algae blooms. During the winter its too cold for the algae to bloom so it's not a problem then. The spores make their way through the purification process and end up in our reservoirs, ready to rock on their newfound food source (res nutes).
07-06-2009, 01:51 AM #486
richyrich
Yes, no slime at all with the UV sterlizer in the reservoir. I few pages back in this thread a poster brought up the Sunleaves brand unit and I bought it to try. I was thinking why not, I had tried most things in the past. So far, still good. I would of been slimed long ago.
As far as which is better, I can't make that call yet until I am done. Growth is just as rigorous as can be expected in hydro, though. So far, both ways are working great and I have to say it's about time.
07-22-2009, 04:43 AM #514
richyrich
This is why the self inflicted pythium will not go away. The UV does not offer protection to my roots that are above the rez in a seperate flood tray. The pythium started on the dead dried out roots and spread to colonize itself to the entire root mass. It is clinging to the roots so it will never make itself to the rez to be zapped by the UV. I wasn't planning on getting pythium, but mistakes happen. Don't get pythium and the UV should take you all the way. The reason UV works for the slime is because it likes to colonize itself in a water environment like a rez. With a UV going in the rez, no slime as I have documented.
09-07-2009, 10:41 PM #645
richyrich
No UV on my RO filter. I'm not 100% sure that a UV on the RO filter would be effective at killing spores. All the research I did and posted on this way back concluded that the spores pretty much live through anything; even the bombardment of UV radiation. The only options I have found effective once infected are UV in the rez to destroy the slime once it becomes active from its spore state and beneficial microbes as a combative measure.
I agree, benes should not be killed off with the use of a UV sterilizer; but only after the bene microbes have established a foothold in the hydro system.
10-15-2009, 12:42 PM #706
richyrich
You will not be disappointed with the coco. Oh yeah!, DWC is the fastest I ever grew, too. Was my first system. Coco is good though and absolutely no worries about the slime. Do a search on Pico's manifold for a drip system for your coco. It will make things much easier instead of hand watering. Hook it up to a pump and cycle timer and you can walk away for days. Much luck growing.
06-16-2010, 06:44 PM #1028
ItsGrowTime
It looks like my combination of RO filtering and UV sterilization has worked to clean my res water of all nasties, including the slime algae! My roots have never been so white! Want to rid yourself of the stuff forever? RO and UV.
07-04-2010, 01:14 PM #1068
ItsGrowTime
Good luck! Im sure it will fix your problem for good. Just remember to never addback any water that didn't run through the UV first.
05-08-2011, 11:07 PM #1178
ItsGrowTime
UV has worked for me to clear up the slime issue. All my plant water goes through the UV before it comes near my girls.
UV has worked for me to clear up the slime issue.
08-03-2012, 03:28 AM #1204
ItsGrowTime
Im still slime free after running all tap water through a 3 stage RO and a UV sterilizer AND adding heavy amounts of Physan20 to the fresh water and the res every few days (250gallons total volume). Bleach for cleaning out the system. No water touches my roots until it's been cleaned. No more slime.
Here is testimonial experience from the original slime club thread years ago.
09-16-2007, 06:54 PM #117
richyrich
Yup, this is turning out to be quite a club. I never thought so many people would be experiencing the same problem. Before I got control of it, I thought I was the only person cursed with it. For years I searched for answers and was always given the same ol' root rot deal and what to do for it.
I have no problems and everything is quite easy for me now. Though, I am still interested in finding a way to beat the brown algae with beneficials. So far all the ones sold by hydro companies don't do squat crap. What bacterias are you speaking of. I too have looked toward aquarium and aquaponics chat boards for answers. Didn't really find anything to beat it off. Such as beneficial bacterias fending off bad bacteria (root rot). I just went after complete neutralization with Physan20 or containment with Zone.
Keep us posted on your work. This algae still intrigues me.
10-30-2007, 05:04 PM #172
richyrich
I'll give you my thoughts on Hygrozyme.
