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Yield Decrease w/ DE HPS from SE HPS???

A

AWDTERROR

Member
I am used to running single end eye hortilux hps bulbs with adjust a wings reflectors.
This year I updated to Nanolux DE HPS fixtures with the MaxPar DE bulbs they include(new version) in all my locations.
I usually average between 1-1.2GPW on single end and was expecting an increase in production with the switch to DE but everything has been averaging between 0.75-0.95.


I know I am using the crappy maxpar bulbs but they are the updated version the created after having problems with the old


I purchased Ushio and Phillips DE bulbs to test against the MaxPar bulbs but I am seeing absolutely no difference on output on my light meter between the 3 bulbs.

Is there a difference between the "quality" bulbs and the maxpar that's not quantifiable thru a light meter?


As always any help is greatly appreciated.
Thank you for your time!
 
Natural high

Natural high

Member
I believe the whole double-ended bulb, dimmable electronic ballast tech is purely BS and just successful marketing. 600w of HPS is just that, regardless of bulb or ballast architecture. I get better results with my mag ballast, SE bulb and adjust-wing than any of my mates with their fancy DE technology. And you should never dim a HPS bulb so why have the feature in the first place.

Your adjust-a-wings are probably a superior shade to the Nanolux because they spread the light and heat better with not so much of a hot spot.
 
A

AWDTERROR

Member
HqFarms said:
How much of a gap do you allow from light to top of canopy and how big of a foot print are you using?
Click to expand...



When running on 1000w
I leave betwee 3-4ft from canopy and cover 4x6 area
When running 750w
I leave between 2-2.5ft from canopy and it covers 4x4 area
 
A

AWDTERROR

Member
Natural high said:
I believe the whole double-ended bulb, dimmable electronic ballast tech is purely BS and just successful marketing. 600w of HPS is just that, regardless of bulb or ballast architecture. I get better results with my mag ballast, SE bulb and adjust-wing than any of my mates with their fancy DE technology. And you should never dim a HPS bulb so why have the feature in the first place.

Your adjust-a-wings are probably a superior shade to the Nanolux because they spread the light and heat better with not so much of a hot spot.
Click to expand...



Ya I really did have amazing results with my SE HPS on Adjust-a-wings. I hear your on successful marketing but I have plenty of friends that are seeing better results with them so I am just very confused.
 
Natural high

Natural high

Member
AWDTERROR said:
Ya I really did have amazing results with my SE HPS on Adjust-a-wings. I hear your on successful marketing but I have plenty of friends that are seeing better results with them so I am just very confused.
Click to expand...
Your 1.2g per watt is about as good as it gets with hps so you must have been doing something right. :tiphat:
 
Phaeton

Phaeton

Speed of Dark
Veteran
I swear something I am doing must be totally off. When I first checked my grams per watt in 2003 it was under 1/2 and I figured it was me.
In the years since it has run between .3 and .4 fairly consistently. .37g/watt come out exact for most of a year. Maybe I measure differently as I count total wattage of the seedling table, veg platform, bud prep, and bud room all together to get my average. If only the bud room wattage is used it goes up to a bit over a gram per watt but that ignores all the wattage the plants use in getting to the bud room, at times more than the budding itself.

The point I am trying for is the major lighting changes I have gone through during this time period.
Warehouse lowbay reflectors with standard multivapor HID was used for the first years.
4000K CMH was used for a couple years.
Blurple LED with full spectrum side lights were used 2011-2013.
"White" LED coupled with Blurple, CMH, Far Red, UVB, and side lighting is now in effect.

During this time the grams per watt remained consistent with my over all growing methods. Never falling below .3g/watt and never rising above .5g/watt
Setup has always been done with a light meter set (red,blue,UVB, PAR flux) and the spectrum ratios have been consistent as well.
The brand and/or style of the lights has not mattered if the spectrum hitting the plants is similar. A double ended arc tube versus a single ended bulb only matters if the reflector changes the pattern on the plant.

My nickel's worth used to be worth a chocolate bar, now not so much.
 
Natural high

Natural high

Member
Phaeton said:
Maybe I measure differently as I count total wattage of the seedling table, veg platform, bud prep, and bud room all together to get my average. If only the bud room wattage is used it goes up to a bit over a gram per watt but that ignores all the wattage the plants use in getting to the bud room, at times more than the budding itself.
Click to expand...
Grams per watt is only what you used when flowering the plant(s). For example, if I flower with 600 watts and I get 450 grams then I got 0.75g per watt.
 
A

AWDTERROR

Member
Phaeton said:
I swear something I am doing must be totally off. When I first checked my grams per watt in 2003 it was under 1/2 and I figured it was me.
In the years since it has run between .3 and .4 fairly consistently. .37g/watt come out exact for most of a year. Maybe I measure differently as I count total wattage of the seedling table, veg platform, bud prep, and bud room all together to get my average. If only the bud room wattage is used it goes up to a bit over a gram per watt but that ignores all the wattage the plants use in getting to the bud room, at times more than the budding itself.

The point I am trying for is the major lighting changes I have gone through during this time period.
Warehouse lowbay reflectors with standard multivapor HID was used for the first years.
4000K CMH was used for a couple years.
Blurple LED with full spectrum side lights were used 2011-2013.
"White" LED coupled with Blurple, CMH, Far Red, UVB, and side lighting is now in effect.

