advanced techniques|experimental methods|tests|plant physiology+manipulation|env eng

dedicated thread
advanced techniques, experimental methods, tests...
plant physiology+manipulation, environmental engineering

goal
collect & share various advanced, & experimental techniques from around the world of gardening.

*propose & proceed w/ tests re the viability of fertilizers (organic, chemical, foodstuffs, &/or other materials)
*lighting/photoperiod manipulation
*temperature (root, canopy, environment @ large, day/night (diff) *watering frequency, amount, quality, recycling, etc.
*foilar feeding
*additives
*supplements
*catalysts
*flowering boosters
*vegetative boosters
*mechanical, electrical, hvac, environmental engineering & greenhouse engineering in indoor gardens
*advanced math, conversions & formulas

**et al, etc...

rule
every garden/er is distinct, different & respected.

not a debate thread.
not lifestyle thread.
not social networking thread...

just raw scientific facts...reference materials, white papers, wild experiments, collective tests, plant physiology & manipulation repository.

thread is not for new gardeners seeking basic knowledge... unless new gardeners are experimental & dont seek to run these experiments as standard gardens.

thread is for gardeners that are inclined to engineer, run many different medias/systems @ one time, or have run many different types of gardens, & wont snivel if a test/method described kills a plant or two...

thread is not to instruct, teach, persuade or convince - just to share raw data & go to the furthest reaches of indoor gardening...

thats basically it... until/unless other points arise...

advanced techniques...
experimental methods...
tests...

plant physiology & manipulation...
environmental engineering...

for enthusiasts that truly enjoy their gardens...

what about a high pressure grow chamber? it'd obviously have to be a closed system, so you could pump the co2 in there like crazy too...

NASA hypothesized that if Venus had an ecosystem, a tomato grown there would be the size of a pumpkin

ArcticBlast

should be inclusive to the environemtal engineering portion of the thread...
could have stated controlled environment agriculture, but the environmental umbrella should cover hvac (heating, ventillation air conditioning) & bas (building automated systems) & cleanroom specs...

nasa used to use a biomass production system...

they have used these on the int'l space station & as precursor to space station biological research program plant research unti (pru).

can seal nearly any room to desired specs - if know specs...



laminar air flow... turbulent air flow...

combining both in garden seems to be effective... w/ the laminr going up thru leaves & carrying heat thru vents or into ac grill... turbulent to keep the transpiration rates high & to carry away water given off ny leaves...

http://cleanroomproducts.wordpress.com/category/cleanroom-classifications/

can diy a decent clean room & set pressure to desired levels...
design & build your own cleanroom:
http://www.gsfcc.org/Resource/Paper_ID_45.pdf

enjoy your garden!

Thanks for pointing me to this thread.

I think you need a specific section for that. We have done the same on our forum, but a test or review per topic. First we have the announcement of the test (moderator task on our forum, describing the test and what is to be tested, what or who you are looking for). We give all information about the product and ask for suitable testers to come forward. Then we select the grower and he or she executes the test in a topic. If possible we supply the necessary tools or measuring equipment, the supplier supports the product.

We chose for only testing in one section and only accept tests from suppliers who actually support their product in the test, and do it through a designated moderator who initiates and coordinates the test. So it's not a "free test market" - you need to dose it a bit too. Testing that way is a lot of work and a lot of fun. I have seen some pretty impressive tests on this forum too btw that qualify for being in a section like that. We also have lab sections about genetics (Cannalytics profiles, tissue culture etc) and light and lighting equipment. You only need to learn Dutch as we Dutch speak a lot of it .

I would personally strongly support test sections on other fora, and a lot of knowledge transfer between them. That's one of the reasons I published our first test results for the Ballasts as well. Too interesting to keep for yourself

thx for stopping by.

did what could to bring the concept to icmag... maybe no interest here...

your technical skill & test evaluation experience would be nice to have in a forum @ ic...

the centralized lab & double blind testing protocols are nice.

whazzup said:

You only need to learn Dutch as we Dutch speak a lot of it .

Click to expand...

like learning millimhos, ec & par watts?...
just language. will work on it...

would be nice to have a testen nl onderzoeken @ icmag...
the hps-mh vs. hps thread was informative... what was the c*nn*biniod profile difference(s) on the samples, if any?

enjoy your garden!