The product breaks down materials and makes them available to the plants. I've noticed that dead root parts and leaves that fell in my rez's in the past would disappear into a sludge like substance. This was the Hygrozyme in action, breaking stuff down. Now, from what I have previously said about being careful with organics fueling the algae, the Hygrozyme is breaking down the materials which are organic and feeding the algae. Then boom algae explosion with all the new found organic food. That is my theory on it.
I only use Hyrozyme in soil now or feed to waste only. You do not want to use it in a re-circulating rez.
02-28-2008, 02:06 AM #203
richyrich
I haven't been here for a while but I previously posted a lot on this subject earlier. If you read trough all of my posts with pictures you will see all the hell I went through and I tried a lot of things over 2 years. Do you want to know what to do now. I have been bit by the hydro herpes as I call it and there is a 90% chance you will never get rid of the spores at your location. Here it is.
You need to go to feed to waste with a medium of your choice. This is what I do now and I have pearly white fuzzy roots. What a change of pace for once. It was rough trying to figure out what the hell was happening but I did figure it out once I ran into this post. One person early on mentioned algae and I started to research heavily. I found most of the info in aquarium chat rooms. That is when I found that it was a brown algae and not the typical blue-green variety that needs light. Brown algae don't need no light. An arduous journey it was for me and now it is over finally.
You are infected with the hydro herp. I recommend no more recirculating resevoirs. Use at your risk. Go feed to waste and then the plants cannot infect each other.
01-07-2008, 09:24 PM #184
richyrich
Algae problems will make the ph go up. "Root Rot" meaning caused by bad bacteria or fungi will make your ph go down. Both types of problems will make your roots brown and dead. Zone is a great product, but if your temps are not in range you will still have problems. What are your exact water temps? No guesses. I use a little $10 digital aquarium thermometer to take readings.
Glad to see that a lot of you guys are benefiting from this.
I have changed my style to organic hydro. Coco, peat moss and perlite blends with organic bottled nutes. I feed them just like if I were growing in soil. Feed to waste and I don't have to worry about water temps or any kind of algae, bacteria or fungi problems. I could hit myself over the head for not changing up my style a long time ago. I find this way to be so much easier and yields are up to par.
Even though I know how to beat every plague now, my garden is forever infested with algae spores. I cannot go back to straight hydro. It's just like getting mold or pm. Read the threads about how they can never get rid of it after they get it. It's the spores.
04-01-2008, 01:22 PM #222
richyrich
An endospore is a dormant, tough, and non-reproductive structure produced by a small number of bacteria from the Firmicute phylum. The primary function of most endospores is to ensure the survival of a bacterium through periods of environmental stress. They are therefore resistant to ultraviolet and gamma radiation, desiccation, lysozyme, temperature, starvation, and chemical disinfectants. Endospores are commonly found in soil and water, where they may survive for long periods of time. Some bacteria produce exospores or cysts instead.
That is why I have said once you get it you will always have it. At least, in the same room or place. Once infected you cannot get rid of the spores. I tried and I tried and if you read back you will see me saying this. Feed to waste is the only way after that if you want no hassles. Otherwise, you will always be just containing it with other measures such as Zone. All of my trial and error concluded that Zone was the best containment product but I still had hassles.
04-02-2008, 11:06 AM #227
richyrich
It could get rid of it but so does H202 and other things. But those spores you know. Evolved over millions to billions of years to stand up to anything as previously posted. Somebody find me a way to kill spores short of a nuclear bomb. I doubt that may even work. Can't a cockroach survive the bomb?
04-06-2008, 12:10 PM #235
jarff
Man RR you are doing your homework but to say the least it is a bit over my head,but I do get the jest of it. A catch-22.to say the least.It seems one would have to throw everything out and start a-fresh.
