2x3meter, 15 plant, 1800watt cheesey scrog

Hey Scroger, no worries, I know its not easy to see the detail and they`re not easy to photograph well being on one level plane, unlike the conventionally grown plant.

I haven`t lost all hope of achieving a reasonable harvest if things fattens up over the next two weeks. There`s planty of bud there if it does, but it`s certainly not going to be breaking any records.

I`d be able to pull 60-65oz from 15 plants grown conventionally in this set-up when dialed in with just the three 600w lights, and although this is not going to do that well, a lot of the cola`s are 6-9 inches and if they bulk up some I`d hope I`d harvest 45-50oz.

This is the 5th or 6th grow I`ve done with the same stock including the 2 growtent grows, and many have been planted in other grows and done consistently well, so its definitely not down to the genes/pheno etc., one friend pulled over 8 oz a plant growing conventionally to about 4 feet tall.

I can only put it down to the damage suffered during the veg period when the def`s/lockout was occurring, what do you reckon.

Although things should be looking better than they are, the strain is known to keep putting weight on till the last week so as I said I remain hopeful that they`ll fill out some more yet.

Defo something weird going on with the thin shoots coming from the tops 10-14 days ago, but I cant attribute this to any issues that I can see.

Fucking strange, but I`m trying to stay positive about this as I see what the remaining 2 weeks does, the same plants did produce 4oz per plant, 2 to a sq meter in the growtent first time and better the last time, though the final weight is not known as its only just getting finished being cut down this week after letting the lower buds in the screen have some more time to ripen and firm up due to training late into flower. The plants in this larger scrog look to be healthier and bigger generally with bigger leaves etc. They look healthy and happy in every way other than the deformed shoots at the top of the tops, and what seems like a lower bud quantity, maybe they`re just not that good a strain for scrogging. I`m going to have other strains on the go next time around, not sure exactly what I`ll go with, but will probably keep some cheese going if only to see if it does ok against other strains.

Out of the Armageddon and cheese cuttings I have for the growtent, the cheese have a much stronger root growth than the armageddon despite being taken and rooted some time after. The Armageddon were struggling a bit to say the least when I got them though, but they`re looking loads better now.

Armageddon on the left, Cheese on the right, they`re getting a bit leggy under the envirolight 200w, but tmro will see them in the tent under a 400w metal Halide, and they`ll start undergoing some training and bondage. This`ll be a bit of a test for the Cheese against the Arma`s, they`re going 4 of each into different tents next to each other, same nutes, same treatment. Going to run these drain to waste, the last grow in the tent was recirculating. I`ll choose cuttings from the strongest of both strains for at least part of my next monster scrog, along with a choice of 3 other strains from friends.





These are pictures from the recent 2 plant scrog with the same strain, none of the buds are 6 inches long due to over training through the stretch, but you can see they`ve got regular shaped heads to the buds with no unusual stretchy bits to the tops.







The plants I`m growing now in the monster sgrog are at least far more resinous than those grown in the tent. Anyhow lets see how they finish off and keep yer fingers crossed eh?

Toke ;-)

Just to take the piss out of my situation here, I`m on page 13!

Along with that I noticed today that the 2 plant scrog pots have an almost universal white salt build up across the top of the coco, and were over trained through stretch resulting in the colas being trapped in the screen out of the light and they look like they`ve done a lot better than this lot, plant for plant, despite mine looking generally a lot healthier and with no salt build up on the coco surface to speak of at all.

Any thoughts on what the problem is here?

I changed my nutes to Canna 5 days before I first mentioned the stretching tips, surely the precipitation that I found in the part B (photos of this a couple of pages back) couldn`t suddenly stunt the bud growth and yet not show any other signs of suffering, ie. leaves are standing upright with no drooping, colour good with only a hand full of big fan leaves losing their green, no nute burn whatsoever in the leaf tips, they`re drinking well and look as healthy as you could hope for, WTF gives, I dont get it at all and to be honest its stressing me out now.

Toke

Hi mate, I understand your frustration mate, just get over one issue to be pulled back by another!

Are the plants still putting on weight? Or have they stopped gaining weight? Have you quadruple checked for light leaks any red lights on extensions, equipment etc? If they have stopped putting on weight and those little tips are still stretching then they sound like they have switched back to veg.... I can't see the precipitation being the cause, but stand to be corrected.

What does the B contain again in terms of nutes? I mean that not a nute def anyway is it? As you say plants are looking good eating well etc, no def's visible on leaves... sounds like a light leak to me man...

BTW those ones ion the tent are looking very nice bro, nice n chunky

Yeah I`m sure light aint an issue mate. The new sprouts grew only to an inch or two and then stopped, since then there has been little difference all round, except the pistils browning and the calyxes beginning to split as it ripens.