This should be a subforum sooo many topics could come up the info would be better organized by thread. There are a zillion subsubforums on icmag why not one more.

*mistress* said:

the hps-mh vs. hps thread was informative... what was the c*nn*biniod profile difference(s) on the samples, if any?

Click to expand...

I haven't received the samples yet, but that will be published of course when the tests are done.

Yes, I think a test section would be nice. We als made a sub-section especially for electrical questions in the Growroom design section, that proved to be very successful. We have been really fighting for growroom safety the last few years.

I do not know if my topic fits into your thread or not, root health, methods, and the outcome - chlorine in tap water is not our enemy, but a good tool to use. LMK if you want more stoner data, and it is OK if it doesn't fit.
H

Wow this sounds like a great thread! I have a question though, is this thread only for people post their personal experiments, or can we also post peer-reviewed plant science articles?

Haps said:

I do not know if my topic fits into your thread or not, root health, methods, and the outcome - chlorine in tap water is not our enemy, but a good tool to use. LMK if you want more stoner data, and it is OK if it doesn't fit.
H

Click to expand...

uglybunny said:

Wow this sounds like a great thread! I have a question though, is this thread only for people post their personal experiments, or can we also post peer-reviewed plant science articles?

Click to expand...

seems like plant physiology...
are these standard practices, &/or advanced techniques?

should fit into scope of thread... need base of standard, raw scientific data relevant to plant physiology, in order to identify &/or break from that standard in tests...

if there is a general standard for root health & methods to achieve & continue this, can then attempt to manipulate these standards to achieve greater response...

general repository of
1) standard &

2) unconventional methods is welcome...

only request that the data be

1) carefully labeled/denoted/captioned as

a) individual gardeners' own standards/methods

b) methods learned from other gardeners

c) standard textbook methods

d) unconventional textbook methods,

e) etc...

to maintain authentic & reproduceable data/experiments, would be nice to have solid refernce point from the original materials/scientists/gardeners...

also, scientific articles, & excerpts from books, threads, other forums, the internet in general, should balso be referenced...

the exceptions may be trade secrets, anonymity, etc... but generally, data should be cited to the originator...

even if have wild vision in middle of night for experiment, welcome to post here...... just refernce it as your wild concept.

would prefer more actual experiments & advanced techniques & tests, but raw data is the base of knowledge - aside from spontaneous enlightment...

there should be equal balance between all of these

*advanced techniques
*experimental methods
*tests
*plant physiology+manipulation
*environmental engineering

until activity eventuates individual sub-forums in ea distinct category; for the eccentric & scientifically inclined member, guest & mod

thx for stopping by & contributing...

enjoy yourgarden!

Since it is hard to find studies done on the plant we want them to be done on I often refer to tomatoes. The following in an abstract from a study done by the Department of Horticulture at Ohio State University-


The effects of earthworm-processed pig manure (vermicompost) on germination, growth, and yields of tomato (Lycopersicon esculentum Mill.) plants were evaluated under glasshouse conditions. Tomatoes were germinated and grown in a standard commercial greenhouse container medium (Metro-Mix 360), substituted with 10%, 20%, 30%, 40%, 50%, 60%, 70%, 80%, 90%, and 100% (by volume) pig manure vermicompost. The control consisted of Metro-Mix 360 alone without vermicompost. Plants were grown for 158 days and were frequently supplied with a complete mineral nutrient solution. The germination rates of tomato seeds increased significantly upon substitution of Metro-Mix 360 with 20%, 30%, and 40% vermicompost. Seedlings grown in 100% pig manure vermicompost were significantly shorter, had fewer leaves, and weighed less than those in Metro-Mix 360 controls. Incorporation of 10% or 50% vermicompost into Metro-Mix 360 increased the dry weights of tomato seedlings significantly compared to those grown in the Metro-Mix 360 controls. The largest marketable yield was in the substitution of Metro-Mix 360 with 20% vermicompost (5.1 kg/plant). The average weight of a tomato fruit in substitution of Metro-Mix 360 with 20% vermicompost was 12.4% greater than that in the Metro-Mix 360 control. Substitution of Metro-Mix 360 with 10%, 20%, and 40% vermicompost reduced the proportions of fruits that were non-marketable, and produced more large size (diameter > 6.4 cm) than small size (diameter < 5.8 cm) tomato fruits. There was no significant difference in overall tomato yields between Metro-Mix 360 and 100% pig manure vermicompost. Some of the growth and yield enhancement resulting from substitution of Metro-Mix 360 with pig manure vermicompost could be attributed to the high mineral N concentration of the pig manure vermicompost. However, other factors might have also been involved since all plants were frequently supplied with all required nutrients. These factors need to be investigated in future studies.
End Abstract