04-06-2008, 06:53 PM #236
richyrich
Thanks for the kind words. Talking about throwing everything away and starting new; I think that would have to include tossing the place your growing at too. lol. This cyanobacteria is some of the first living things to live on this earth. It is indistructable. I am gonna have to completely understand it to defeat it or keep it away at best. After a little bit of research, again, I think I found my problems which I posted last. I am gonna have to experiment to rule out my new theories. I would love to go back to hydro. At one point I only had to go in the bloom room once a week. Talk about easy street. When I got slimed it has been years of work.
But, I am in no rush. I am tired of dealing with this stuff but willing to still fight it.
12-12-2008, 07:39 PM #302
NFTNate
Richy ive read this whole thread probably 3 times and I'm amazed at the lengths you went to fix this with no cure. Are the people of ICMAG going to give up on this issue? I know when I was joined with OG they would never let a grower down! We need mass brain power! READ THIS THREAD PEOPLE! I dont want to go back to soil. We need a scientist to help us out here. I know there has to be someone that knows the proper CURE for this shit. I will post pics of my encounter with this alien algae to help.
12-13-2008, 12:31 PM #304
richyrich
I'm afraid there is no cure. Prevention is a must always but once you get it, what to do? Physan20 to to erradicate what is present and then Dutch Master Zone to keep it at bay once it comes right back. All my trials led me to this solution. And to tell the truth I was still not happy with that but it was the best I could do.
I spoke of it in earlier threads but I have not tried it yet because I have semi-retired from growing. Since I moved to soil previously, more specifically organics, I learned a lot about beneficial bacteria, fungi and etc.. I have yet to try to battle the hydro herpe with beneficials in hydro the right way. I believe the way to do it would be to have your rez primed with beneficials that would not allow the slime algae a chance at getting a foot hold. You would have to seed the rez with the right beneficials, feed them properly and let it prime for 2 weeks before introducing any plants to the system. Rez change outs would be very different. I have done it in the past with success. I would probably start by just doing add backs, water and nutes. No complete change outs. You would be dumping your beneficials and then you know who's gonna come slime you. Then I would try partial change outs. Maybe dump half and add back half. That way you still have a large colony of beneficials to fend off the herp. Anyway, that is what I was thinking for my next round for when ever that may be.
01-31-2009, 06:38 PM #309
richyrich
It's been 6 weeks since I last posted so thought I'd give you all an update on what I have been doing. As I posted in the past I had gone to soil. Well since then I next finally starting playing with coco.
I have to say I am amazed with the stuff. As I read somebody else post they were koo koo for coco, so am I. The stuff is really amazing. It is nearly impossible to over water unlike soil and the growth is just as fast as hydro. I have been doing a small hand watered grow and have learned that the ppms and ph need to be treated just like hydro. The roots are so white and appear to look like hydro roots instead of soil roots. This stuff blows soil away. Its all feed to waste so you never have to worry about our friend the hydro herpe, brown slime algae. And you get hydro results. If you just cant beat the hydro herpe I highly suggest switching to coco feed to waste. You will not be sorry. The next thing I have to work on is making this auto with a drip type set up.
02-03-2009, 08:31 PM #314
richyrich
There is nothing that will get rid of it. You can kill it but it will be back. And if you do get rid of it you will always worry about if it will come back because it most likely will. Once you get herpes you always have it and it will flare up whenever. And that is not from personal experience, lol.
RO water or tap don't matter. It seems as if one day a spore just decided to take a swim in your reservoir and multiply. Then you are done. You soon have a room full of microscopic spores. There is no way to get rid of them. I even tried an ozone generator in the room to kill spores. I concede that there is no way to kill off one of the first inhabitants of this earth. There is a reason it has survived since the beginning of time here.
Organic, sugar and enzyme products make the herpe explode on a food binge.
Physan20 kills it completely but it will come back. Water temps don't matter. H2O2, SM90, etc... help a little but are basically useless. Dutch Master Zone is the only product that keeps it at bay best but it is still not gone. It's there just waiting to take over.