There has been some swelling of the small buds but no growth.

The grow tent was ok`ish, but really the colas shoud have been 8-14 inches above the screen, the max in the grow tent was about 6 and only one or two of them at that. The buds were formed ok tho, unlike these ones with the growth sprout etc.

Not sure exactly what is in the Part B canna coco, they now only give the totals for A+B combined on their cartons, I wouldn`t have thought it could have any bearing on the flower potential if the rest of the growth looks healthy and green.

I had a couple of mates round for a look today, they`re in disbelief, as they saw them a couple of weeks back when all was looking fine, and they cant understand it, they both reckon me or the house is jinxed!!

Yeah its very depressing.

Toke

Shit, stealth at risk now!!

Shit, stealth at risk now!!

Well things just getting worse around here, I`ve just found my carbon filter (3 months old) is not working effectively at all. It vents from my spare room to the attic, and I noticed smells in my bathroom coming from an airbrick in the uppermost part of the exterior wall. The neg pressure caused by the fan brings air in from the airbrick and almost directly from the attic. I went up in the attic and found the exhaust reeked of weed really badly. I first suspected a tear in the acoustic ducting, but all seems good and taped up, including the join on the fan itself. Still reeks! I`ve been in touch with the supplier and they`re sending me another filter which should arrive on Monday.

I`m going to have to reroute the exhaust of my 8 inch into the upstairs of my house and keep the windows shut, leaving a 5 inch to exhaust to the attic, and stay at a mate`s nearby for the weekend.

I`m shitting it really, just hope the neighbours haven`t been in their lofts lately, new neighbours one side too

I`ve been wondering, since one or two people have said they look over fed/too much N, cos of the richness of the green colour and the leaves pointing upwards to the light. I`ve read up and apparently nitrogen burn can show in 2 or 3 different ways including tip burn and too dark a green.

So my Calmax has 2% nitrogen along with what I assume is the required amount of nitrogen in the CocoA+B I`ve been using. I`ve ran the ec mainly between ec1.4-1.6 with a peak of 1.7-1.8 for a week when PK13/14 was at full dose.

Could too much nitrogen have such a devastating affect on bud production without having other obvious signs of ill health in the plant??

Toke, a nervous toke

^^ Sorry to hear about the new woes toke, if I was you though I would have either bought a new filter immediately or took that one back to were it was purchased and had them swap it over and receive the new one direct from suppliers on Mon. I'm really para like that though... I don't wanna come across as though I am lecturing you or anything, but you need to get that sorted ASAP!!!





If the plants are still putting on weight then I would wait out the

Yeah, I`ve got it contained to the upstairs of my house now, letting the heat and humidity run further than the room itself hoping it`ll spread it enough to keep the heat and RH down, also got a good dehuey on the go too.

I`ve just got the 5 inch fan extracting to the attic, the 8 inch is now exhausting into the hall. The windows are all shut of course.

Para mate, fuck me tell me about it! I haven`t got the cash for a spare one, I mean really haven`t, and it was ordered it mail order to a mate`s address. They`re sending one out and will arrive on Monday and I`m going to have to wait till then. I`ll keep a check on temps etc and reduce the amount of lights as necessary.

I feel like I`ve been fighting a jinx this last year and it seems to be stepping up a gear every time I think I`m getting out of the hole.

I just hope the neighbours haven`t noticed anything, I doubt they`ll have noticed unless they`ve been in the attics, which I dont think they use, so I`m keeping my fingers crossed.

I`m a bit concerned about getting the same manufacturer`s filter again to be honest and obviously I`ll have to check it thoroughly before trusting it completely.

How best to test the filter though, the house is going to stink of weed so my nose will become accustomed to it. I`m wondering if it`d be cool to get a friend to squirt some powerful smelling air freshener onto the filter whilst I`m up in the attic at the end of the exhaust and see if I can smell it coming through. It should stop it yeah??

Still wondering about the nitrogen being able to thwart the growth of buds to this degree. Other than doing all I can to be in control of my stealth, I`ve got to get on with the job in hand.

I went on the canna-care forum to ask about the precipitation in the Part B nutes and whether it could affect this grow in this way. But I got an answer about the green leaves and the lack of leaf drop, compared to a plant usually using up its nitrogen and turning leaves yellow and dropping them. My leaves that I tucked right beneath the canopy weeks ago are still looking in the majority green and healthy on day 53 of 63. I know these plants quite well and they do finish in 9 weeks.