Now with that being said I think some of the purist organic growers can go to local organic pig farms, and most likely get some pig scat for real cheap. Throw it in a worm bin and let us know how it works.

mis, thank you for starting this thread I hope this community continues to contibute and we could get some new and inventive cultivation techniques to build a better bud for tomorrow lol

*lurking*

These are the kinds of threads that separate IC from the rest of those so called "marijuana growing forums.

Glad I could be apart of such a community.

+Rep for the thread.

CARE giver said:

These are the kinds of threads that separate IC from the rest of those so called "......... growing forums.

Glad I could be apart of such a community.

+Rep for the thread.

Click to expand...

thanks.

the thred is for all types of plants.

planty aging...chrono/physio/ontogenic...

planty aging...chrono/physio/ontogenic...

plantys have 3 different ages

1. chronological/actual age...
number of months/years plant has been alive... whether in coco, soil, soilless mix, or no media... age of plant from seed, or cut...
other-wise known as chronological age.

2. physiological age...
stage plant is @ in individual lyfe cycle... some cedars may have 500yr cycles... bristle cone pines are over 3,000 yrs old... some members of mulberry family are annuals... but can be re-vegged some plants germinate & mature to senescence in only several wks...
some mature in 50 days, some in 60, some may take 100+ for fully developed s foxt@!ls... ea species and cultivar has its own physiological age...

3. hormonal age...
ontegenic age... all planty parts are @ different hormonal ages. newest growth @ top of plant & ends of branches is hormonally the oldest... also termed terminal flowers/b*ds... the growth closest to bases of branches & stems are hormonally youngest...
why gardeners take tops 1st, & not popcorn tomatoes closest to main stem 1st...
this is the ontogenic age...


also why cutting taken from juvenile zones (lower, closes to stem) of plant root faster...

................................|...hormonally oldest/~50% cuts root
..........................\\\|///.............................. ..................
.........................\\\\|////..inter-mediate part/60-70% root
.......................\\\\\|//////.............................. ...........
......................\\\\\\|///////.juvenile section/80% cuts root

so... while the new growth @ top of the plant seem youngest, it actually is hormonally oldest part of planty... terminal flower dominanance, auxins, etc, etc...

"Juvenility
All woody seedling plants progress through a series of developmental stages known as phase changes. This process, known as ontogenetic, meristem, or developmental aging, is distinguished from chronological or physiological aging. The first or juvenile phase is often associated with superior adventitious rooting relative to mature, adult phase tissue. It begins when the seed germinates and is characterized by vegetative growth and an inability to respond to flower-inducing stimuli. The length of this period varies by species but can persist for 30 to 40 years in some tree species. The various phases may be associated with distinct morphological, developmental, and physiological characteristics (cit). Juvenile tissue is often distinguishable from adult phase tissue by differences in leaf shape, leaf retention, stem thorniness, and pigmentation. Vegetative propagation of a meristem from a particular phase on the donor plant will reproduce its physiological and morphological features (cit). This may prove valuable in terms of promoting early flowering or perpetuating a distinct morphological trait in the rooted cuttings.
It has been noted that the adventitious rooting ability of many woody species declines with ontogenetic age, when the source is a seedling-derived mother plant. The upper, more distal portions of the stock plant are first to exhibit this reduced rooting potential. Cuttings from the lower, typically juvenile, regions of the plant generally maintain a higher rooting capacity than those taken from the upper portions (cit)."

"Cone of Juvenility
The majority of juvenile growth occurs when a plant is young and still exhibiting juvenile characteristics. As a plant ages, the older and lower parts retain their juvenile traits and the adult phenotype appears on the newest growth. On a tree, the trunk and lower branches that formed when the tree was young will retain their juvenile characteristics. Once the tree is older, the newest branches that form exhibit adult traits."

What happen to this thread? So much valuable information and it just stopped.