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Making a Medicial Marijuana Friendly PGR Regimen

dizzlekush

Member
Fimming and Findings

Fimming and Findings

ok, well all the ladies got F.I.M.ed today. so far no significant differences have arisen in growth rates, however i have noticed that the Triacontanol (even the lowest dose) seems to increase phototropism quite a bit.

im using T5s for vegetative growth. since they have next to zero heat i lower the lights to about 3-4" above the plants. this shades the outer edge of the plants at the perimeter of the lights footprint. on all the TRIA dosed plants the leaves on the outer edge that are shaded (but not the inner illuminated edges) have angled themselves to a near vertical level (praying some call it) and are now getting more light than the plants that were not dosed with TRIA, which have horizontal (not praying) outer leaves. which is what brought me to the conclusion that TRIA increases phototropism.
 
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dizzlekush

Member
Possible ways to increase trichome production

Possible ways to increase trichome production

Been looking into possibly increasing trichome production and ran across 3 chemicals that might have some benefits: [alpha-]Linolenic Acid (ALA), 12-oxo-phytodienoic acid (OPDA,12-Oxo-PDA), and Jasmonic Acid Carboxyl Methyltransferase (JMT)


Alpha-Linolenic Acid
(ALA)- is a polyunsaturated omega 3 fatty acid that is found in varying amounts in plants. It has several uses for plants, mostly being a precursor to different chemicals that mediate defense related responses. One of the groups of chemicals which ALA is a precursor to is the Jasmonates. Its very unlikely that ALA by itself will have any effect on trichome production, and also a possibility that applying ALA might be completely pointless, but co-applying it with several other chemicals might put more "gas in the tank" as they say.


12-Oxo-phytodienoic acid (OPDA)- derived from ALA, OPDA is the first metabolically active jasmonate made in the
Octadecanoid Pathway. OPDA is a precursor to Jasmonic Acid (JA) and is the reason why ALA is added to the list. Plant Growth Regulators are mainly driven by 2 things, gene activation and gene suppression. OPDA has shown to be a very powerful (possibly the most powerful) chemical for activating specific jasmonate related genes that increase conversion from ALA to JA. Spraying the plant with OPDA is giving the plant what it needs to increase its production of the metabolite (JA) endogenously all by itself through gene activation as well as providing a precursor (itself) to JA. However OPDA needs ALA to make JA (re production via gene activation), so co-applications of ALA and OPDA might possibly show more benefits than standalone OPDA applications.


Jasmonic Acid Carboxyl Methyltransferase (JMT)- the enzyme that converts JA into MeJA (Methyl Jasmonate, the jasmonate that increases trichome production). Studies have shown JMT to triple endogenous levels of MeJA without effecting overall levels of endogenous jasmonates. Applications of MeJA induce endogenous JMT production, which in turn catalyzes endogenous MeJA production from JA. *Undoubtedly JMT has use in our field of growing. Unfortunately i doubt its purchasable, unlike ALA and OPDA.


Its important to note that applications of OPDA by itself do not increase JMT production. So by logic OPDA applications will increase JA production, but not MeJA (or trichome) production when applied by itself. However co-applications of OPDA and MeJA or JMT* (possibly MDHJ) should increase both JA and JMT production and therefore have synergistic effects on trichome production. To simplify, applications of ALA are unlikely to increase JA production (making it useless) without being co-applied with OPDA; and OPDA will not increase JMT production, MeJA production, or trichome production (making it useless as well) without being co-applied with MeJA, JMT*, or possibly MDHJ.


Sorry about the alphabet soup. Hope it makes at least a little bit of sense.
 

homebrew420

Member
this is so very intriguing. I will be watching with anticipation as you move through this experiment. Thank you for your time spent on this subject. I feel it sad that it is so rare anyone is doing things like this. Guess I found the propper hangout.

Thanks
Peace
 

dan_1

Member
Looking forward to your finding. This is why I love this site. People aren't afraid to try new things.
 

IMO

Member
any chance you could post your sources? lovin the legwork and info, seems very well thought out. definitely taking the right approach.
 

dizzlekush

Member
12-Oxo-Phytodienoic Acid

12-Oxo-Phytodienoic Acid

12-0x0-PDA is the first cyclopentenone in the jasmonate pathway... 12-Oxo-PDA, along with its metabolite, JA (collectively termed jasmonates), either directly or indirectly triggers gene activation, which leads to a local defense response...Thus far, the relative contribution of 12-0x0-PDA and JA to gene activation within the plant is unknown (Fig. 1).
Since 12-0x0-PDA is the first bioactive jasmonate in the biosynthetic sequence and displays a greater potency than JA (Weiler et al., 1993; Blechert et al., 1995), it is necessary to measure the intracellular accumulation of 12-0x0-PDA together with JA in response to elicitors or wounding...