Toke

Oh dear, the stress of the last couple of days is obviously affecting me adversely, I left a 60w house bulb during lights out last night, I seem to be hindering my plants rather than helping them at the moment.

Ok I seem to have the temps and RH at ok`ish levels, 86f at 35%, and all odours are confined to upstairs with no smell leaks to the outside.

I`m going to try replacing the acoustic ducting with normal ducting just to make sure its not pulling through any leaks. Its horrible stuff to work with having the same f/glass shit that is used for loft insulation, and its directly above the plants. Apart from being a real pain in the arse to get to, I`m going to have to cover the crop with a dust sheet to avoid any fibres making it to the bud, I`ll be using a hoover too. I really hate the fibre stuff, you have to throw clothes away after using the stuff or you never stop itching.

I fed at ec1.2 made up of Calmax 0.3, and A+B to ec1.2, and gave 3.5-4ltrs each pot yesterday which gave loads of run off to flush the higher strength out. I`ll maintain feeds with ec1.2 for the rest of this week before plain water flushing them.

I`m still thinking about the nitrogen issue. . . . No thoughts on this anyone???

Can I have got it so wrong with the N levels to cause this amount of a problem with the flower production. The plants are not turning leaves yellow yet, as I said even the ones tucked underneath the canopy weeks ago are still green and relatively healthy looking, but can you keep a plant living longer ant lusher with extra nitrogen.

Having said that, although they didn`t look so lush and healthy, the majority of leaves on the 2 plant scrog stayed green for a good couple of weeks past there 63 day due date as the bottoms had extra time to firm up, and they`re still being finished off now.

I`m really confused by this stunting, unless I can find out whats behind it I cant be that confident in my next grow, regardless of what strain I go with. Maybe its time I took my plants to the infirmary forum.

Cheers Toke

Hiya Toke, I read your thread and if this has already been covered I apologize. Have you ever stuck a thermometer into your pots? If the temp in your pots is under 65f you will start to see problems. I recently had some moms in coco get a little cold and they displayed symptoms similar to yours. You had mentioned that it was very cold where you are and I didn't notice any mention of temps inside the pot (or maybe I just missed it). It seems like everything else has been throughly covered. Best of luck. I hope they come through for you.

CovertCrops said:

Hiya Toke, I read your thread and if this has already been covered I apologize. Have you ever stuck a thermometer into your pots? If the temp in your pots is under 65f you will start to see problems. I recently had some moms in coco get a little cold and they displayed symptoms similar to yours. You had mentioned that it was very cold where you are and I didn't notice any mention of temps inside the pot (or maybe I just missed it). It seems like everything else has been throughly covered. Best of luck. I hope they come through for you.

Click to expand...

Yeah interesting mate, thanks for dropping in. Mine is certainly below 65F, but I`d have thought they could stand it a little lower than that, maybe strain varient tho. A friend has just successfully grown this stock of the strain with night temps down to the low 40`s, but certainly I`ll look into my pot temps. I feed with a nutes temp of 68/69f , not sure what the pot temps are tho.

Looking at my plants I can see they`re quite lush, but they`re not as rich as they appear to be in the photos. I can see now that some of the bigger fan leaves are just starting to lose their colour a little.

Is it possible, I`m probably clutching at straws here tho, that after the stress they suffered throughout their veg period that it could make them slower to flower? Its just that if these had 3 weeks to go I`d be thinking they looked fine, as it is with 10 days to go even though they`re still swelling a bit, they certainly wont do what I`d like them to do.

The pistils have mostly turned to quite a vibrant orange colour and resin production is excellent, now if they could just pack on 75% in the last 10 days and my stealth leak doesn`t lead to any problems I`d be one happy chappy.

Toke

I really hope this replacement filter arrives and works tmro, its not good at the moment, and its one serious fecking let down. I`m managing to contain the smells to the upstairs of the house but the humidity is running at around 60-65% inside the canopy which is just too high.

Although I`m managing to keep the smells confined, I`ve got condensation forming on the upstairs windows which is always a bit of a give away. I hope my neighbours aren`t the type to complain if they do notice the odd smell, but I obviously invest in the equipment to keep both my environment good and keep my stealth up to scratch. I`ve never heard of a filter failing before except from being exhausted (excuse the pun). I dont really have trust in the same type filter replacement, but I cant afford go out and get one locally.

To be honest my plants lack of performance is the least of my worries at the moment, as the mold risk is high as they`re on day 55/63, along with the fact that my stealth may have been compromised, so I`m feeling very edgy and stressed out by it. I`m just hoping this very unsettled spell relents soon without any real trouble and I can continue my way in peace.

