Red Oil

Nickog · May 16, 2010

I found this method for making Red Oil. Anyone ever heard of this? Does this make sense to anyone? I have the NaOH and HCl in my work lab. I don't have the petroleum ether. Any suggestions?

- dry, grind and soak material in 91% (or higher) isopropyl alcohol for three days.
- strain and filter, saving alcohol/oil mixture.
- evaporate off alcohol down to ~ 250 - 300 ml of alcohol/oil mixture.
- extract alcohol/oil mixture w/ petroleum ether three times.
* extract = placing two solutions in a separatory funnel, mixing thoroughly, and allowing the two phases to separate...
--- given petroleum ether & alcohol >> (petroleum ether on top) (alcohol on bottom)
--- given petroleum ether & NaOH soln >> (petroleum ether on top) (NaOH soln on bottom). same for petroleum ether and acidified NaOH solution.
* to make the NaOH solution - mix 40 mg of pure NaOH pellets into 500 ml of distilled water until dissolved thoroughly. then add 500 ml of absolute grain alcohol (everclear), yielding ~ 1 liter of the sodium hydroxide solution.
* white gas can be substituted for pet ether (verified) muriatic acid (swimming pools) can be substituted for HCl (verified) lye can be substituted for NaOH (verified).

abnormalgrowers · Jun 2, 2010

try and show

Green Supreme · Jun 2, 2010

Another not grease thread in the hash forum. Please, solvent based resins are not hash. Peace GS

Gray Wolf · Jun 2, 2010

Nickog said:
I found this method for making Red Oil. Anyone ever heard of this? Does this make sense to anyone? I have the NaOH and HCl in my work lab. I don't have the petroleum ether. Any suggestions?

- dry, grind and soak material in 91% (or higher) isopropyl alcohol for three days.
- strain and filter, saving alcohol/oil mixture.
- evaporate off alcohol down to ~ 250 - 300 ml of alcohol/oil mixture.
- extract alcohol/oil mixture w/ petroleum ether three times.
* extract = placing two solutions in a separatory funnel, mixing thoroughly, and allowing the two phases to separate...
--- given petroleum ether & alcohol >> (petroleum ether on top) (alcohol on bottom)
--- given petroleum ether & NaOH soln >> (petroleum ether on top) (NaOH soln on bottom). same for petroleum ether and acidified NaOH solution.
* to make the NaOH solution - mix 40 mg of pure NaOH pellets into 500 ml of distilled water until dissolved thoroughly. then add 500 ml of absolute grain alcohol (everclear), yielding ~ 1 liter of the sodium hydroxide solution.
* white gas can be substituted for pet ether (verified) muriatic acid (swimming pools) can be substituted for HCl (verified) lye can be substituted for NaOH (verified).

You seem to be missing a step. I have done alcohol extractions with a hexane wash, but not using sodium hydroxide. Your recipe doesn't spell out what you do with it or the hydrochloric acid? Is there more?

GW

Nickog · Jun 2, 2010

Gray Wolf said:
You seem to be missing a step. I have done alcohol extractions with a hexane wash, but not using sodium hydroxide. Your recipe doesn't spell out what you do with it or the hydrochloric acid? Is there more?

GW

I have to find where I got this from and see if I missed something.

Nickog · Jun 2, 2010

Green Supreme said:
Another not grease thread in the hash forum. Please, solvent based resins are not hash. Peace GS

Perhaps in the purest form, solvent resins are not hash, but it seems like everyone calls these hash.

Nickog · Jun 2, 2010

Anyone know of what the best book on making hash/concentrates is? There are many but I only need one!

Gray Wolf · Jun 2, 2010

Nickog said:
I have to find where I got this from and see if I missed something.

Off the web:

1) completely dry and grind material to a powder. soak material in petroleum ether for several hours, but less than 24 hours. strain, saving the pet ether/oil mixture... pressing out the material thoroughly to get as much solvent/oil out of the material as possible. filter the solvent/oil mixture through a coffee filter.
2) extract pet ether/oil mixture w/ an ~ 4% sodium hydroxide (NaOH) in alcohol solution three times.
3) acidify the NaOH/oil mixture w/ HCl (diluted 2:1 or 3:1 with distilled water) to pH 3. filter the acidified mixture through a coffee filter.
4) extract acidified mixture w/ pet ether three times. evaporate off pet ether to yield red honey oil!

desert fox · Jun 3, 2010

Nickog said:
Anyone know of what the best book on making hash/concentrates is? There are many but I only need one!

