Some kind of virus or deficency? Need help!!!!

romuros · Aug 28, 2018

Hi
Does anybody have any idea what can cause this kind of deformation?
Plants are in soil watering with gh bloom and micro in ratio ½. I water them by hands and they got 1.5 liters on two days.
I have a temps problem since we are in the middle of the summer.
They are 4th week of flowering under 6x600w hps.
I have checked with microscope for any pests but didn’t find any.
They are having same problems since i got clones. Some of plants are perfectly healthy but most of them are having same problems.
Any idea what is this?

Lost in a SOG · Aug 28, 2018

Errrmm I'm thinking it looks pH related.

When you say soil what exactly do you mean?

What are you feeding at pH wise?

What is your humidity and temps doing?

romuros · Aug 28, 2018

They are in plagron grow mix. I have temps up to 36c when lights on and 26c when off.
I give them whet and dry cycles. Humitity is around 50-60%. We have realy good tap wather so i dont check on ph. I foud that might be tobacco mosaic virus but more i research mor it looks like a myth.
But on the other hand looks like it spreading from plant to plant. I had a same simptons when i had broadmites so i checked for pests first and they are clean.
Of 24 ther are 14 plants that are not affected.

Lost in a SOG · Aug 28, 2018

36 is well too high btw for plants to not get a nute deficiency.. 28 tops for healthy VPD and even then to not get an issue your humidity needs to be much higher.. Immobile nutrients need ideal transpiration..

Id also flush through with water and see how much the pH water changes between what you put in.. 6.5-6.8 pH water..

Creeperpark · Aug 29, 2018

What kind of water are you using? If using rain, distilled, or RO water, always add Cal Mag to it. I seen 2 kinds of cal mag on the market. One with N and One with out. N in Veg and without N for flowering. Looks like a Calcium Def. to me.

Creeperpark · Aug 29, 2018

What kind of water are you using? If using rain, distilled, or RO water, I always add Cal Mag to it. Between 60 and 120 PPMs in soil grows. Looks like a Calcium Def. or lock-out to me because of the photo with the leaf curling way to the side. Catch some of the runoff and see what your PPMs are, as well as PH.

Crooked8 · Aug 29, 2018

This is “tobacco mosaic virus” it is very common with Ogs. In my experience its just a mutation that occurs that can cause dudded branches.....or none at all. I have a beloved Og that presents this regularly and Ive had tons of others that did this too. All of them with relatively different amounts of dudding. The current Og i have has only shown me one or two dudded branches in years.

Lost in a SOG · Aug 29, 2018

As far as I'm aware tobacco mosaic has only ever been suspected and never proven or anything through a lab to be legitimately in any lines. If any one has any proof that the variegation/chlorosis seen on some cannabis lines is actually TMV I'd love to see it. I thought it had basically been debunked as genetic issues from poor cloning and a nute def related to calcium..

In a decent soil mix there should be enough calcium but it isn't very available in low pH obviously and some mediums hold on to extra calcium and easily lock it up. Since its immobile ideal conditions for fast transpiration are more ideal during very fast growth, ideal VPD.

The ideal cation exchange in soil should be considerable in calcium and with bottled nutes if you drive them really hard you are likely to see calcium being a limiting factor..

Really feeding bottled nutes into soil or soiless mediums makes it no longer soil and nearer to coco or hydro, you should set the pH and allow run off and you will need to add cal/mag, especially at week 5..

In real soil, the organic stuff, the microbes feed the plant and you let them.. It grows the best pot because you dont force feed the plant or kill off the beneficial fungi/bacteria. Which means no nute issues you just have to provide correct vpd and light.

MJPassion · Aug 29, 2018

Creeperpark said:
What kind of water are you using? If using rain, distilled, or RO water, always add Cal Mag to it. I seen 2 kinds of cal mag on the market. One with N and One with out. N in Veg and without N for flowering. Looks like a Calcium Def. to me.

So if you believe it's a Ca deficiency then why add Mg?

Those two are antagonistic to one another and if their ratios are off, the ratio won't be corrected by adding both.

If you believe there is a Ca deficiency why not add a little Gypsum to your soil mix.

If short on Mg try an Epsom + Fulvic Acid foliar spray.
Results will show within a couple hours because foliar application are taken up by plants up to 20x more efficiently according to an Aussie Agricultural site I've read in the past. (sorry, no link)

MJPassion · Aug 29, 2018

Crooked8 said:
This is “tobacco mosaic virus” it is very common with Ogs. In my experience its just a mutation that occurs that can cause dudded branches.....or none at all. I have a beloved Og that presents this regularly and Ive had tons of others that did this too. All of them with relatively different amounts of dudding. The current Og i have has only shown me one or two dudded branches in years.

By my understanding:
If you are experiencing dudding, you have Broad mites or Hemp Russet mites.
Dudding does not exist.

TMV has not been confirmed in cannabis that I am aware of.
If you think this is the case, I've been informed that adding Ca to your res/soil will fix the issue. That leads me to believe that this is in fact a Ca issue and not a TMV issue.

MJPassion · Aug 29, 2018

Lost in a SOG said:
As far as I'm aware tobacco mosaic has only ever been suspected and never proven or anything through a lab to be legitimately in any lines. If any one has any proof that the variegation/chlorosis seen on some cannabis lines is actually TMV I'd love to see it. I thought it had basically been debunked as genetic issues from poor cloning and a nute def related to calcium..

In a decent soil mix there should be enough calcium but it isn't very available in low pH obviously and some mediums hold on to extra calcium and easily lock it up. Since its immobile ideal conditions for fast transpiration are more ideal during very fast growth, ideal VPD.