Its a bad vibe around here at the moment, I`m hoping you`re all bearing with me. Its useful to get my thoughts down though, and helps me keep perspective. I think the level of risk is fairly small that the neighbours have smelt anything, they dont use there loft space for anything, I can just see through the wall enough to see that, so hopefully they haven`t been up there lately. It`d be bad luck if it`s given it away, but I have exposed myself to the risk. I dont think the smell will have fed into their house, as I think the only reason it came into mine is that with the negative pressure caused in the house by the 930m3 per hour extractor ensures that air is always sucked in through the airbrick in the bathroom and its placed high up the wall near the eves, which is where the fan exhausts to, hence sucking faint but distinct odours into my bathroom. My neighbours airbrick should be exhausting outwards if anything I think due to heat rising in a "normal" household, but its a bit of an all mod cons house so they probably have an expelair extractor for their bathroom as opposed to the older fashioned airbrick. So hopefully my stealth hasn`t been that compromised, but I`m sure any stealth consious grower will understand the mild panic attacks that come over me from time to time, and I`m bricking it at the mo.

The filter should work tmro, but I`ll be checking it sooooooo fucking thoroughly. If it doesn`t do the job I dont know what I`d do, I`d have to see if I can beg some dosh off someone and buy one locally.

I cant hang the filter where I`d like to, or remove the one that`s in there now as its right in the middle of my room above the scrog screen I`ll have to figure this out by tmro.

The plants are being fed as usual, I`m just hoping they`ll survive the sweats they`re having for these few days with no mold issues, that`d be all I need, but it is a crucial time as they`re ripening and I know others have had mold issues with this strain. Its going to be difficult in such a large and dense canopy, but I`m going to have to be really vigilant in checking for any mold in the coming week or so. Just need to sort the job in hand first and settle down a bit.

I`ve brought the feed strength down to ec1.0 and planning to go into flush towards the end of this week.

Stay positive Toker

Sorry to hear about your dilema, if it makes you feel any better, my plants look like shit too (atm) lol.

My can filter didnt seem to do much either, so i went with the ozone generator, and it works amazing. I know you already got the replacement filter so this probably doesnt help much but its the only thing that works for me now.

Best of luck to you. Stay Safe. hope evything works out for you.

i feel your pain tokesome right at this very moment i type ...there are workies in my loft sorting a hole i made i was being nosey ... stupid thing to do realy but these guys can see right in my loft and ive got ducting every where so am shiting it a bit.........
my chronics realy stink at the mo ...oh a question? TS what reverse osmosis machine are you using as i need to buy one soon ...(deficencies) tlk sn

Hello mate, hope you have everything sorted... filter and smell wise. Security first, everything else is replaceable!

Think you will be happy to get the gilrs down won't ya mate... On to the next one as Jay Z says

Hey Cheeseman, I reckon the amount of air I have to pull through my room to cope with heat and humidity I reckon the ozone geney`s benefit would go straight out the exhaust.

My replacement can doesn`t work though, it reduces the odour for sure, but I can still smell it coming out of the exhaust end. I cant smell anything outside the house though. I cant fucking believe it, these filters must be crap, certainly not as they`re rated, 1060m3 per minute, my fan is 940m3 per min. I`m going to get the best quality carbon can I can find locally.

Any recommendations for filters, I hear good things about the PHAT (Rhino) carbon cans.

I getting a refund for the other one, maybe I could hook up 6 inch fans to these two filters I`ve got hung in the air now, they`d probably cope with the air volume being pulled through by a 6 inch. more fans, turned down would I imagine dramatically reduce the noise output from the rushing air.

At least its freezing out at the mo, literally, so not much chance of neighbours going into the empty attic space for now. I should be able to get another one up tmro or the day after.

Rocket, cover your ducting up dude, that`s what I do, with loft insulation, never know when the roofers are coming eh? Luckily most people mind their own biz unless it affects them, we just fear the narrow or nasty minded eh?

I fucking hate having my stealth breached. I`m now worried a bit about the fan noise, I replaced the acoustic ducting with some normal. The normal is much noisier. The acoustic ducting is a bitch to work with, and I dont trust what I cant see. What I mean is, there are 3 layers of plastic, the inner one is perforated to act as a baffle, the second one is just a thin plastc membrane, then a layer of loft insulation type fibre, then a thin mylar like membrane. The inner membrane must leak I assume as the ducting constricts on the pulled air side and puffs out a bit on the pushed air side. I found it difficult to use the metal screw clamp (jubilee clip) without causing a tear in the outer membrane which then needs tape. I`m going to clamp my filter directly to the fan, therefore only needing ducting once on the exhaust side of the fan, and reinstall the acoustic ducting for noise reduction.