During this time the grams per watt remained consistent with my over all growing methods. Never falling below .3g/watt and never rising above .5g/watt
Setup has always been done with a light meter set (red,blue,UVB, PAR flux) and the spectrum ratios have been consistent as well.
The brand and/or style of the lights has not mattered if the spectrum hitting the plants is similar. A double ended arc tube versus a single ended bulb only matters if the reflector changes the pattern on the plant.

My nickel's worth used to be worth a chocolate bar, now not so much.
Click to expand...


Ya its just the flower room kw. Example: 72kw(72x 1kw lights) @ 1g/watt = 72000g or 159lbs total That would be how you would look at it
 
K

kelly1376

Member
To the OP, what reflector are you using now? The big adjust-a-wings do a good job spreading the light out wide. Are you using the same strains?

Phaeton, I guess your system is a lot more efficient than you thought :). I recall you're really pushing the limits as far as total umol. How many watts are you running and what is the square footage of your bud room?

On another note I found this little project someone put together forecasting expected yield based on square footage and lumens per square foot. It's not perfect but I like the way the project was put together:

https://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/yor/prodtable.htm
 
A

AWDTERROR

Member
kelly1376 said:
To the OP, what reflector are you using now? The big adjust-a-wings do a good job spreading the light out wide. Are you using the same strains?

Phaeton, I guess your system is a lot more efficient than you thought :). I recall you're really pushing the limits as far as total umol. How many watts are you running and what is the square footage of your bud room?

On another note I found this little project someone put together forecasting expected yield based on square footage and lumens per square foot. It's not perfect but I like the way the project was put together:

https://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/yor/prodtable.htm
Click to expand...


Nanolux DE reflector it looks like the gavita light. It broadcasts to 4x6. Ive been thinking about modifieng them so I can use them with the adjust-a-wings.


Ya phaeton when you do the numbers now, what is your GPW??
 
Phaeton

Phaeton

Speed of Dark
Veteran
AWDTERROR said:
Ya phaeton when you do the numbers now, what is your GPW??
Click to expand...

The growing area is nine foot by seven foot, counting the side lights the bud room runs 5600 watts in total and the harvests average 1278 grams for six plants, just over seven ounces per plant.
.28 grams/watt.
This is down from the first sixteen years, per plant ran from twelve to fourteen ounces then. Clones were chosen for large yields, seed plants do not yield as well. Clones can be anticipated and every need covered ahead of time, resulting in much larger plants and harvests.

I knew I was down, but this is worse than I thought, I have started selective cloning again and the numbers should start going up again over the next year.
Almost sorry I ran the numbers, ignorance is bliss sometimes.

When the change over from clones to seeds took place the lighting remained unchanged. Although I knew seed variation would result in smaller harvests I expected them to improve, no experience indicated this, wishful thinking only.
But HALF the yield? This is just not acceptable, even for the variety of flavors available. So it will be a tall strain and a short strain once again, chosen for strength and yield.

Lighting must be adequate, and the resources available make the choice one of personal preference, quality lighting is for sale everywhere.
 
zachrockbadenof

zachrockbadenof

Well-known member
Veteran
a question... in our flower room which is 10x12 in which we are using approx. 3/4 of the room for about 20plants per grow, we have '3' 1000watters... our production is way/way less then u guys - we try and keep the lights as close as possible usually within 24/30'' with fans blowing across the top to dissipate the heat.. are we keeping the lights tooo low??? I usually raise/lower the lights with the hand test under the light...thanks
 
A

AWDTERROR

Member
Phaeton said:
The growing area is nine foot by seven foot, counting the side lights the bud room runs 5600 watts in total and the harvests average 1278 grams for six plants, just over seven ounces per plant.
.28 grams/watt.
This is down from the first sixteen years, per plant ran from twelve to fourteen ounces then. Clones were chosen for large yields, seed plants do not yield as well. Clones can be anticipated and every need covered ahead of time, resulting in much larger plants and harvests.

I knew I was down, but this is worse than I thought, I have started selective cloning again and the numbers should start going up again over the next year.
Almost sorry I ran the numbers, ignorance is bliss sometimes.

When the change over from clones to seeds took place the lighting remained unchanged. Although I knew seed variation would result in smaller harvests I expected them to improve, no experience indicated this, wishful thinking only.
But HALF the yield? This is just not acceptable, even for the variety of flavors available. So it will be a tall strain and a short strain once again, chosen for strength and yield.

Lighting must be adequate, and the resources available make the choice one of personal preference, quality lighting is for sale everywhere.
Click to expand...


What are you lights off temps??? I see your in Alaska. That can really have an adverse effect on yield.
 
A

AWDTERROR

Member
zachrockbadenof said:
a question... in our flower room which is 10x12 in which we are using approx. 3/4 of the room for about 20plants per grow, we have '3' 1000watters... our production is way/way less then u guys - we try and keep the lights as close as possible usually within 24/30'' with fans blowing across the top to dissipate the heat.. are we keeping the lights tooo low??? I usually raise/lower the lights with the hand test under the light...thanks
Click to expand...



Are these 1000watters at 24/30" and if so are they open hoods no glass?


If so that's WAY too close and it will definitely hurt your yields
 
zachrockbadenof

zachrockbadenof

Well-known member
Veteran
AWDTERROR said:
Are these 1000watters at 24/30" and if so are they open hoods no glass?


If so that's WAY too close and it will definitely hurt your yields
Click to expand...


yes they are 1000w with open hood, no glass- we have fans blowing over them to push away the heat... should they be raised??
 
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