Can we discuss bubblegum?

slipdefeu · Oct 24, 2016

Dynamite x bubble sounds good, i've grown the pynamite (pineapple x dynamite) it was some pretty nice smoke

Pynamite showed me some auto-flowering traits like the spg i ran before, under 24/24 light, as soon as they feel limitated by the container.

Both were hard to keep as mom, maybe it should happen with yours :biggrin:

Ganja baba · Oct 24, 2016

slipdefeu said:
Dynamite x bubble sounds good, i've grown the pynamite (pineapple x dynamite) it was some pretty nice smoke

Pynamite showed me some auto-flowering traits like the spg i ran before, under 24/24 light, as soon as they feel limitated by the container.

Both were hard to keep as mom, maybe it should happen with yours

Hi mate when I made the pynamite I only got four seeds the one we all have enjoyed does some times want slightly flower , as the years have passed people have said it wants to ore flower even more , so I took a deeper look , I can fully stop the pre flowering by making sure the light source over the mum isn't strong , such as a CFL , and of course not root bound , if you let it veg big and healthy she stops doing this , the first seed wasn't the same but not at all as stinky ,we just made some new crosses , I've all so feminised the uk pineapple back on to the pynamite , we want some new verations of that gooey baby sick fruit syrup twang , pynamite kush

bigbadbiddy · Oct 25, 2016

Grojak said:
Now let me ask, why would you try any bubblegum but those 3 (Sagamartha, TH Seeds or Serious) knowing the above knowledge?

Because one can also know that all 3 of these "breeders" turned to shit and haven't preserved their strains, going more and more feminized and less and less actual breeding work and for years have been cashing in on past reputation and poorly informed newbies.

All 3 mentioned are has-beens and their genetics are no longer worth the asking price. There are better and often cheaper alternatives on the market.

Call it my opinion if you disagree.

Grojak · Oct 25, 2016

bigbadbiddy said:
Because one can also know that all 3 of these "breeders" turned to shit and haven't preserved their strains, going more and more feminized and less and less actual breeding work and for years have been cashing in on past reputation and poorly informed newbies.

All 3 mentioned are has-beens and their genetics are no longer worth the asking price. There are better and often cheaper alternatives on the market.

Call it my opinion if you disagree.

Show me a better bubblegum than Serious, still! All I see is folks not finding "bubblegum" in other genetics. I personally can't speak for Adam or Tony's cross though the poor indica bubblegum I've had possibly was from TH Seeds. I have no complaints and amazing results from Serious Bubblegum, you know it's shit because you grew it? You have a very strong opinion so what Serious have you grown?

bigbadbiddy · Oct 25, 2016

I went by a year of research and digesting grow reports from all around the web and then connecting the dots, supplementing it with what I know.

What I know first hand is that they fucked up the AK47 and the Nirvana F2s being sold back in the day were better AK47 than the Serious ones when they lost their parent(s) in a raid.

Researching the story and what happened with the AK47 (one of the all-star strains back when I started, think of OG Kush today, that's what AK47 used to be, everyone and their mother wanted it, it won all those cups and it was a great, great strain back then), resulted in me learning about so-called "breeders" and the very few actual breeders remaining in the business.

Sagarmatha is a thief (read up on the blueberry history and how DJ got robbed by them, although he got robbed by many others too, to be fair). Also they went the feminized route which is a sure indication (although not proof in itself) of a "breeder" cashing in and not doing any breeding work.

TH Seeds used to be solid and good as far as I can gather from online reports. But they recently announced that they will only produce feminized seeds going forward.
Pair that with more and more reports as the years go by where people only find sub-par or unexceptional plants in their seeds and complain about their purchases and you get a damning picture.

Serious is the same as TH Seeds. While they haven't gone full fem and certain strains in their stable seem to be well preserved (Kali Mist), even more strains, including their all-stars AK47 and Bubblegum, are clearly no longer the same and have been severely altered or "bred" to shit.

If you read the entire thread and only a few pages back, people seem to agree that while TH and/or Serious Bubblegum used to be pretty good, it still wasn't the same as the famed Indiana Bubblegum clone and you had to pop quite a few seeds to find something that can be considered "actual" Bubblegum. With their asking price, popping enough seeds wasn't an option for many.
Those that did it anyway came back very disappointed in the last 5 or 10 years or what.

Counter challenge (that I made a couple pages back):
Find me a grow report (ideally not from a newbie) within the last 5 years (with beans purchased/produced in the last 5 years) that praises the TH or Serious Bubblegum.

Spoiler: You won't. I scoured the web for a year to find it.

Even if you could, you would find 5 or 10 reports of people who damn these lines for hermies and generic shitty herb that is definitely nothing Bubblegum.

