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Replacing 1000W HPS
- Thread starter Katsu
- Start date
Ibechillin
Masochist Educator
Have you seen the grow lighting sticky in my signature? (I tryed to compile alot of these answers into one thread)
1. COB means chip on board, Quantum boards are big COB boards essentially.
2. Ideally UV through the whole grow, not just end of flower. Good information about UV in this thread:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=354633
3. Would need some example brands to compare to for price % difference. DIY cost is the middlerange around $1 per watt of draw, meaning a 200w build will cost about $200. Premade Amazon Panels are the cheapest and commercial premade fixtures the most expensive around $2 per actual watt of draw (Black Dog, Lumi Grow, Fluence) meaning around $1200 for a 600W fixture.
3000k seems to be the best spectrum under led.
1. COB means chip on board, Quantum boards are big COB boards essentially.
2. Ideally UV through the whole grow, not just end of flower. Good information about UV in this thread:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=354633
3. Would need some example brands to compare to for price % difference. DIY cost is the middlerange around $1 per watt of draw, meaning a 200w build will cost about $200. Premade Amazon Panels are the cheapest and commercial premade fixtures the most expensive around $2 per actual watt of draw (Black Dog, Lumi Grow, Fluence) meaning around $1200 for a 600W fixture.
3000k seems to be the best spectrum under led.
Last edited:
bsgospel
Bat Macumba
I would think if you get the right board you might not need any COB supplementation. I guess it comes down to justifying the extra cost. If you're cool with DIY COBs you'll also have to spring for some heat sinks and drivers I suspect. But again you could accomplish the same wattage with the right unit and not have to fuss with multiple modules or fixtures.
Douglas.Curtis
Autistic Diplomat in Training
DIY LED seems to be significantly less expensive, while having access to nearly all the same tech as the proprietary models. Anyone with DIY skills should definitely look at LEDs. 
What's your budget? Top of the line 50w COBs are around $25-30/USD. They require cooling, so they need a heat sink and usually at least one fan. Then you'll need to drive them, and there are a lot of options.
Cheaper options exist, though slightly less efficient. At least one mfg has COBs with built in drivers. They still need heat sinks and usually fans, but the wiring is as simple as soldering 2 wires of a plug to the chip. I personally picked up 1040w (actual watts) of full-spectrum and warm-white spectrum 30w and 50w COBS for $47.
Here's 540w's waiting for soldering, heat sinks and fans.
What's your budget? Top of the line 50w COBs are around $25-30/USD. They require cooling, so they need a heat sink and usually at least one fan. Then you'll need to drive them, and there are a lot of options.
Cheaper options exist, though slightly less efficient. At least one mfg has COBs with built in drivers. They still need heat sinks and usually fans, but the wiring is as simple as soldering 2 wires of a plug to the chip. I personally picked up 1040w (actual watts) of full-spectrum and warm-white spectrum 30w and 50w COBS for $47.
Here's 540w's waiting for soldering, heat sinks and fans.
How big is the grow??? Was there any issues running 1ks... need more info to give an honest answer but in my Opinion only things that I'd swap 1ks with would be 630cmh ideally I'd only swap a few 1k hps and use the cmh for extra spectrum unless I was dealing with temp issues but look into the 630 they are way more bang for ur buck then leds n grow some killer plants
Hello Douglas
Not bad them boards. Many utility light manufacturers are using them, and getting type approval. Which means low levels of radio interference. Unlike the next cheapest option, which is $10 ballasts I could barely impact with three common mode chokes. Totally unusable.
They're about 80lm/w which is somewhat off the 150lm you can expect now. So your going to need twice the electric. Making twice as much heat. It's common to see them in fittings at your local diy store though, so you can sling something together quite quickly. I carry a couple of 50w led wall lights that use them, just for emergencies.
Using them in place of a 1000? I'm not sure that's viable. Maybe 1500w would be needed. 50w modules is the financial sweet spot, as bigger one's and bigger heatsinks are getting a little less common.
As a wild idea, you could use thermal plaster to glue these to a 2x1 metal section, that you run water through as cooling. It's a bit messy though, and not particularly reliable. CPU cooling blocks are another option for packing these things closely together. I'm going off topic though.
There is a spread of opinion. To replace a 1000 I would start with 800w of led. Some people feel 500w enough. Others feel it simply can't be done.