The ideal cation exchange in soil should be considerable in calcium and with bottled nutes if you drive them really hard you are likely to see calcium being a limiting factor..

Really feeding bottled nutes into soil or soiless mediums makes it no longer soil and nearer to coco or hydro, you should set the pH and allow run off and you will need to add cal/mag, especially at week 5..

In real soil, the organic stuff, the microbes feed the plant and you let them.. It grows the best pot because you dont force feed the plant or kill off the beneficial fungi/bacteria. Which means no nute issues you just have to provide correct vpd and light.

From what I understand,
It's not the salts that kill the microherd. It is the inability to keep up with moisture requirements.

DenverJim · Aug 29, 2018

add sentencehumidity makes little difference... my humidity inside is usually 20-30% outside the humidity can be 5% this just makes more trics. plants need wet dirt and dry air. Air temps to high though. Put them outside.

romuros · Aug 31, 2018

Thank all for your reply.
I had calibrated my meters and checked my water.
Ph of my tap water is 6,7 an 270ppm.
After adding 25ml of GH flora micro and 50ml GH flora bloom to 10l Ph was 6,4 and 1120ppm.
Also I added 5ml of cal mag and get Ph 6,4 and 1250 ppm.
They are in 11L pots and just finished 4th Week of flowering. All AK47.
Temps/hum was 34C/55 lights on and 26c/65 lights off.
I checked again for mites and other pests but didn’t find any.
I did remember that one clone I brought in from clone shop had one damage leave with this yellow pattern but they were 40cm tall when I bought them so I didn’t pay the attention.
On plants there is no big difference since 4 days ago.
I will take some pics tomorrow.
Thanks again for your help and any idea is most welcome

Lost in a SOG · Aug 31, 2018

Check out this vpd chart, you're running an extremely high vpd, probably 3x higher than it should be.. 55% humidity is miles away from what it should be at 36C.. Most charts dont even go high because after 30C the plants will essentially go dormant to protect themselves.. Sometimes closing their stomata altogether which means immobile deficiencies will start to show as well as chlorosis as the N cant get used due to other deficiencies.
Your plants will definitely be stressed by that.. The golden band is super ideal and you can wobble around it but hold them significantly outside this and you're in trouble.

Now check out these nutrient absorptions at different pHs.. Together with your vpd you are locking out calcium and its an immobile nutrient that takes ages to get up the plant. Its possible the medium has turned too acidic and the salts are just building up as the plant cant absorb them. Just giving you some food for thought here. Dont make any rash decisions but I would want to know what pH plain water came out when flushed through them at tho point just to make sure it wasn't coming out at below 6 or something..

z00t · Aug 31, 2018

BRO 36C DAFAK U KNOW AT 37C PHOTOSYNTHESIS STOPS! U KNOW BRO ?

brickweeder · Aug 31, 2018

z00t said:
B...U KNOW AT 37C PHOTOSYNTHESIS STOPS! U KNOW BRO ?

I find this hard to believe, there would be a shitload of tropical sativas and other plants along the equator that have no photosynthesis then.

Crooked8 · Sep 1, 2018

MJPassion said:
By my understanding:
If you are experiencing dudding, you have Broad mites or Hemp Russet mites.
Dudding does not exist.

TMV has not been confirmed in cannabis that I am aware of.
If you think this is the case, I've been informed that adding Ca to your res/soil will fix the issue. That leads me to believe that this is in fact a Ca issue and not a TMV issue.

No mites here. Been running the same strains for years and this rarely happens to me. But, ill have 10 plants next to each other in a dwc setup and all plants sharing same nutes and are pest free. Why would only the og show this leaf pattern and not a single other strain(maybe 10 other strains). Its also the only one that will have a random dudded branch(its maybe happened 2x in 5 years). If i had a mite issue it would be spreading and the deficient lateral branches would become more and more common among all my strains. I could be wrong but it just sounds unlikely that i have a broad/russet mite issue just pop up once a year on one branch of the same strain that has a variegated leaf. I dunno just doesnt add up to me.

TanzanianMagic · Sep 1, 2018

romuros said:
Hi
Does anybody have any idea what can cause this kind of deformation?
Plants are in soil watering with gh bloom and micro in ratio ½. I water them by hands and they got 1.5 liters on two days.
I have a temps problem since we are in the middle of the summer.
They are 4th week of flowering under 6x600w hps.
I have checked with microscope for any pests but didn’t find any.
They are having same problems since i got clones. Some of plants are perfectly healthy but most of them are having same problems.
Any idea what is this?

If they've grown considerably, it could be the temperatures at the leaf/foliage level.

That would explain the partial chlorosis of the one leaf.

z00t · Sep 6, 2018

brickweeder said:
I find this hard to believe, there would be a shitload of tropical sativas and other plants along the equator that have no photosynthesis then.

CRETIN GO READ SUM B00KZ

MJPassion · Sep 6, 2018

Crooked8 said:
No mites here. Been running the same strains for years and this rarely happens to me. But, ill have 10 plants next to each other in a dwc setup and all plants sharing same nutes and are pest free. Why would only the og show this leaf pattern and not a single other strain(maybe 10 other strains). Its also the only one that will have a random dudded branch(its maybe happened 2x in 5 years). If i had a mite issue it would be spreading and the deficient lateral branches would become more and more common among all my strains. I could be wrong but it just sounds unlikely that i have a broad/russet mite issue just pop up once a year on one branch of the same strain that has a variegated leaf. I dunno just doesnt add up to me.

If you're experiencing a CA shortage, all nutes will be in short supply. Ca is the truck driver that gets all the rest of the nutes where they need to be.

Hope this helps.

Some kind of virus or deficency? Need help!!!!

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