I wrote the strain off.
Until someone like weird produces some seeds based on the actual, proven Bubblegum clone, I hold the believe that growing a large quantity of Nirvana Bubblicious or White Label DoubleGum holds the best chance of finding something actually Bubblegum.

BOG might be another alternative. You can regard his seeds as going the White Label DoubleGum route and getting a head start of several years. At the cost of trusting his breeding decisions and knowing that he apparently had a tendency to bottleneck his beans more towards sour and menthol than sweet pink bubblegum (for which the Indiana Clone was apparently known for).

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to piss in your cereal or sour what you have.
You might well have a nice Bubblegum pheno from Serious. But you would be the exception. Most people don't find any in a pack, or even in 2 or 3.

Hearing recommendations for Sag, TH or Serious just rubs me the wrong way.

Grojak · Oct 25, 2016

bigbadbiddy said:
I went by a year of research and digesting grow reports from all around the web and then connecting the dots, supplementing it with what I know.

What I know first hand is that they fucked up the AK47 and the Nirvana F2s being sold back in the day were better AK47 than the Serious ones when they lost their parent(s) in a raid.

Researching the story and what happened with the AK47 (one of the all-star strains back when I started, think of OG Kush today, that's what AK47 used to be, everyone and their mother wanted it, it won all those cups and it was a great, great strain back then), resulted in me learning about so-called "breeders" and the very few actual breeders remaining in the business.

Sagarmatha is a thief (read up on the blueberry history and how DJ got robbed by them, although he got robbed by many others too, to be fair). Also they went the feminized route which is a sure indication (although not proof in itself) of a "breeder" cashing in and not doing any breeding work.

TH Seeds used to be solid and good as far as I can gather from online reports. But they recently announced that they will only produce feminized seeds going forward.
Pair that with more and more reports as the years go by where people only find sub-par or unexceptional plants in their seeds and complain about their purchases and you get a damning picture.

Serious is the same as TH Seeds. While they haven't gone full fem and certain strains in their stable seem to be well preserved (Kali Mist), even more strains, including their all-stars AK47 and Bubblegum, are clearly no longer the same and have been severely altered or "bred" to shit.

If you read the entire thread and only a few pages back, people seem to agree that while TH and/or Serious Bubblegum used to be pretty good, it still wasn't the same as the famed Indiana Bubblegum clone and you had to pop quite a few seeds to find something that can be considered "actual" Bubblegum. With their asking price, popping enough seeds wasn't an option for many.
Those that did it anyway came back very disappointed in the last 5 or 10 years or what.

Counter challenge (that I made a couple pages back):
Find me a grow report (ideally not from a newbie) within the last 5 years (with beans purchased/produced in the last 5 years) that praises the TH or Serious Bubblegum.

Spoiler: You won't. I scoured the web for a year to find it.

Even if you could, you would find 5 or 10 reports of people who damn these lines for hermies and generic shitty herb that is definitely nothing Bubblegum.

I wrote the strain off.
Until someone like weird produces some seeds based on the actual, proven Bubblegum clone, I hold the believe that growing a large quantity of Nirvana Bubblicious or White Label DoubleGum holds the best chance of finding something actually Bubblegum.

BOG might be another alternative. You can regard his seeds as going the White Label DoubleGum route and getting a head start of several years. At the cost of trusting his breeding decisions and knowing that he apparently had a tendency to bottleneck his beans more towards sour and menthol than sweet pink bubblegum (for which the Indiana Clone was apparently known for).

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to piss in your cereal or sour what you have.
You might well have a nice Bubblegum pheno from Serious. But you would be the exception. Most people don't find any in a pack, or even in 2 or 3.

Hearing recommendations for Sag, TH or Serious just rubs me the wrong way.

Why do I need a grow report when I have first hand experience (in case you missed that) growing Bubblegum within the last 5 years from seeds produced I assume within that same time frame. This ain't the first time I've praised bubblegum, you're just not looking hard enough.

Oh and do you believe everything you've read online?

I have been tempted in the past to purchase AK to see if it still has it. I never chased the AK, didn't have to circa 2000 we did White Rhino, AK, Sensi Star and White Shark and crossed a few of them so I know what AK was like.

So you've grown AK from seed in the last 5 years is what you're saying? What was wrong with it?

"Until someone like weird produces some seeds based on the actual, proven Bubblegum clone, I hold the believe that growing a large quantity of Nirvana Bubblicious or White Label DoubleGum holds the best chance of finding something actually Bubblegum."

LOL enjoy those...

"Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to piss in your cereal or sour what you have.
You might well have a nice Bubblegum pheno from Serious. But you would be the exception. Most people don't find any in a pack, or even in 2 or 3."

