NO more drugs for foreigners in the south of holland since 1st of may

Hydrosun · May 17, 2012

neuroherb said:
Hey Hydrosun

I think there is enough info in my previous posts or sig to see I support full legalisation for anybody considered of age to drink. MMJ IMHO is often just used as a smokescreen (Pun intended) but I would not deny use of cannabis to anyone I just consider that MMJ is as much a system for state goverment to placate cannabis users as a means to divert support from full legalisation by providing a step they hope will satisfy most and reduce the demands from those that want full legalisation.

However there has to be some common sense in prescribing for example morphine would easily cure a headache but as paracetamol would do the same job without any of the side effects then most responsible doctors would prescribe that first. Cannabis can be used for asthma as a bronchial dialator especially for those whose asthma is like my own where you get full of glut in the lungs as you sleep(The cannabis helps cough the crap out in the morning), However so does Ventolin Salbutamol. Is it then proper prescribing policies to recommend cannabis because the patients claims it is suitable before trying the Ventolin Salbutamol considering cannabis does have additional effects not consistent with benefiting asthma. You only have to watch a documentary on MMJ to see that many of the people with MMJ certification simply see it as a means to smoke legally and are not that concerned regarding clinical need however I would agree this is not so for many such as cancer patients whose introduction to cannabis is via medical clinical need.

If we agree than any adult has the natural born right to use this flower as he or she sees fit THEN we CANNOT allow any government to deny any adult. THEREFORE we cannot be accepting of a government run prescription or medical cannabis program.

I want to free the weed just like you, but government interference has no part in freedom, also all cannabis smoking is legal under NATURAL LAW, so we need not concern ourselves with the motivations or health profile of ANY human consuming this flower.

So lets agree to agree and keep government out of it

neuroherb · May 17, 2012

Hydrosun said:
If we agree than any adult has the natural born right to use this flower as he or she sees fit THEN we CANNOT allow any government to deny any adult. THEREFORE we cannot be accepting of a government run prescription or medical cannabis program.

I want to free the weed just like you, but government interference has no part in freedom, also all cannabis smoking is legal under NATURAL LAW, so we need not concern ourselves with the motivations or health profile of ANY human consuming this flower.

So lets agree to agree and keep government out of it

Unfortunately its probably not politicians in the UK that are the driving force behind reclassification or keeping it ilegal, thats probably more down to the way the news papers portray anything other than prohibition even the PM has previously argued in favour of decriminalisation when in a back bench committee. If the UK government was to promote decriminalisation then the Daily Mail would find anyone that had once used cannabis as a pathetic defence in a court case or used it as an excuse for why they took hard drugs and they would portray the politicians as purveyors of evil drugs. Newspapers like a good hysteria campaign and politicians fear bad publicity so here is hoping the Levison enquiry puts the red tops back in their place as the reporters of news not the creators of campaigns to influence goverment.

stasis · May 17, 2012

It is like there are several Universal things that happen in "Grey Area" locales..

Regardless of any majority or minority, the local Media(s) portray 420 as a hard drug, or something irresponsible people use. Northern California is a perfect example. Local newspapers are liberally peppered with Anti-Pot articles, when in many cases, a Majority of the people in the area are FOR MMJ...!

A robbery at a Medical Marijuana Dispensary gets protracted press, but that same occurence at a Liquor store - barely a mention.

All this "Double-speak" is endemic of a '1984-style' government, where peace=war, and intolerance is the new stand on tolerance. We, as Sheep are swayed by the Semantics used to portray these campaigns...

Worst-Case scenarios are played out for us, but somehow never seem to occur. Even in the semi-Lawless Wild WIld West... But definitely in the rather civil provinces in The Netherlands, where things proceed pretty much smoothly day-after-day.

Street-Dealing WILL make the Naysayers change their tune.. Because it is "In-their-Face," and impossible to ignore. When they drive (or walk) through town (I have been in Maastricht) they will see it - and make their Screwface...
Realizing that they no longer feel as safe on foot, in their classic Burg..!

So, we will ALL then agree, Street-Dealing is not as desirable as "Retail-Outlets..!"

It is wise - come to think of it - for the shops in Maastricht and elsewhere to shut temporarily, instead of forcefully being closed (which may be more permanent due to drama at the location) - this allows then the option to see what happens next..