Suitability of the method for isolation and determination of 12-0x0-PDA and JA by GC-MS was assessed by analyzing cells from Tinospora cordifolia (8 g fresh weight) spiked with 100 ng of the internal standards dihydro-JA and 12-oxo-PDAand various concentrations of 12-0x0-PDA and JA ranging from 25 to 1000 ng. After an initial peak of 12-0x0-PDA and JA a more or less pronounced, second increase of one or both of these molecules was observed (Figs. 3 and 4). In all cases, the increase of 12-0x0-PDA either preceded the increase of JA or accumulated concurrently, which is consistent with the model of de novo synthesis of JA from a-linolenic acid via 12-0x0-PDA....

Since 12-0x0-PDA appears to be a stronger signal in the induction of secondary metabolites and in the Bryonia dioica tendril coiling assay, it has been suggested that 12-0x0-PDA is the primary gene-activating signal (Weiler et al., 1993; Blechert et al., 1995). This hypothesis has been strengthened by the finding that analogs of 12-oxo-PDA, such as methyl trihomojasmonate, that cannot undergo P-oxidation to form JA are as active as JA in these bioassays (Blechertet al., 1995)... The secondary metabolite inducing activity of 12-0x0-PDA was recently compared with JA in 165 different cultured plant species. Applied at the same concentration as JA, 12-0x0-PDA almost always caused a greater increase in secondary metabolite formation in those cell cultures that responded to jasmonates (84% of all cultures) (H. Gundlach, and M.H. Zenk, unpublished results). Thus, evidence is accumulating that 12-0x0-PDA in itself is a gene-activating compound that does not need to be metabolized to JA to become biologically active.


Where to Purchase:
(Cayman Chemical is not an easy source to purchase from)

OPDA
http://www.caymanchem.com/app/template/Product.vm/catalog/88520

13-epi-OPDA (more molecular stability)
http://www.caymanchem.com/app/template/Product.vm/catalog/10195
 

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dizzlekush

Member
Jasmonic Acid Carboxyl Methyltransferase

Jasmonic Acid Carboxyl Methyltransferase

Transgenic Arabidopsis overexpressing JMT had a 3-fold elevated level of endogenous methyl jasmonate without altering jasmonic acid content... Activation of JMT expression leads to production of methyl jasmonate that could act as an intracellular regulator, a diffusible intercellular signal transducer, and an airborne signal mediating intra- and interplant communications....

JMT expression was induced by wounding or MeJA treatment but not by ethylene (Fig. ​(Fig.33C), exhibiting similar to the expression pattern of the JA-inducible gene JR2 (29). JMT was not induced when plants were treated with both MeJA and ethylene, whereas PDF1.2 was synergistically induced by this treatment. JMT was also induced in distal leaves systemically by wounding or MeJA treatment, but not by 12-oxo-PDA...

We propose here that JMT is a key enzyme for the jasmonate-regulated plant responses and that MeJA can act as an intracellular regulator, a diffusible intercellular signal transducer, or an airborne signal mediating intra- and interplant communications. Some signals generated during an early event of developmental processes or defense responses may activate JMT that can self-amplify, stimulate, or regulate its own expression, propagating the MeJA-mediated cellular responses throughout whole plants

http://www.pnas.org/content/98/8/4788.full
 

dizzlekush

Member
Triacontanol Dosage Experiment - 2nd Dosage

Triacontanol Dosage Experiment - 2nd Dosage

The original plan for the TRIA experiment was to do applications every 14 days, but due to a certain crisis in a loved ones life, my life and garden had to be shelved for 2 weeks. The earliest I was able to do the 2nd TRIA dosage was yesterday, 29 days after the first TRIA dosage instead of the intended 14 days, so i essentially missed 1 TRIA dosage that i intended the plants to get. So they will be getting 3 TRIA doses instead of 4.

The plants are beginning their bloom cycle today, which i consider not optimal with the 2nd TRIA dosage being yesterday but i don't have any choice with my time constraints.

