190PPM Tap Water - Why am I getting Calcium Deficiencies?

Hi,

My tap water is 190 PPM, Calcium is supposed to be 130PPM, I have attached my water report.

Im growing in Pro Mix HP which has dolomite Lime so theres calcium slow and quick release in the mix as well

I use pure blend pro bloom soil and grow between 15 ml/g and 20 ml/g.

I think between my almost hard water, the calcium in pure blend pro, and the calcium in the dolomite lime I should have enough calcium there.

my Ph of nutrients is always beetween 5.9 and 6.2 going in and its between 5.8-6.2 coming out. Perfect Ph range for soilesss pro mix so I don't think its that.


Should I be adding 2.5 ml/G cal mag ? Or is it simply locked out for some reason and not available ?

I know this might belong in the infirmary but I feel that Ive diagnosed the deficiency and Im inquiring more to the requirement of cal mag for my tap water using pure blend pro.

These are from some other plants a few weeks ago. It was a lot worse on those plants, different strain though.

After more thought and reading up I have begin to understand that plants need roughly 100-200 ppm calcium, so between my taps 138 ppm, and 62 ppm from 15ml/G PBP Bloom, and additionally from any dolomite lime in the promix I am hitting that 200 mark easily, so I think my problem is it is getting locked out due to nutrient buildup in my pro mix. Feeding 900 every watering, which is in the range of recommended feeding schedules I have seen - about 20 in total! But this can change from what type of medium you are using, and feeding rate.

hopefully this helps anyone that is reading this and has a similar situation or problem.

Like many people said, Cal-mag is only needed for RO Water, or if you have really low ppm tap less than 100 I would think...

You're right on. I am feeding at 0.7 EC of N this time. Overfeeding will give you symptoms that almost everyone on here (myself included) immediately thinks are deficiencies. Your soil is preferted as well, so you really only need minimal applications of nutes for good plant health.

This might be of interest:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=75108

Spot on. In my personal experience I don't experience true deficiencies. It's always a lock out of something. I bet either magnesium or phosphorus is locking it out. Cut yourself down to 700ppm and see what happens. I'm personally not a fan of one part base nutes because you can't control anything except lowering or raising your strength. With two part base I can lower or raise certain nute strengths

With your PBP, are you prewatering your medium at all with straight ph adjusted water first, or just giving them all PBP? If the later, make sure to give them atleast 30, I go with 50% of their total water/food is just ph adjusted water, then once they have gotten that, go back with the other half of their total water/food and give them the food portion. This not only saves on nutes, but more importantly prevents buildup and lockouts.

Yes, never fertilize on dry soil for sure. I killed a sativa I spent most of a year growing outdoors that way.

Calcium in tap water delivered from carbonates isn't really easy available to plants roots compare to cal mag delivered from nitrates. You may think and calculate this 200 ppm of cal but how much of them is really used from plants who know?
Here is helpfull read
http://www.thctalk.com/cannabis-forum/archive/index.php/t-61051.html

I think the whole CaCO3 being less usable by plants than other calcium salts thing is a nutrient company lie--lime is used all over the place in agriculture to provide calcium and control pH.

The guy who wrote that article sells RO systems for hydro growers. Makes sense that he'd say tap water calcium is bad, no?

Gelado` said:

I think the whole CaCO3 being less usable by plants than other calcium salts thing is a nutrient company lie--lime is used all over the place in agriculture to provide calcium and control pH.

The guy who wrote that article sells RO systems for hydro growers. Makes sense that he'd say tap water calcium is bad, no?

Click to expand...

The calcium in tap water is Calcium Bicarbonate... Not CaCO3 (calcium carbonate).

MJPassion said:

The calcium in tap water is Calcium Bicarbonate... Not CaCO3 (calcium carbonate).

Click to expand...

So contact with Co2 make calcium carbonate to dissolve in water and make ca and mag in tap water available to plants?

MJPassion said:

The calcium in tap water is Calcium Bicarbonate... Not CaCO3 (calcium carbonate).

Click to expand...

"Calcium carbonate will react with water that is saturated with carbon dioxide to form the soluble calcium bicarbonate. This reaction is important in the erosion of carbonate rock, forming caverns, and leads to hard water in many regions. An unusual form of calcium carbonate is the hexahydrate, ikaite, CaCO."

Either way, the calcium is dissociating in water and you get calcium ions, which plants can use. If there is CO2 present, then the calcium is tied up because calcium bicarbonate forms. In many places, I believe calcium carbonate is actually added to tap water!

Paulie im curious what the ph of you water is straight from the tap? Ive had similar problems and think this is right on. Lockout over fert... My well water tap comes out low ph .4- 5 with the drops red orange. So did some research and found out could be c02 in the water so started bubling it before use and that brought the ph up to 6.5- 7 then i mix up gh flora series and a 1 2 3 mix and the 3 parts bloom knocks the ph right back down to 4-5 anyone have experience with flora series doing this?