The only way to run hydro once you have the hydro herpe is to ditch the recirculating reservoirs!!! You have to go feed to waste. Other options are soil and coco.
That's a recap on everything I have posted on my years of battling this. It is futile and if you are insisting on battling it I wish you the best of luck. If you read this whole thread you will find most of my journey and all trial and tribulations to this battle. I LOST in the end. Word from the wise and hopefully this thread helps a lot of people because when I started I could find nothing on this issue. Everyone said it was root rot which is far from the truth.
05-16-2009, 03:48 PM #386
richyrich
Update.
Day 14 UV Reservoir Sterilization:
Healthy plants and pearly white roots. No sign of slime. No raises in ph indicative of slime.
05-21-2009, 12:59 AM #404
ItsGrowTime
Speaking of which, Im convinced that the slime is in the tap water. I notice the slime issue in the summer months only and of course that is when lakes (source of mine and many other people's tap water) start their algae blooms. During the winter its too cold for the algae to bloom so it's not a problem then. The spores make their way through the purification process and end up in our reservoirs, ready to rock on their newfound food source (res nutes).
07-06-2009, 01:51 AM #486
richyrich
Yes, no slime at all with the UV sterlizer in the reservoir. I few pages back in this thread a poster brought up the Sunleaves brand unit and I bought it to try. I was thinking why not, I had tried most things in the past. So far, still good. I would of been slimed long ago.
As far as which is better, I can't make that call yet until I am done. Growth is just as rigorous as can be expected in hydro, though. So far, both ways are working great and I have to say it's about time.
07-22-2009, 04:43 AM #514
richyrich
This is why the self inflicted pythium will not go away. The UV does not offer protection to my roots that are above the rez in a seperate flood tray. The pythium started on the dead dried out roots and spread to colonize itself to the entire root mass. It is clinging to the roots so it will never make itself to the rez to be zapped by the UV. I wasn't planning on getting pythium, but mistakes happen. Don't get pythium and the UV should take you all the way. The reason UV works for the slime is because it likes to colonize itself in a water environment like a rez. With a UV going in the rez, no slime as I have documented.
09-07-2009, 10:41 PM #645
richyrich
No UV on my RO filter. I'm not 100% sure that a UV on the RO filter would be effective at killing spores. All the research I did and posted on this way back concluded that the spores pretty much live through anything; even the bombardment of UV radiation. The only options I have found effective once infected are UV in the rez to destroy the slime once it becomes active from its spore state and beneficial microbes as a combative measure.
I agree, benes should not be killed off with the use of a UV sterilizer; but only after the bene microbes have established a foothold in the hydro system.
10-15-2009, 12:42 PM #706
richyrich
You will not be disappointed with the coco. Oh yeah!, DWC is the fastest I ever grew, too. Was my first system. Coco is good though and absolutely no worries about the slime. Do a search on Pico's manifold for a drip system for your coco. It will make things much easier instead of hand watering. Hook it up to a pump and cycle timer and you can walk away for days. Much luck growing.
06-16-2010, 06:44 PM #1028
ItsGrowTime
It looks like my combination of RO filtering and UV sterilization has worked to clean my res water of all nasties, including the slime algae! My roots have never been so white! Want to rid yourself of the stuff forever? RO and UV.
07-04-2010, 01:14 PM #1068
ItsGrowTime
Good luck! Im sure it will fix your problem for good. Just remember to never addback any water that didn't run through the UV first.
05-08-2011, 11:07 PM #1178
ItsGrowTime
UV has worked for me to clear up the slime issue. All my plant water goes through the UV before it comes near my girls.
UV has worked for me to clear up the slime issue.
08-03-2012, 03:28 AM #1204
ItsGrowTime
Im still slime free after running all tap water through a 3 stage RO and a UV sterilizer AND adding heavy amounts of Physan20 to the fresh water and the res every few days (250gallons total volume). Bleach for cleaning out the system. No water touches my roots until it's been cleaned. No more slime.