The book "dELETED" has a chapter about separating like you described. Its pretty cheap used. Its not directly geared for making hash, but its helps put the pieces things as a guide for different types of separation. Just don't learn too many pointer and go making meth now. Keep it green...but if you go all scientific, and find a way to make oil extract actually rock up....Well I may have found a new hero.

RNDZL · Jun 3, 2010

Before transitioning to water hash I had done solvent extractions

the best book on the subject imho is still d.golds cannabis alchemy

now solvent hash is dangerous and many of those solvents have much lower flash points

I don't know if you have lab access or lab access and working chemisty knowledge

i did not and simply toos instructions from D.Golds book, but he also uses complete chemistry technology that was difficult for me to digest initially

i don't advocate solvents due to the inherent dangers but ill share my experience with the red oil

certain copies have notes from hash makers of colonial times and they were able to produce red oils using only ethanol as a solvent, simple heating under pressure was the catalyst but it was a for a very long time (for heating alcohol under pressure)

I had limited my production of solvents to ethanol because of the relatively high flash point and the fact grain alcohol (everclear) doesn't pose the same toxicity if you poorly purge, but is in fact quite easy to purge it in its entirety

I had produced a red oil from one of the many runs I had done, it was from Mexican "mids" and toking it was insane. It took well over 36 hours at a precise temp (178 degrees I believe it was a long time ago)

took a while for it to build up 20-30 (the high) and when it was full on it was like having your life directed by Francis Ford Coppola

then again all we toked on were regs and the mids themselves back then were known as real real stoner weed so im sure its relative to a point

but the point of certain solvents is to remove all the non psycho actives, trying in essence to make it as pure THC and nothing else that, according to the theory (and i agree in experience) that an isolated THC oil and the resulting high is

there were other steps that removed much of the waxes, tars, water solubles, and in the end the yield was dismal

I think in essence it would be equivalent to the efficiency of the butane molecule plus the added benefit of heating which in itself converts some of the potential.degraded thc components to full blown thc

he goes into the science in great depth but considering all the risk factors including the major manufacture charges that go with it

remember solvents under pressure with heat are expanded explosive gas, a leak and a spark and you can blow up more than yourself ( i say this also for those who don't have lab backgrounds)

legend has it its why Nevil started the quest for high powered kind so hash wasn't necessary, and with the dry sift and bubble hash techs its easy to make safe solvent less full melt

this is melt from 73u ran 220u and 190u only then the 73

i am very grateful to bubbleman for helping me make a very simple and absolutely painless transition to make killing hash with water n ice

far easier to administer than oil IMO

the high is insanity and since its top shelf indoor the resin is perfect as is and needs no chemical conversions imo

G.O. Joe · Jun 3, 2010

desert fox said:
but if you go all scientific, and find a way to make oil extract actually rock up

I already did this months ago, and posted (post 3222262) it here:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=158240&page=2

I thought it was safe posting in a thread "Organic Chemistry" that hadn't been posted in in a week, but sure enough, within 3 hours Piper deleted all of his posts...and threads.

We had been talking about terpenes there, I talked about the method and how the crystalline terpene-free acids weren't any different than before extraction.

It was just standard extraction for benzoic acids, not a recipe.

I'll try it again tonight and take some pictures. It won't be in someone else's thread though.

RNDZL · Jun 3, 2010

cannabis alchemy

referencing a page where the talk about red oil. It is not the colonial method which was added to appendixes for future refernce

also on page 56

roger adams describes laboratory method for refinement of crude and purified red oils as published in 1940 on page 198 volume 62 of the journal of the american chemistry society

this is in addition to the other red oil info in the book

Gray Wolf · Jun 3, 2010

My biochemist student friend tells me that the NaOh step is to separate the polar from the non polar constituets.

More nessessary when using non polar solvents which pick up the waxes and water solubles.

GW

PS: I have a collection of alchemy books, but I think the best is probably Marijuana Chemistry, by Starks, though some of it is out of date and it doesn't cover the subject completely.