Gelado` said:

"Calcium carbonate will react with water that is saturated with carbon dioxide to form the soluble calcium bicarbonate. This reaction is important in the erosion of carbonate rock, forming caverns, and leads to hard water in many regions. An unusual form of calcium carbonate is the hexahydrate, ikaite, CaCO."

Either way, the calcium is dissociating in water and you get calcium ions, which plants can use. If there is CO2 present, then the calcium is tied up because calcium bicarbonate forms. In many places, I believe calcium carbonate is actually added to tap water!

Click to expand...

So could the c02 in the water be causing the calci deficiency or should it still be able to get it from the fertilizer or will it lock that up to?

IME your problem is that you're overfertilizing, which is causing lockouts

Thanks everyone for chiming in, and the links to other threads and articles.


Gelado,

true, the pro mix has starter nutrients. I can go the whole veg cycle every watering on 500ppm and there doing great. I transplant every 2 weeks from 16 oz to 1G to 3G, so they get some new pro mix every two weeks. When I put these guys to flower end of this week I will have 6 rows and do each one at a different ppm level (600,650,700,750, and then another one that is 700pm total incl. 2.5 ml/g Cal mag (just to see if there is any benefit to additional cal mag of a more soluble form). I will link a post when it has begun. In my last run when I was feeding every watering between 800-900 ppm I would get run off hitting 1500 ppm pretty quick, so really want to keep runoff at 1000ppm and see how they like that.

Why is bad to give nutrient solution on dry soil. they seemed to respond well to it on the short term. I feed with every watering, and wait 4-6 days until it is very dry, but never wilting. I used to do 25% run off but was having problems and was a lot of work dealing with drainage every watering and felt i was wasting nutrient mix.So my new system is to pre flush every 3rd feeding with 3 Gallons of water, with minimal run off during other feedings. il be feeding every 3-4 days ( its hotter now here, and I used slightly less pro mix in pots this time). This works out to every 2 weeks which seems more than sufficient.

KONY,

I am feeding with every watering. Im trying to find a consistent feeding level where I give them just what they need every watering with out having build up of nutrients. Lets say the soil can absorb 1G of water, when you feed you give it 1/2 Gallon of regular water, and the 1/2 of nutrient mix ?

MJPASSION,

" The calcium in tap water is Calcium Bicarbonate... Not CaCO3 (calcium carbonate)."


My water report says that it actually is CaCO3 (calcium carbonate), I attached it so take a look?

AKSS,

My Tap water comes out at 7.3, I bubble it for 28 hours to get it to room temperature and then add nutrients, which brings it to 6.5, and then ph it to 6 with ph down. It drifts up a little there after but is stable for several weeks. I mix bin and sometimes it can take 2 weeks to use up depending.

Gelado` said:

"Calcium carbonate will react with water that is saturated with carbon dioxide to form the soluble calcium bicarbonate. This reaction is important in the erosion of carbonate rock, forming caverns, and leads to hard water in many regions. An unusual form of calcium carbonate is the hexahydrate, ikaite, CaCO."

Either way, the calcium is dissociating in water and you get calcium ions, which plants can use. If there is CO2 present, then the calcium is tied up because calcium bicarbonate forms. In many places, I believe calcium carbonate is actually added to tap water!

Click to expand...

Lol, you should do a little more reading than thinking because what you have posted on this thread is maddeningly misinterpreting actual science. I don't have the time or fingers to rail any further...

prune said:

Lol, you should do a little more reading than thinking because what you have posted on this thread is maddeningly misinterpreting actual science. I don't have the time or fingers to rail any further...

Click to expand...

Did some reading as suggested. Yes, calcium nitrate is far more soluble than calcium carbonate. Calcium carbonate makes water harder, but the carbonate helps to buffer pH. Calcium nitrate provides nitrogen as well, and can potentially interfere with flowering. Also when using calcium nitrate with mag sulfate, calcium sulfate, or gypsum, can form, which is highly insoluble, so both have to be used very sparingly to prevent this.

Phosphoric acid + calcium carbonate can form calcium phosphate, which is also highly insoluble. Amino acids seem to chelate calcium and mag and make them more soluble, preventing the formation of limescale.

Am I on the right track now?

Yeah the general takeaway for a noob like me was that CaCO3 (calcium carbonate) which is in water, is not the most soluble form of it, although that just means it just takes longer to convert by the microbes in the soil until it becomes available. So the process is not as quick and efficient and depends on a few other factors but in the end does provide a sufficient source. Either way I will do 4 plants with 2.5 ml cal mag on my next run out of 24 plants to see how they respond.

Gelado` said:

IME your problem is that you're overfertilizing, which is causing lockouts

Click to expand...

Yep...