More internet garbage, you speak like you're knowledgable yet you have nothing but internet threads to base anything on, I get you have a vendetta against these old school companies and some of it may be warranted but c'mon man think for yourself, grow for yourself and KNOW for yourself.

There is much scientific study on the memory, it is well known yet not completely understood that we remember the past "happier" than we perceive the present. Ever witness adults or perhaps in highschool people talking about how great some cartoon or toy from their past was and how the cartoons were so much better when they were kids? This is the Nostalgia affect and I see it all over these boards and I get it but see it for what it is. People always trying to get a hold of that strain that put their dick in the dirt when they were 14, hell I remember those days and we had our hands on some good stuff but those rare high experiences are just that, rare high experiences.

Are there some strains that were better 15 years ago than now, well I can't really say because I don't have old and new to compare of anything and quite frankly even if I grew White Rhino or AK today I'm calling on a 15 year old memory to compare the two, not a very accurate way to compare.

Speaking of DJ he is one of those that folks say were better before he lost his male, I've heard him say that he has a 15 year old male but its the pre99 stuff folks are after, I've not popped new DJ beans so I can't compare it to the pre 99.

Grojak · Oct 25, 2016

@bigbadbiddy https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=312037 pulled the link from post #44 seems I'm not the only one having luck with Serious

bigbadbiddy · Oct 25, 2016

Sorry I am not interested in you or Serious so I can't really be bothered to win a pissing contest for imaginary internet points.
Hence I won't look for any links to post here.
Suffice it to say I did my research and my opinion was not formed on a single source, opinion or whatever.

It has developed over a year, in Serious' case over more than a decade.
If they were worth the 80 bucks for a 10 pack as they used to be, people would still be buying and growing it.
They don't (at least not in considerable numbers).

I said above regard it as my opinion if you don't like it.

Here is a quick summary by Mustafank that basically says it all.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=7671531&postcount=11
Most Dutch Seedbanks (like Sensi, GH, Serious, TH) never recovered from that.
Some (like Mr. Nice) did by moving their operations (although this seems debatable as Shanti was also incarcerated later in Switzerland and we have to either believe he has backup clones spread across continents or we don't. I haven't found many sources claiming to be disappointed by newer MRN stock but I have found people reporting changes in newer seed drops after Shantis incarceration. But most seem to arrive at the consensus that "when you popped 15 back in the day, you found 10 keepers, now you only find 7" or something along that line).
When you consider that seeds seem to often be in circulation for many years before being sold and planted, I guess the time-frame with people only realizing the fallout from this during the past few years fits as well.

Weird · Oct 25, 2016

truth and nfn almost all of the stock I run is from pre 99 genes

I did run dutch bank gear I was gifted in 08-09 (ss, hgfs, thseeds and dna) and ran a fair amount. Much of it was excellent.

Croissant · Oct 25, 2016

Magus were still getng stellar reviews post 2003. Even sensi maple leaf indica gets good reviews.

I remember historically on the forums when people started badmouthing the dutch seed banks. There was a combination of factors. A major one was 'buy american.' Most of the negative reports were of dutch passion sensi seeds and the loads of hate against greenhouse seed co.

People stopped reporting because everyone became obsessed with American clone only strains. There was a transition from NYCD to sour diesel. A bunch of Americans came online waving their dicks around because they had access to elite clone onlies. From that point forward it was katsu buba vs pre98, organ kid og vs sfv og vs Tahoe og. The white clone and UK cheese. Anytime anyone brought up a dutch strain it would be referenced as chick weed or weak then look at my big throbbing kush.

Heck the word 'dutch" even took on a negative conotation in a colonial sense. The word was the dutch stole all their genetics from California and now California is taking back the seed market. This was feuled by members like og rascal and obsoleet as a part of their marketing strategy.

In a lot of ways that is the point of this thread. To find the people that remember the good dutch strains from the 90s and earls 2000s before sourd and Chem this and Chem that. That ignore the hype of the bottle necking currently going on and took the plunge on pre-chemdawg strains with reviews.

In fact it is weird that I talk about prechemdawg strains the way oldtimers talk about pre indica days.

Weird · Oct 25, 2016

This thread should be about bubblegum not breeders.

the more people try to set the landscape of the breeder/grower reality to their own experience the worse this thread will get.

the Indiana bubblegum is an entity unto itself as is the SS bubblegum. Apples and Oranges.

When I ran serious gear in 08 (someone gifted me a couple thousand euro in seed https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=100855)

the bubblegum had a great buzz but the pheno I enjoyed was nothing like indiana bubblegum whatsoever.

