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Can Not Shake This Calcium Deficiency/Lockout For The Life Of Me!! Why???

frostqueen

Active member
Surprisingly they didn't smell at all.

I tried both the beneficial and sterile route. Neither worked.

Finally decided it was start over time.

This was what I was just going to ask you: when I have seen root rot in my scene (a rare thing, luckily) I can always smell it.

I had this same thing happen to me. The plant looked exactly like your pics. It was root rot in my case.

I've been working with various antibacterials lately, as I had some clones get a bit slimey after developing their roots. I figured it was a good time to experiment. I have focused on the sterile route rather than beneficials.

I usually use about 2 ppm of chlorine via calcium hypochlorite in my aerocloners. I add it every 4 days. For perspective, our city water in Portland comes out of the tap at 4 ppm. That actually kind of surprised me. Suffice to say, plants seem to have no problems at all with 5 ppm or even more. I use the smaller amount as a preventative and it works great.

I got some chlorine test strips and ran quite a few tests to determine exactly how fast that stuff breaks down. Interestingly, if I use tap water the chlorine is gone the next day. If I use cal hypochlorite it lasts about 3 days.

As far as the slimey clones go, I got a few tests going in small jars to figure out how well they kill off the rot:

1. Calcium Hypochlorite at 6ppm. I thought that this would work. It didn't. I switched out the liquid each day to keep it all fresh. Stayed slimey. Beyond hope 3 days later.

2. Z7 enzymatic cleanser. Nobody talks about this one much, but it is a fantastic preventative. It's kept me disease free for years. I don't use it in the aerocloners, though. It would probably do fine, but chlorine works better at temps above 72 degrees, and I often push it to 75 to speed the rooting process up.

Anyway, Z7 did not work. That one was done and gone in 3 days, too.

3. H2O2. This one I have used the least in the past, so I read a bunch about it first. The good thing about H2O2 is that it adds oxygen and has other beneficial effects. The consensus seemed to be 3% H2O2 at 1-3 tsp per gallon filtered water. If you are using 35% H2O2 you just dilute it 1:11 with filtered water first to make it 3%, then add 1-3 tsp/gallon. This lasts about 3 days until you need to re-add.

This one actually worked. It had a lot of tiny bubbles coming off of the roots, so that was satisfying. The roots turned white. 3 days later it had started to form more roots and looked good to go.

Long story short: they all work well as preventatives. Z7 does great as a general preventative, and I add it to all of my water, in soil or hydro. It becomes less effective above around 75 degrees.

Calcium hypochlorite does great, and handles higher temperatures better than Z7 does. I use it at 2 ppm as a preventative in my aerocloners and very rarely have problems. Seems it can be pushed to 6 ppm with no ill effects. Plants root fine, tops are healthy.

H2O2 is something I will be using more of. I want to try it in the aerocloners next time to see how that goes, and my hydro scene will get a test run with it instead of Z7.

Note of caution: don't mix chlorine and H2O2. It foams up and reacts and isn't compatible.
 

Rabbi

Member
This was what I was just going to ask you: when I have seen root rot in my scene (a rare thing, luckily) I can always smell it.

I had this same thing happen to me. The plant looked exactly like your pics. It was root rot in my case.

I've been working with various antibacterials lately, as I had some clones get a bit slimey after developing their roots. I figured it was a good time to experiment. I have focused on the sterile route rather than beneficials.

I usually use about 2 ppm of chlorine via calcium hypochlorite in my aerocloners. I add it every 4 days. For perspective, our city water in Portland comes out of the tap at 4 ppm. That actually kind of surprised me. Suffice to say, plants seem to have no problems at all with 5 ppm or even more. I use the smaller amount as a preventative and it works great.

I got some chlorine test strips and ran quite a few tests to determine exactly how fast that stuff breaks down. Interestingly, if I use tap water the chlorine is gone the next day. If I use cal hypochlorite it lasts about 3 days.