HempKat · May 18, 2012

neuroherb said:
Hey Hydrosun

I think there is enough info in my previous posts or sig to see I support full legalisation for anybody considered of age to drink. MMJ IMHO is often just used as a smokescreen (Pun intended) but I would not deny use of cannabis to anyone I just consider that MMJ is as much a system for state goverment to placate cannabis users as a means to divert support from full legalisation by providing a step they hope will satisfy most and reduce the demands from those that want full legalisation.

However there has to be some common sense in prescribing for example morphine would easily cure a headache but as paracetamol would do the same job without any of the side effects then most responsible doctors would prescribe that first. Cannabis can be used for asthma as a bronchial dialator especially for those whose asthma is like my own where you get full of glut in the lungs as you sleep(The cannabis helps cough the crap out in the morning), However so does Ventolin Salbutamol. Is it then proper prescribing policies to recommend cannabis because the patients claims it is suitable before trying the Ventolin Salbutamol considering cannabis does have additional effects not consistent with benefiting asthma. You only have to watch a documentary on MMJ to see that many of the people with MMJ certification simply see it as a means to smoke legally and are not that concerned regarding clinical need however I would agree this is not so for many such as cancer patients whose introduction to cannabis is via medical clinical need.

I agree with the point your making in general but wanted to comment on the picture you say MMJ documentaries paint. Consider the possibility that while seeming to be a factual accounting MMJ documentaries are often propaganda from the people opposed to MMJ. From the people I know who seriously depend on MMJ as medicine (people who didn't smoke before they started using marijuana for health problems) rather then a way to get high legally they would be very unlikely to participate in a documentary due to the stigma still attached to marijuana use.

neuroherb · May 19, 2012

HempKat said:
I agree with the point your making in general but wanted to comment on the picture you say MMJ documentaries paint. Consider the possibility that while seeming to be a factual accounting MMJ documentaries are often propaganda from the people opposed to MMJ. From the people I know who seriously depend on MMJ as medicine (people who didn't smoke before they started using marijuana for health problems) rather then a way to get high legally they would be very unlikely to participate in a documentary due to the stigma still attached to marijuana use.

I'm pretty sure in all comments made about MMJ I accept that those who came to it solely as a medicine are using it for that specific reason and I know from sources in Canada it is much harder to get on their federal Helth canada MMJ programme. The BBC has actually had a couple of pro cannabis presenters come over to the USA to check into MMJ and the sniggering from those they spoke to while claiming they were 'patients' was pretty obvious. I'm pretty sure there are plenty doctors who would happily prescribe MMJ just because a person has been smoking cannabis for years and can't get to sleep without it. But this thread is actually about the weedpass in the Netherlands not the pros and cons of MMJ it was only used as a comparison system to the weedpass.

HempKat · May 19, 2012

neuroherb said:
I'm pretty sure in all comments made about MMJ I accept that those who came to it solely as a medicine are using it for that specific reason and I know from sources in Canada it is much harder to get on their federal Helth canada MMJ programme. The BBC has actually had a couple of pro cannabis presenters come over to the USA to check into MMJ and the sniggering from those they spoke to while claiming they were 'patients' was pretty obvious. I'm pretty sure there are plenty doctors who would happily prescribe MMJ just because a person has been smoking cannabis for years and can't get to sleep without it. But this thread is actually about the weedpass in the Netherlands not the pros and cons of MMJ it was only used as a comparison system to the weedpass.

Okay but I wasn't discussing the pros and cons of MMJ I was commenting on your assertion that all one needs do to see that many use MMJ as a way to get a legal high is to watch an MMJ Documentary. To which I'm pointing out that many "MMJ Documentaries" are really anti MMJ propaganda and so they deliberately focus on the people who are really just taking advantage of the system.