I physically can't build anything past 100w. With huge heatsinks costing the earth, and fan assistance, that led is just too hot to last long term. It's efficiency is down, and it just becomes unworthwhile. I believe others have also done the math, which is why we see so many builds using lots of 50w units. Building 15 of the things though.. I don't know. 400 euro maybe.
Not bad them boards. Many utility light manufacturers are using them, and getting type approval. Which means low levels of radio interference. Unlike the next cheapest option, which is $10 ballasts I could barely impact with three common mode chokes. Totally unusable.
They're about 80lm/w which is somewhat off the 150lm you can expect now. So your going to need twice the electric. Making twice as much heat. It's common to see them in fittings at your local diy store though, so you can sling something together quite quickly. I carry a couple of 50w led wall lights that use them, just for emergencies.
Using them in place of a 1000? I'm not sure that's viable. Maybe 1500w would be needed. 50w modules is the financial sweet spot, as bigger one's and bigger heatsinks are getting a little less common.
As a wild idea, you could use thermal plaster to glue these to a 2x1 metal section, that you run water through as cooling. It's a bit messy though, and not particularly reliable. CPU cooling blocks are another option for packing these things closely together. I'm going off topic though.
There is a spread of opinion. To replace a 1000 I would start with 800w of led. Some people feel 500w enough. Others feel it simply can't be done.
I physically can't build anything past 100w. With huge heatsinks costing the earth, and fan assistance, that led is just too hot to last long term. It's efficiency is down, and it just becomes unworthwhile. I believe others have also done the math, which is why we see so many builds using lots of 50w units. Building 15 of the things though.. I don't know. 400 euro maybe.
Douglas.Curtis
Autistic Diplomat in Training
Oh, my mistake. I didn't mean I'm replacing my 1000k hps in my tent with these. I'm working on building smaller boxes for multiple projects. I'm turning off the 1k very shortly.
The water cooling is interesting, I literally just saw something which would work nicely a few minutes ago. It was a water cooled CPU cooling block. Plumbing isn't a big deal for me and I'm very understanding of water and electronics. lol I hear you on the price of passive heat sinks. LOL Almost makes me wish I worked in an extrusion/machining plant for aluminum.
I didn't mean I'm replacing my 1000k hps in my tent with these. I'm working on building smaller boxes for multiple projects. I'm turning off the 1k very shortly.The water cooling is interesting, I literally just saw something which would work nicely a few minutes ago.
It was a water cooled CPU cooling block. Plumbing isn't a big deal for me and I'm very understanding of water and electronics. lol I hear you on the price of passive heat sinks. LOL Almost makes me wish I worked in an extrusion/machining plant for aluminum. 
Hi Katsu,
Replacing a 1000w hps with leds will require a bit more than just changing lights, it will need adaptations in growing style a bit. Mostly because of two factors, first is light spread and intensity, the second is less radiant heat coming from the light.
I think cobs on pc coolers are the least expensive option and have the benefit of good light intensity when driven at 100w/cob. The quantum boards will have a better spread but lower intensity so the taller plants won't get enough light in lower parts.
Usually this only means you need a bit more lst or scrogging for good canopy management.
My choice are cobs, bridgelux vero SE driven at almost 100w and the plants like it a lot.
Just another thought, i have a feeling that plants which were bred indoors under hps exclusively might show some lockout deficencies during veg and bloom phases, so feeding will also need some adjustments.
Take care and have a great weekend.
Cheers
Replacing a 1000w hps with leds will require a bit more than just changing lights, it will need adaptations in growing style a bit. Mostly because of two factors, first is light spread and intensity, the second is less radiant heat coming from the light.
I think cobs on pc coolers are the least expensive option and have the benefit of good light intensity when driven at 100w/cob. The quantum boards will have a better spread but lower intensity so the taller plants won't get enough light in lower parts.
Usually this only means you need a bit more lst or scrogging for good canopy management.
My choice are cobs, bridgelux vero SE driven at almost 100w and the plants like it a lot.
Just another thought, i have a feeling that plants which were bred indoors under hps exclusively might show some lockout deficencies during veg and bloom phases, so feeding will also need some adjustments.
Take care and have a great weekend.