As far as the slimey clones go, I got a few tests going in small jars to figure out how well they kill off the rot:

1. Calcium Hypochlorite at 6ppm. I thought that this would work. It didn't. I switched out the liquid each day to keep it all fresh. Stayed slimey. Beyond hope 3 days later.

2. Z7 enzymatic cleanser. Nobody talks about this one much, but it is a fantastic preventative. It's kept me disease free for years. I don't use it in the aerocloners, though. It would probably do fine, but chlorine works better at temps above 72 degrees, and I often push it to 75 to speed the rooting process up.

Anyway, Z7 did not work. That one was done and gone in 3 days, too.

3. H2O2. This one I have used the least in the past, so I read a bunch about it first. The good thing about H2O2 is that it adds oxygen and has other beneficial effects. The consensus seemed to be 3% H2O2 at 1-3 tsp per gallon filtered water. If you are using 35% H2O2 you just dilute it 1:11 with filtered water first to make it 3%, then add 1-3 tsp/gallon. This lasts about 3 days until you need to re-add.

This one actually worked. It had a lot of tiny bubbles coming off of the roots, so that was satisfying. The roots turned white. 3 days later it had started to form more roots and looked good to go.

Long story short: they all work well as preventatives. Z7 does great as a general preventative, and I add it to all of my water, in soil or hydro. It becomes less effective above around 75 degrees.

Calcium hypochlorite does great, and handles higher temperatures better than Z7 does. I use it at 2 ppm as a preventative in my aerocloners and very rarely have problems. Seems it can be pushed to 6 ppm with no ill effects. Plants root fine, tops are healthy.

H2O2 is something I will be using more of. I want to try it in the aerocloners next time to see how that goes, and my hydro scene will get a test run with it instead of Z7.

Note of caution: don't mix chlorine and H2O2. It foams up and reacts and isn't compatible.

I'm pretty close to what you have mentioned here. I tried H2o2 and Calcium Hypochlorite(not at the same time) when I had the rot but nothing I tried got rid of it. By the time I figured out it was a root disease it had already gotten so bad that I just couldn't fix it.

The only thing out of everything I tried that even helped was AN Piranha but that shit is out this world expensive and it wasn't a cure. It just helped a bit.

Now on my new seedlings I'm using a UV sterilizer light in my holding tank(before nutes only) and also using the Calcium Hypochlorite at 2-3ppm every 4 days as a preventative as well.

Do you think that's enough? Should I bump it up to 4-5ppm? Interesting about your city water levels.

Not sure if you bothered reading the whole thread but my problems occurred immediately after I moved from the city to the country.

Up until then I've never encountered root rot before and since I was using the exact same equipment and set up as before I've found myself questioning if the city chlorine was saving my ass for all those years and I had no idea?

Seems like too much of a coincidence that I never seen root rot in 16 years there but have yet to have a single crop here that didn't have it.

Anyway seedlings looking nice and healthy so far. Fingers crossed.
 

Rabbi

Member
ive only really had bud rot at cooler temps and higher humidity.

yeah I just saw the root pics.. hopefully that was the only issue and you have it resolved.. it would be good to see an update with your new plants to see if you resolved the issue :)

Yes, praying that's the only issue and I resolve it, jesus.

I will drop updates here and there along the way, good or bad.
 

TychoMonolyth

Boreal Curing
I was sifting through Chris Trump of Korean Natural Farming fame and found this gem. It took a few minutes of my time and I have 1 liter of WCA (Water Soluable Calcium). Enough for a lifetime because you mix it 1/1000. Use a big enough jar because the reaction will make it overflow. I cooked them on the stove on high heat.

[iframe1]yPARtxlNrjo[/iframe1]
 

frostqueen

Active member
Now on my new seedlings I'm using a UV sterilizer light in my holding tank(before nutes only) and also using the Calcium Hypochlorite at 2-3ppm every 4 days as a preventative as well.

Do you think that's enough? Should I bump it up to 4-5ppm? Interesting about your city water levels.

I think you should be good to go. I think my tester clones with the rot on them were probably just a bit too far gone for the CH to work. I am a firm believer in prevention at 2-3ppm CH still.