At 29 days after the first dosage, there is a noticeable difference between the plants dosed with TRIA and those not. The plants dosed have a darker leaf pigment (i.e. higher Chlorophyll content) and an increased amount of leaves, where there is no noticeable difference yet in plant size or root mass.Since i am currently swamped with a harvest, i cannot do any kind of scientific quantification of growth between the different TRIA test groups at this time in their growth.


-Due to recent events in my life and on ICMag, i will be posting less, and limiting my posting to mainly this thread and Sub-forum.-
 

dizzlekush

Member
A Conclusion To The Current Triacontanol Dosage Experiment

A Conclusion To The Current Triacontanol Dosage Experiment

~21 days after the last TRIA dosage the plants in the .75ppm and 1.0ppm test groups were doing significantly better than all other test groups. Since my garden is more than just a testing grounds, and also how i obtain my medicine, i have decided to not draw out the TRIA experiment when some very obvious superior application rates have arisen. so i have decided to dose all plants with 1.0ppm TRIA for their last dosage today.

I have added saponins derived from yucca and soapbark to the mix for wetting/sticking agents in the form of "B'Cuzz Foliar Boost" (SaferGro Natural Wet is my #1 choice) to optimize cuticular penetration.

The conclusions that i have derived from this experiment is that .75ppm is the minimum dosage to see significantly increased growth (at least with my test/garden conditions), while i will need to do a different TRIA dosage to experiment to find if >.75ppm can optimize results even further.

The next dosage experiment will likely be 0.0ppm, .75ppm, 1.0ppm, 1.25ppm and 1.5ppm and will have more homogeneous test groups since there will not be an overlapping soil-less medium experiment.
 

homebrew420

Member
Hey Dizzle, again very interesting thread. From what I can gather 1.0-1.25ppm TRIA was optimal on some of the other sites. There is a yahoo group that messes with PGR's and post alot of interesting info. Geared more towards other plants but all still relevant. Please keep us informed here.
Thanks

Peace
 

blueberrydrumz

Active member
ICMag Donor
Hey Dizzle, again very interesting thread. From what I can gather 1.0-1.25ppm TRIA was optimal on some of the other sites. There is a yahoo group that messes with PGR's and post alot of interesting info. Geared more towards other plants but all still relevant. Please keep us informed here.
Thanks

Peace

good thread...
Does anyone know how many grams of Alfa Alfa meal one needs to use to get about 1 ppm of TRIA.. im a bit worried that i apply to much TRIA without knowing it...
a big handfull Alfa Alfa in a sock + molasses + kelp bubbled 36hrs max... but having good results

peace
 

supermanlives

Active member
Veteran
on a slightly different note ive been interested in using Copper Hydroxide as a chemical root pruner in the form of TexR Agroliner Bags. now i dont think Copper Hydroxide is considered a PGR per se, but it does regulate plant growth and im interested if its safe for medical marijuana to be grown with it. its seems safe since the copper hydroxide is effective by terminating root tips it comes into contact with... making it unavailable to the plant unless im missing something there. and even if it did get absorbed the plant would show some signs of heavy metal toxicity wouldn't it?, which would be a big red flag and prolly the end of the company that makes them... so it seems harmless, but copper hydroxide doesn't seem to be legal for use on consumable crops... any thoughts out there?
is it the same as spin out. uncle ben turned me on to trying it when cw was around. was great for plants that you werent gonna transplant . but i transplant alot so i found no benefit. dont know if its safe for weed. think it was designed for long term plants. been a while since i used it
 

420247

Plant Whisperer
Veteran
is it the same as spin out. uncle ben turned me on to trying it when cw was around. was great for plants that you werent gonna transplant . but i transplant alot so i found no benefit. dont know if its safe for weed. think it was designed for long term plants. been a while since i used it

I remember uncle ben growing some great looking sweet tooth #3's in 5gal pots using spin out :) Thank you for the memory supermanlives :wave:
 

dizzlekush

Member
Testing 24-Epibrassinolide

Testing 24-Epibrassinolide

The next PGR I will be testing is 24-epibrassinolide, the best and most tested of the synthetic brassinosteroids. Since epibrassinolide is VERY expensive (~$2,000 a gram), has to be stored at below freezing temperatures and is fairly difficult to make proper formulations with, i decided to go with the only pre-formulated epibrassinolide product i know of, 'Epin'. Epin is a Russian/Belarusian product consisting of .025% 24-epibrassinolide that is sold in 1ml vials, made available in the U.S. by the online company TopTropicals.