As for your comparing it to the Weedpass I guess you missed where I said at the very beginning "I agree with the point you're making in general..."

neuroherb · May 19, 2012

No worries hempkat we are generally in agreement, but any confusion is caused by those living in the MMJ states themselves.
Here is the link to where it first became a point of discussion in the thread.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=5105325&postcount=37
where the comment

Hey Holland - Now Cali Gets The Tourists Instead

Where the impression is given that like Amsterdam is at present a tourist can come to the location and purchase cannabis from a registered premises when that is not the case. Some documentaries maybe propoganda and if I was registered for MMJ I certainly wouldn't take part as I wouldn't want my worklife disrupted, but the constant propoganda on forums like ICMAG promoting Cali's MMJ system in comparison to the Netherlands tolerance policy shows a lack of understanding regarding MMJ by those who live in the states that actually permit it.

rixxy24 · May 19, 2012

merkins

merkins

stasis said:
Of course, I wish things were happening in a different way.. In my favorite EU Country.

But, at least politicians are a BIT more honest... In the YouEssAy, there would be propaganda and lies, in the mainstream media at least. Which is what 99% of 'Merkins depend on for Current Events..

Lol merkin -pubic wig!

mexcurandero420 · May 19, 2012

Finally the DEA has conquered the Dutch political system, but for how long.What i read is that street dealers are making their move in the south thanks to the lack of enforcement.Amsterdam can also kiss their tourism goodbye.

[YOUTUBEIF]aGmAmJFUvzM#![/YOUTUBEIF]

Keep on growing

Harry Gypsna · May 19, 2012

mexcurandero420 said:
Finally the DEA has conquered the Dutch political system, but for how long.What i read is that street dealers are making their move in the south thanks to the lack of enforcement.Amsterdam can also kiss their tourism goodbye.

[YOUTUBEIF]aGmAmJFUvzM#![/YOUTUBEIF]

Keep on growing

No--this is not the DEA..it is a combination of locals pissed off with idiotic behaviour, and pressure from belgium and germany, and the EU.

lost in a sea · May 19, 2012

yeah lol we dont need the DEA to fuck things up in europe,, this is the home of the fat cat political class..

mexcurandero420 · May 19, 2012

Harry Gypsna said:
No--this is not the DEA..it is a combination of locals pissed off with idiotic behaviour, and pressure from belgium and germany, and the EU.

The Cannabis task force in Holland is trained by the DEA, so is also one members of the Freedom Party well actually Party of Prohibition who is against coffeeshops, recreational use of Cannabis etc.

FBI Academy / DEA Opleiding, Clandestine Laboratory Investigative Safety School (USA, Quantico, 1993)

Keep on growing

lost in a sea · May 19, 2012

they work together because they are all owned by the same people, but the DEA doesnt call the shots in europe..

HempKat · May 19, 2012

Yeah I have to agree, many of us here in America automatically assume the DEA has that much influence and power around the world because of some of the things they've done in Central and South America as well as Canada but America doesn't have that much influence over places like the Netherlands.

No this business in Amsterdam comes from people cut from the same cloth as those who support prohibition in America. Which also lend itself to the assumption by Americans this has to be DEA driven because it just feels so familiar to us.

DIDM · May 20, 2012

to think that the US runs the world is hilarious

to think that they don't have a hand in determining drug laws around the world is also a joke

The US is a foreign aid king, and if you want that aid you play by their rules

HempKat · May 20, 2012

DIDM said:
to think that the US runs the world is hilarious

to think that they don't have a hand in determining drug laws around the world is also a joke

The US is a foreign aid king, and if you want that aid you play by their rules

Yeah this is true but the Netherlands is one of the few countries among Sweden, Denmark, Norway and Luxembourg, that combined recieve less then 1% of foreign aid from the US. So there is little power the US has over policy in The Netherlands.

stasis · May 20, 2012

rixxy24 said:
Lol merkin -pubic wig!

I know. haha... that's why there is an apostrophe before the word..!

mexcurandero420 · May 20, 2012

Read this article, it is in Dutch, but you can translate it in English

http://www.nu.nl/politiek/2481241/opstelten-blijft-vertrouwen-in-dea.html

Met name André Rouvoet van de ChristenUnie is bezorgd door verhalen dat de Amerikaanse Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) te veel op eigen houtje in ons land werkt.

Especially Andre Rouvoet of the Christian Union is concerned about the stories that the DEA operates in our country to much on their own.

Keep on growing

Harry Gypsna · May 20, 2012

Providing operational training is not the same as setting policy, although it has a small effect in that direction.
The Netherlands is not Sweden.
As far as aid goes the Netherlands is not Nepal

BillyBadGrower · May 20, 2012

the "aid" is probably military aid, planes n shit like that.

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