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How long does it take to create a stable variety
- Thread starter unklemike
- Start date
PoweredByLove
Most Loved
depends on what trait(s) you're trying to fix. could take 1 year, could take 10.
Pending on mama and papa still takes years of progeny testing and seed testing ,
But its truly unheard of in todays era breeders
we do not see breeders with there unique signature strains like for instance DJ's be it color smell looks yield etc
the true breeders are gone the ones finding a land race strain and working it with another to make the unique strain
Pick a breeder any breeder google there strains look at the genetics and you will soon discover 99 percent of the time ,
They have taken other peoples work crossed it with someone elses work and name it something else and get it to market who cares about the hermies stability of the strain
The love of breeding is gone its now all about cashing in ASAP
Its no wonder true hordicultural breeders laugh at MJ breeders
Google breeding you will soon figure out mj breeders are not in the same category
truly speaking there a joke
But its truly unheard of in todays era breeders
we do not see breeders with there unique signature strains like for instance DJ's be it color smell looks yield etc
the true breeders are gone the ones finding a land race strain and working it with another to make the unique strain
Pick a breeder any breeder google there strains look at the genetics and you will soon discover 99 percent of the time ,
They have taken other peoples work crossed it with someone elses work and name it something else and get it to market who cares about the hermies stability of the strain
The love of breeding is gone its now all about cashing in ASAP
Its no wonder true hordicultural breeders laugh at MJ breeders
Google breeding you will soon figure out mj breeders are not in the same category
truly speaking there a joke
That one above. If you run indoors and out it will take about 4 months to do a crop. The old time breeders used to pick and chose desired traits from among hundreds of plants and I don't think LEO allows that in any country any more. After you spend all that time locking in traits, someone can take the seeds, grow them out, give it another name, and sell it for lots of money.
There's so many variables involved that it's not a exact science when trying to calculate how long it will take.
1st = It depends how stable your initial parent plants are and their genotypes.
For example: If you cross an Indica with a Sativa there will be lots of variations once you finish your F2 generation.
If the plants you start with are polyhybrids then that creates even more variations that need to be sorted out.
Then you have to factor in that your selected plants beyond your F2 generation have to
be close to each other or things will become a genetic jungle again with lots of variations.
I suspect it take 6 - 10 generations before things really get stable assuming you did you homework.
So just do it anyways. Creating new stuff is fun.
Good Luck
1st = It depends how stable your initial parent plants are and their genotypes.
For example: If you cross an Indica with a Sativa there will be lots of variations once you finish your F2 generation.
If the plants you start with are polyhybrids then that creates even more variations that need to be sorted out.
Then you have to factor in that your selected plants beyond your F2 generation have to
be close to each other or things will become a genetic jungle again with lots of variations.
I suspect it take 6 - 10 generations before things really get stable assuming you did you homework.
So just do it anyways. Creating new stuff is fun.
Good Luck
Croissant
Member
It seems to take them years like decade(s). Most breeders will have like 1 or two strains they put everything into if they do it at all. If you look at some of the Spanish breeders like ace n cannabiogen it seems like most of their strains were made by a friend of theirs in a specific climate over several years of selections each friend with just 1 strain. You have to keep your eyes out for peoples pet projects it is ussually the strain they will use to cross to everything else. So, for like thseeeds it was sage for bog bubblegum then sourbubble etc. Ive seen some interesting stuff that was like the line breeding of f2s from someone else's f1 hybrid and I think that's where you'll find the true breeding material.
It depends on your observation skills & the number of traits being observed.
It depends on your definition of stability.
It depends on your selection skills.
It depends on how serious you are about reaching a specific goal & the ability to maintain focus throughout the project to competition.
It depends on your starting material.
It depends on how many plants you can keep track of during a single phase of the project. (More plants = faster turnaround time)
It depends on you ability to kill undesirable specimens ( so as to free up space for mote desirable specimens).
To many variables to give a definitive answer.
It depends on your definition of stability.
It depends on your selection skills.
It depends on how serious you are about reaching a specific goal & the ability to maintain focus throughout the project to competition.
It depends on your starting material.
It depends on how many plants you can keep track of during a single phase of the project. (More plants = faster turnaround time)
It depends on you ability to kill undesirable specimens ( so as to free up space for mote desirable specimens).
To many variables to give a definitive answer.
I'm sorry but I have to ask this question. What is a true horticultural breeder?
TnTLabs
Active member
most has been already said, Croissants info is on point.. same goes for me.. i put in many years into my Sleestack/Sk#1 x C99 line.. on F5 now and still room for improvement
its a shit ton of work & time to test progeny and such... so maybe now some people can understand better why a pack of regs can be a few 100 $$
its a shit ton of work & time to test progeny and such... so maybe now some people can understand better why a pack of regs can be a few 100 $$
Croissant
Member
You know what though with modern techniques of being able to reverse males and females and enough space to progeny test the breeding potential of each selection and year-round growing conditions of indoors itcoukd probably be done in just a few years with severe bottle necking of the line.
Nope...
The years of work do not justify artificially high prices for a pack of seeds.