Good luck!
 

JimMuscles

Active member
Yes it certainly is a long thread now.

As it turned out my calcium deficiency was caused from root rot.


Ohhh. Ok. Good to know. I just bought dissolvine chelated calcium as im having a defficiency, and most nutes have nitrogen or magnesium etc that i dont want. Its pure calcium and can be foliared. Would work for you, but fix that root rot too. Nasty shit.
 

Lyfespan

Active member
Ohhh. Ok. Good to know. I just bought dissolvine chelated calcium as im having a defficiency, and most nutes have nitrogen or magnesium etc that i dont want. Its pure calcium and can be foliared. Would work for you, but fix that root rot too. Nasty shit.

calcium can be foliared but needs support for uptake:tiphat:
 

Lyfespan

Active member
Wowzers. I was wondering what the upper end might be for H2O2. You mixed half 3% and half water and it didn't fry them?

this is for watering coco or soil, hydroponics is

The recommended amount of 3% solution of peroxide per gallon of water in hydroponics is around 3ml per liter or 2-3 teaspoons per gallon of reservoir water. Please note that we are talking about the diluted solution, NOT the 35% concentrated peroxide.
 

TychoMonolyth

Boreal Curing
Thanks for the link.



I've popped seeds in 50/50 but it was at least 6 months old stuff. Kills all fungus. Can't do that to soil though. May as well be martian soil after that. Zero life.

Once you break the seal, you've got about 30 days at peak effectiveness and about 6 months of useful activity. H2O2 is unstable and eventually that one oxygen molecule will escape. After that, it's water again. The half life will degrade even faster if you dip a qtip or finger into the bottle. If you have a bottle that's older than 2 years, even unopened, dump it and get another one. I get a few small bottles instead of one big one.
 

frostqueen

Active member
also use it to kill pests foliarly

I've done that at 1:4 with no probs.

this is for watering coco or soil, hydroponics is The recommended amount of 3% solution of peroxide per gallon of water in hydroponics is around 3ml per liter or 2-3 teaspoons per gallon of reservoir water. Please note that we are talking about the diluted solution, NOT the 35% concentrated peroxide.

Okay, this is what I've always heard. Thanks, Lyfespan.
 

Bobby Boucher

Active member
I never bother diluting 3%. I'll just alternate every 5-10 seconds between blasting the roots with 3% strait out of the bottle and running the roots under a cool 70 degree shower while ripping off the rot.

I feel like the strait 3% peroxide really helps fry the rotten roots off, expediting the hell out of the pulling and rinsing. Just conjecture, though. I've never struggled much with the rot.
 

OneHitDone

Member
phantom deficiencies! U maybe experiencing some type of fusarium or other fungal infection. similar problems plagued me for years. till i found out i was recirculating my problems.

i think 80-220ppm of calcium is recommended. then half of that number should be matched with magnesium in a 2:1 ratio. if i remember correct. u could try a foliar of calcium if your certain its calcium. biominn ca is a great product to foliar

seems like you have the other things in check. other then the 1500ppm of co2. go with 1000ppm till u get things figured out. i remember reading that after 1500ppm plants can close up the stomata an go into stasis. if i had to say im willing to bet some genetics may slow at 1400ppm, an others at 1600ppm co2, so why guess. tbh i dont think i see any difference at 1000ppm or 1250ppm. but then again getting to the last final % of dialing in there are 1000 other variables of importance. dial down to 1000ppm so u know your not slowing anyone, thats still almost 3x atmospheric co2.

its funny u mention jacks. i thought jacks was the problem for me cause i had other nutrients perform better under same conditions. read up on fusarium. try bleach or pool shock in the water. another disinfectant is hydrogen peroxide.

just because roots aren't roted doesn't mean u dont have a fungal infection. infections can disrupt the uptake of nutrients inside the stem. one genetic could fight it off more then the other making the plant seem healthier. infections can partially paralyze the plant. i could go on an on....
Solid advice, do you have any recommended application rates for bleach and pool shock to keep the root zone healthy?
 
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