I haven't found any that do, and have had the best luck researching on line and doing my own experimenting. What you find on line is not yet in any book that I have yet found.

gunnaknow · Jun 3, 2010

Particularly bright red oil used to be called cherry oil. I think that the brightest red oil is made by leaving it in direct sunlight for a while. Chlorophyll isn't a very stable molecule and it decomposes to nonfluorescent catabolites in the presense of light or enzymes. Plants have to constantly synthesize more chlorophyll to replenish what is lost. When chlorophyll is decomposed, by light or by enzymes, the carotenoid pigments become visible, which are what give leaves their yellow and orange colours in autumn.

However, they appear red in higher concentrations because more blue light becomes absorbed. This is most likely what makes hash oil (oleoresin) appear red. The more lengthy the extraction time, the more pigments as a whole are extracted, which makes the oil appear extremely red, once the chlorophyll has been decomposed to nonfluorescent products.

I did a quick experiment today, to show you what light can do to chlorophyll in the space of just three hours. This isn't necessarily exactly how things would progress for a solvent/oil extract because they aren't made from blitzed material and the chlorophyll is therefore usually dissolved into the solution without it's protein complexes. This is just to give you a general idea of what sunlight will do to chlorophyll.

I blitzed a large handfull of salad leaves (rocket, spinach) in a blender, with a small amount of water. I then strained the solution through a paper napkin and split the filtrate into three samples of equal volume. Sample 1 was left as it was. Sample 2 was placed in direct sunlight for approx. 3 hours, on a cloudless day. Sample 3 was reduced to a pH of <4, by adding citric acid. Sample 3 changed from bright green to an olive green colour within minutes of pH adjustment. Sample 2 changed from bright green to a faint yellow/orange within 3 hours of illumination.

The samples were small and dilute but if sample 2 was much larger and evaporated down to a concentrate, the increased blue light absorbtion would make the yellow/orange colour appear red.

From left to right: Sample 1, sample 2, sample 3.

Hashmasta-Kut · Jun 3, 2010

reclaim oil is always pretty red i find, so maybe a heating treatment would turn oils a nice red too.

boroboro · Jun 3, 2010

Gunnaknow -- very interesting demonstration, thanks much!

gunnaknow · Jun 3, 2010

Anytime boroboro.

gunnaknow · Jun 3, 2010

Here's a couple of pics of cherry oil from OG. I don't know how the cherry oil was made in the second pic but the sample in the first pic was left to turn bright red in the sun.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=167656

I would say that leaving it in the sun before the solvent has been evaporated is better, so that the sunlight can penetrate more easily. If it's in a shallow layer, in a wide dish, then it will turn red much quicker and avoid too much exposure time for the cannabinoids.

gunna

gunnaknow · Jun 3, 2010

Here's something on how carotenoids can appear yellow or orange at lower concentrations and appear red at higher concentrations.

Lutein (pronounced /ˈluːti.ɨn/, /ˈluːtiːn/,[1] from Latin luteus meaning "yellow") is a xanthophyll and one of 600 known naturally-occurring carotenoids. Found in green leafy vegetables such as spinach and kale, lutein is employed by organisms as an antioxidant and for blue light absorption.....

This xanthophyll, like its sister compound zeaxanthin, has primarily been used as a natural colorant due to its orange-red color. Lutein absorbs blue light and therefore appears yellow at low concentrations and orange-red at high concentrations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lutein

Crocin is a natural carotenoid chemical compound that is found in the flowers crocus and gardenia....

It has a deep red color and forms crystals with a melting point of 186 °C. When dissolved in water, it forms an orange solution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crocin

desert fox · Jun 3, 2010

Gray Wolf said:
My biochemist student friend tells me that the NaOh step is to separate the polar from the non polar constituets.

More nessessary when using non polar solvents which pick up the waxes and water solubles.

GW

Bingo. Just be sure to fully understand the chemicals your working with and follow the mixing instructions. I would be more inclined to combine the two methods. GWs method described taking it from plant to oil/refinement in one step....your original post described takes plant material to oil by a non polar extraction first, then take it a step further to refine: Uses less chemicals, fuss, and mess to clean up. I think Butane would be a better solvent to use then ISO for the first part. Then redissolve it to make it a mixed chemical for your steps. Just my opinion but ISO should work fine.

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