High prices are a result of prohibition & the trend seems to be continuing.
Cannabis seed is easier to produce than many of the $2-$5 packs of vegetable seed available to the general public so the artificially high prices are a bit ridiculous.
When cannabis growing becomes more mainstream, seed prices will drop like a rock.
If narcotics would keep people motivated there would probably be a lot more poppy growers as well. These seeds are relatively cheap, for a product that has the potential to be severely addictive as well as an excellent medication when used in moderation & unconcentrated.
TnTLabs
Active member
i think we are talking about apples & oranges here, i was looking at it from a breeders point of view. A representation of his/her work costing $100-200 (is a fair price in my eyes), IF years of selecting and progeny testing was made, this is rare and sure the market nowadays is mostly overpriced for the quality the consumer receives, im with you on that.
I wasnt talking about the general state of the market, but rather of the high end quality genetics that have been preserved and improved over years.
blessings
I wasnt talking about the general state of the market, but rather of the high end quality genetics that have been preserved and improved over years.
blessings
LostRiverSeeds
New member
What exactly constitutes as a stable strain? One every seed represents the same pheno type or when the seeds dont produce any herm traits? There is a bit of confusion to what the community means when they say stable.
Personally I like it when there are several phenotypes present, makes for a larger chance of finding keepers and something new and special
Personally I like it when there are several phenotypes present, makes for a larger chance of finding keepers and something new and special
PoweredByLove
Most Loved
pop bagseeds lol. i'm not paying upwards of $5 a seed for random games of chance. it better come out looking like the pics on your website. at least 50%. uniform inbred stabilized lines with expected results. not. "hey i popped a pack of jizzmjazzm from whatshisfuckfaceoverthere and i got a sweet smelling pheno, a skunky smelling pheno and a grapefruit pheno and one that is short and stringy and a huge giant one with tiny cookies dime sized buds...and"
and no...stop right there. no. just no....
A stable strain in my mind is one that has very little variation at all between plants.
I don't see a problem with expensive seeds. Where the problem lies for me is expensive seeds made by a chucker and are untested.
Check out Mitch's Auto Adventure thread. He lays it out well. From concept to finished product. Mitch is a perfectionist who won't let a seed out the door that isn't correct. I admire that guys determination.
The best person to comment on this would be Sam the Skunkman or Chimera.
I don't see a problem with expensive seeds. Where the problem lies for me is expensive seeds made by a chucker and are untested.
Check out Mitch's Auto Adventure thread. He lays it out well. From concept to finished product. Mitch is a perfectionist who won't let a seed out the door that isn't correct. I admire that guys determination.
The best person to comment on this would be Sam the Skunkman or Chimera.
Everyone wants it now these days. I have been working on Gorilla Bubble for roughly 4 years and it still isn't done. She is breeding true across the bpoard for many traits in the latest generations and outcrosses. Getting there. 
You can deffo tell they are all brothers and sisters now, the family has it's own look to it.
Interestingly to me the traits that seem the easiest to lock in are structural, resin production, vigor responses to topping, branching, and potency.
More difficult seems to be terpene production at a finer consistent level across the board.
I still dont undertstand this part very well but it doesn't seem to me that single alleles determine terpene production at all ha!
Segregation, linkage, many more factors included...
Hard to give you a straight answer but I promise whatever work you do will be rewarding!
You can deffo tell they are all brothers and sisters now, the family has it's own look to it.
Interestingly to me the traits that seem the easiest to lock in are structural, resin production, vigor responses to topping, branching, and potency.
More difficult seems to be terpene production at a finer consistent level across the board.
I still dont undertstand this part very well but it doesn't seem to me that single alleles determine terpene production at all ha!
Segregation, linkage, many more factors included...
Hard to give you a straight answer but I promise whatever work you do will be rewarding!
I think stable is a myth,at least the way we speak of it.
The huge populations of certain areas of the Himalayas or Russian Ruderalis or feral middle east plants could be called stable just because of the big genetic pool,meaning It will stay the same without the help of man or it will need many generations to change slightly The closest to stable I can think is a strain with a relative homogeneity inside one generation which can be reproduced nearly identical from seeds with the assistance of man. I wouldn't call a backcross a stable variety, just a weak variety in terms of adaptability with some desirable traits for human consomption locked in. If popular strains were stables why specifying the generations, even skunk, the archetype of stability is not the same since the first time I smoked some in the eighties.
The huge populations of certain areas of the Himalayas or Russian Ruderalis or feral middle east plants could be called stable just because of the big genetic pool,meaning It will stay the same without the help of man or it will need many generations to change slightly The closest to stable I can think is a strain with a relative homogeneity inside one generation which can be reproduced nearly identical from seeds with the assistance of man. I wouldn't call a backcross a stable variety, just a weak variety in terms of adaptability with some desirable traits for human consomption locked in. If popular strains were stables why specifying the generations, even skunk, the archetype of stability is not the same since the first time I smoked some in the eighties.
Thanks for the clarification.
What's funny about this is that the absolute best breeders (Chimera for example) don't charge $100 a pack for their wares. Only the clone only pollen chuckers do! It's flippin ridiculous!