I recently obtained 5 vials of Epin and am going to start testing on cannabis soon. There is only 1 source (Dr. R Bhardwaj) that mentions the concentration of Epin, the mentioned concentration being .025% epibrassinolide. Until we find someone that speaks Belarusian or Russian that could assist in verifying this, we will just have to assume his information is accurate.

The concentrations of 24-Epibrassinolide [Epin] i will be testing are:

0.025ppm [0.1ml/L]
0.050ppm [0.2ml/L]
0.075ppm [0.3ml/L]
0.100ppm [0.4ml/L]

as well as a control group that will be sprayed with distilled water and the same dosage of non-ionic surfactant.

The English instructions from TopTropicals call for a 1ml/Gallon dilution which is ~.066ppm epibrassinolide. I will be using distilled water and co-applying with a currently undecided non-ionic surfactant. Fans will be turned off and lights will be raised for spraying right before lights turn off and fans will remain off and lights raised until all spray solution has been absorbed/evaporated to allow for maximum absorption. Application will take place 4-5 days after clones have been transplanted into larger pots and re-application will continue every 3 weeks of vegetative growth. Testing during the first 2 weeks of bloom will take place once an optimum dosage is obtained.

Im currently waiting on the test groups to experiment on. I just had a cloning disaster and am out a generation of plants now. to get anywhere near back on schedule, im going to have to pretty much kill my only mother to get the proper amount (60+) of clones now.
 

dizzlekush

Member
24-Epibrassinolide Experimentation - Day 1

24-Epibrassinolide Experimentation - Day 1

Today the 24-Epibrassinolide (EBL) experimentation started. The test groups will made up of 58 clones, 30 Blueberry Diesel and 28 Bubblegum. The clones were transplanted into 1 gallon pots of Sunshine #4 5 days before EBR application. The test groups are as follows:

6 Blueberry Diesel & 6 Bubblegum were treated with ~.025ppm EBR
6 Blueberry Diesel & 6 Bubblegum were treated with ~.050ppm EBR
6 Blueberry Diesel & 6 Bubblegum were treated with ~.075ppm EBR
6 Blueberry Diesel & 6 Bubblegum were treated with ~.100ppm EBR
6 Blueberry Diesel & 4 Bubblegum were treated with the same solution as the other groups with no EBR added.

All applications were to the foliage. Distilled water was used and was amended with Polysorbate 20 at ~550ppm and saponins (derived from yucca) at ~250ppm. To prolong evaporation lights and fans were turned off before application and lights remained off for 8 hours and were raised when turned on again. Fans remained off for 24 hours. Application took place once the sun had set and night temperatures had declined, again to prolong evaporation.

The Bubblegum's were micropropagated by myself and had an application of ~.75ppm Triacontanol 10 days before EBR application, while the Blueberry Diesel were not treated with Triacontanol and are growing at a much slower rate currently.

Stay tuned for results.
 

dizzlekush

Member
I just really have to reiterate how impressed i am with the improvement im getting with .75-1.0ppm TRIA. As mentioned before i sprayed the cuttings that i micro-propagated myself with .75ppm. When i purchased the 2nd set of clones, they were larger and significantly better rooted than my cuttings. Since then my TRIA treated clones have grown significantly taller than the non TRIA treated clones and have ~200% more leaves than the non TRIA treated ones.

Now my intentions this run are to quantify the effects of different doses of 24-epibrassinolide (in the form of Epin) on cannabis but so far the results have been rather unimpressive. I wasn't planning on applying any more TRIA as to have as few variables muddying the results of my experiment as i could. But the TRIA treated group was doing so much better than the other that i decided to do a TRIA application to all of my plants.

So i mixed up a batch of the TRIA at 1.0ppm along with 550ppm polysorbate 20 and 250ppm of saponins. Fans and lights were turned off and remained off for 6 hours during and after application. By the time the lights turned on, already a significant difference was noticeable in all the plants, all the leaves were 'perky', where before there was some slight leaf tip/serration down-curl and the leaves were slightly droopy. I check in 16 hours later and there are 2 new sets of leaves on all of the plants! im not CO2 supplementing, temps are around 65F (about 20F south of where you want it) VPD is low for cannabis, and im growing in Sunshine #4 under HOT5's. To say the least... im not providing an environment currently that should be seeing that kind of accelerated growth.

Color me highly impressed with Triacontanol.
 

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