Anyone know of a good tape for grow room use. I find the tin foil tape great until you need to tape over itself, it just doesnt do it which is crap.

The RO filters are all the same mate, any 3 filter system will do it. , mine is a 125GPD membrane and takes under 5 hours to produce 50ltrs, cost is between 75-100 quid.

Hey Shhh, I`m hoping these girls will go an extra week or two to be honest, but suspect they`ll ripen up and mold will be an issue as they`re quite leafy in the colas, unless for some reason these are acting out of character and take longer than the 9 weeks they usually take to finish. Yeah security, tell me about it, its at the forefront of my mind I can tell you that for sure. Yeah I`ll be glad when this one is all done, that`s for sure too. ;-)

Toke ;-)

so a 3 stage r/o is good..... i seen on one website that their filters dont remove all calcium wots that about ?

Not good news ts went into the loft to find the've made a huge hole which is overly big and the fu*ks have been on the wander in my loft ..... it gets worse i heard the loud oafs talking
and they mentiond weed this has spooked me big time and they have to come back to finnish it so i need to batten down the hatches ive done my best to stop odour and hide ducting but the cat might be out the bag .. a serious breach in stealth ....... this might give me nightmares tonight ...

rocket high said:

so a 3 stage r/o is good..... i seen on one website that their filters dont remove all calcium wots that about ?

Not good news ts went into the loft to find the've made a huge hole which is overly big and the fu*ks have been on the wander in my loft ..... it gets worse i heard the loud oafs talking
and they mentiond weed this has spooked me big time and they have to come back to finnish it so i need to batten down the hatches ive done my best to stop odour and hide ducting but the cat might be out the bag .. a serious breach in stealth ....... this might give me nightmares tonight ...

Click to expand...

SHit, is it definitely blown then? Are you there when they are then. I`d offer them a cuppa and see how they are and dont play the fool, but dont be smug obviously. Make out you have some serious illness (got a walking stick?) and if they mention it you could say you need it for medicine and cant cope with dealing with the street urchins.

Wow, dunno tho mate, best of luck!

I have a mate who fits elec meters and he says he often comes across grows and people with scales and powders etc on their tables, many of his workmates do too. There`s only one on his team that frowns on it badly. He says he only finds it sickening when he really fancies a line.

I`ve got to get myself a filter tmro. Problem is, looking at the 8inch filters, many of them are only rated to 700 odd m3pm, and my fan is 940m3pm. The only 8 inch rated high enough that I can find is the cf1030, but that`s what I`ve had, twice and they dont perform well enough at all. I`m thinking maybe a 10 inch the original Can filter (1000m3pm), or a Rhino (was PHAT), actually they do a 8 inch rated at 1125m3pm. I`d use a 10 inch with a step down ring from 10 to 8 inch to link directly the filter to the fan using a couple of fastclamps, then use acoustic ducting exhaust. Ideally I could do with two ducting spigot plates to fit the acoustic ducting to both sides of the hole in the ceiling.

I`ll see what is available tmro locally, I really need to sort this out to be relaxed with my gardening, and I guess it`ll be a few weeks till I`ll feel safe again.

I`m not even gonna keep any clones here, I`ve got somewhere else I can raise em, so I have nothing else in the house I can get done for apart from the 14 flowering plants, just in case the man does come calling

Toke

Good shout getting things in order just in case toke, hope for the best & expect the worse!

rocket high that doesn't sound good at all mate. As toke says you need to have a word somehow to see what kind of lot your dealing with, how many seen it etc. I'd be about as doing chores outside the house and see what the reaction was like when they see you. Body language will tell you 75% of what you need to know mate

thanks for the up ts and shhh.
Ive been growing for years and getting away with it and now its blown ..... But the good news is no workers today .....the snows a foot deep and these guys won't want to get their feet wet lol

i'll need to have a chat with the workies see what the crack is.
i love my hobby and i don't want these bastards stopping me doing ma thing.. as you'll know yourselves ....i hope it blows over.


i run 10 inch 1150.. m3/h (see avatar) sucks like a tornado but is noisy and am using insulated ducting
fed the air into the attic to disperse .... but like you ts i need a decent carbon filter
and its a mine field ....... most are made with crap carbon (charcoal) ... but in the ad's they're saying its the best on the market.. cheeky bastards

see when you find a decent one let me know

I`m looking at a 10inch 1000m3 Original Can filter or the Rhino (PHAT) 8inch 1125m3, both have good reputations,

Gd luck Rocket, maybe get everything out except yer plants just in case. Dunno about the filter that doesn`t get rid of all the Calcium, maybe traces left, but my meter reads ec0.0.

Toke