The SS bubblegum with the good buzz was a sat pheno buzz and all, the indica pheno smelled like pink bublegum, didn't want to finish and was a pretty boring indica (indicas bore me as a rule) buzz but potent enough, taste was muted.

Croissant · Oct 25, 2016

Weird how many ssbg seeds did you go through?

Also I think it is important to contextualize certain discourses.

Such as BG or Bb or skunk never smelled like BG Bb or Skunk.

Or everything pre chemdawg is weak chickweed for newbies.

While yes their is the original Indiana bubble gum clone. Their are possibly still related parental lines being bred. Then their were the BG variants brought to the Netherlands and sold as seed. Then bog breeding with stock derived from that.

Most peoples BG experience will be with the latter. It would be nice to have a side by side with all the different kinds. There are just so many avenues to BG from different breeders we are bound to run into the various discourses and they are being addressed and should be contextualized. Because culture.

Weird · Oct 25, 2016

It is very hard to say a person gave the stock the right environmental to elicit the same results the breeder was experiencing.

It becomes too subjective.

I ran a small percentage of the seed and almost everything I popped came out great and if I wasn't being given cut after cut of keeper from my friends I would have kept some and of those I lost ones I wish I had kept for the long haul.

Traditionally if a plant doesn't come out nice I run it again to make sure it wasn't me.

For me, the true bubblegum is the indiana bubblegum. It has been around for a very long time, longer than breeders have been offering it.

In a bubblegum discourse I would think the only thing is have people gotten results that hit the mark and if so what breeder was it.

bringing dutch this or cali that is not productive, accurate or beneficial. In fact it is delusional.

The fact that so many cultures and communities have found unique valuable properties in all these various cultivars is a testimony of the magnificence of this plant and the abundance in its diversity.

No reason to make strains a sporting competition with a winner or a loser, they all have a place in the world.

ps. As an American I have huge amount of respect for the dutch masters, not only they only one on the map decades ago but many of the dutch offerings I have had are simply phenomenal so I respect the desire to defend a reputation but it should be a given at this point tbh, don't want to come off as conflictual

slipdefeu · Oct 25, 2016

Hey!

Never grown serious seeds, but lot of french growers tried to find a better keeper than bubble slard clone (supposed to be chosen between hundreds of girls in shchwitzd)
Feed backs were that it was no real bubble phéno with serious (>2000), maybe if you plans to pop tens of packs who knows :biggrin:

Croissant · Oct 25, 2016

Unfortunately capitalism does make it a competition with winners and losers. Because of that is all the marketing trends the Cali vs dutch and all that kind of stuff those various discourses come out of. Because those discourses effect market share value.

I'm just glad to hear reports of the terpene profile showing up in various seed offerings and that the original clone is still floating around. It needs to be s1'd for preservations sake.

Croissant · Oct 25, 2016

slipdefeu said:
Hey!

Never grown serious seeds, but lot of french growers tried to find a better keeper than bubble slard clone (supposed to be chosen between hundreds of girls in shchwitzd)
Feed backs were that it was no real bubble phéno with serious (>2000), maybe if you plans to pop tens of packs who knows

When they tried to find this better clone was it with >2000 seed stock?

therevverend · Oct 25, 2016

I've grown Bogglegum, it's great stuff but not true bubblegum. Has a noticeable body effect from the neck down I haven't gotten from bubblegum. Doesn't have that special smell and taste. When you sniff a bag of bubble you know what it is.

Brelva · Oct 25, 2016

In the mid to late 90's large amounts of both bubblegum and bubbleberry made their way through the festival scene (orange crush and williams wonder were a couple other big ones i remember) and although the bubblegum was true to its name the bubbleberry was actually better and was preferred over the straight bubblegum (or straight blueberry).

That bubbleberry had one of the nicest highs and tastes you could find at the time on the market. it just had this really feel good buzz and tasted almost exactly like that cotton candy flavored hubba bubba and was incredibly sticky. I remember it also had a skunky waft to it from further away.

No clue if the bubbleberry seeds that are on offer today are any good but that combo of bubblegum and blueberry definitely sticks out as a highlight from my smoking past.

I don't know exactly what this contributes to the thread but there ya go haha :tiphat:

slipdefeu · Oct 25, 2016

Croissant said:
When they tried to find this better clone was it with >2000 seed stock?

Of course, some nice phenos inside but nothing tastier than slard

Croissant · Oct 26, 2016

@slipdefdu

Tell me about this slard. What's it like and what's the backstory to slard?

@brevla

I remember that bubbelerry! Yeah, it was some of the best it was almost like laffy taffy in smell flavor and texture.

@thereverend

When did you try that bog bubble? How many seeds did you go through?

Can we discuss bubblegum?

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