Cheers
OceanStateGrown
New member
Hey Katsu,
Definitely give the second generation Fluence Spydr2p a look. Little cheaper than the outgoing model, big improvement over the original. Check out @poetryofplants he broke 3 in a 4x4 with one of these if I remember correctly. (We're all stoners here. Lol)
Definitely give the second generation Fluence Spydr2p a look. Little cheaper than the outgoing model, big improvement over the original. Check out @poetryofplants he broke 3 in a 4x4 with one of these if I remember correctly. (We're all stoners here. Lol)
Katsu! Man I can't believe I found you on here. I don't have enough posts for PM. I'll need to fix that. It would be great to chat with you.
Shmavis
Being-in-the-world
Hi Koondense,
Is this just a thought/feeling, or is there data to back it up? I ask because I think it's correct. And have found myself wondering about the decades of making seeds that has taken place (almost) exclusively under HID and how, if at all, that may factor into the influence of genetic fingerprints and inputs expected. I mean to say, I am finding that I need to make the adjustments you mention, now that I am no longer using HID.
Many thanks for all the lighting knowledge you share with the community!
Hi Shmavis,
it's my assumption which is mostly based on logic but also on some minimal observation during my grows and hearing other peoples experience.
I took some time to analyze different light sources spectrums which are used with cannabis and to me the phenomenon seems obvious but honestly I'm unable to explain it in scientific terms without doing proper science first.
My little experience was always similar, the plants I did grow under leds(I only use cob leds, for the record) and I knew their seeds came from breeders who use exclusively hps lights for seed runs, there were always some deficencies showing in veg and mid flowering. Of course there are other factors involved but since I keep my feeding consistent for most plants, the hps bred showed small but obvious differences in nutrient uptake. Nothing drastic or unmanageable but enough to scare newbs and cause worry in not experienced growers.
I know Katsu is a master in many areas, no doubt, but I feel this little info could be useful for anyone jumping on the led train, being able to avoid unnecessary stress and even loss of time/resources.
Thanks to you for pointing out this detail, it's an important factor and should be explored more in depth eventually.
Selection is key and ideally should be done under the sun.
Cheers
it's my assumption which is mostly based on logic but also on some minimal observation during my grows and hearing other peoples experience.
I took some time to analyze different light sources spectrums which are used with cannabis and to me the phenomenon seems obvious but honestly I'm unable to explain it in scientific terms without doing proper science first.
My little experience was always similar, the plants I did grow under leds(I only use cob leds, for the record) and I knew their seeds came from breeders who use exclusively hps lights for seed runs, there were always some deficencies showing in veg and mid flowering. Of course there are other factors involved but since I keep my feeding consistent for most plants, the hps bred showed small but obvious differences in nutrient uptake. Nothing drastic or unmanageable but enough to scare newbs and cause worry in not experienced growers.
I know Katsu is a master in many areas, no doubt, but I feel this little info could be useful for anyone jumping on the led train, being able to avoid unnecessary stress and even loss of time/resources.
Thanks to you for pointing out this detail, it's an important factor and should be explored more in depth eventually.
Selection is key and ideally should be done under the sun.
Cheers
Ibechillin
Masochist Educator
Epigenetic change explains how environment affects phenotype expression by activating or deactivating traits from the same genotype in different grow styles/environments, clones from the same mother can express quite differently. Plants that have been bred indoors under HPS for long spans of time have probably adjusted to the spectrum available, which isnt utilized very efficiently. HPS typically lacks any usable blue light, produces mostly in the yellow range of light and minimal usable red light.
The deficiencies you mentioned during veg and flowering under the COBs could have been from the broader spectrum with more usable red and blue light causing more photosynthetic activity in the plants making them require some feed adjustments. The other potential cause that comes to mind is leaf surface temperature. The lack or Infra red produced from led lights makes the plants run cold blooded and the plants metabolisms slow down (IR heats things up when it comes in contact). My research has recommended to run room temperatures around 84F under LED to keep leaf surface temperature and metabolism at optimal levels.
Thanks ibechillin,
i share the same thoughts, just wanted to add that soil or other mediums also play a part in this issue. I encountered a problem sometimes, the plant metabolism in soil mixes were a bit too slow for light levels so adjusting the room temperature helped(25-30°C works great). Lack of IR needs higher temps and can cause troubles in winter grows.
Cheers
i share the same thoughts, just wanted to add that soil or other mediums also play a part in this issue. I encountered a problem sometimes, the plant metabolism in soil mixes were a bit too slow for light levels so adjusting the room temperature helped(25-30°C works great). Lack of IR needs higher temps and can cause troubles in winter grows.
Cheers
