Rotovap vs SprayVap

I need to evaporate large quantities of ethanol whilst under vacuum and keeping the sample temp to around 40c max.

So I was looking around and found SprayVap made by CES

The sprayvap does 24 liters of EtOH per hour compared to a 20 liter rotovap at 6-8 liters per hour. And AI rotovaps have worked fine for me and they are 20k for the kit.

I am leaning towards the 3-4 Rotovaps because if I goes down you are still running. But going with the sprayvap, if it goes down then your whole op is down.

Excuse me, you didn't mention jacketed reactors, why are they offered to the community if not for pulling off solvent?

https://www.bestvaluevacs.com/5l-jacketed-reactor.html

I was also looking into these guys as an option for alcohol extract. Anyone actually using the CES system ?

SkyHighLer said:

Excuse me, you didn't mention jacketed reactors, why are they offered to the community if not for pulling off solvent?

https://www.bestvaluevacs.com/5l-jacketed-reactor.html

Click to expand...

I always figured those were used for crystallization.

Breakover said:

I always figured those were used for crystallization.

Click to expand...

Jacketed reactors are used when you need vigorous stirring, temperature control, in process reagent addition, and continuous operation.

The attached DMT and DET procedures beg a jacketed reactor. From "The Psychedelic Guide to the Preparation of the Eucharist in a few of it's many guises" as edited by Robert E. Brown & Associates of the Neo American Church League for Spiritual Development & The Ultimate Authority of the Clear Light

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=333078&highlight=preparation+eucharist

Off topic, the question concerned low temp vacuum distillation, but....

https://solvent-recycler.com

https://www.beccainc.com/solvent-distillation-recycling-equipment/
https://ecopureenvironmental.com/index.html

There are many other first world based companies manufacturing these solvent recovery devices, and then there's China and India.

The collection bags are usually nylon, sometimes PTFE.

https://www.beccainc.com/products/p...ecovery-bags-and-solvent-distillation-liners/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8jgVCHO-Gw

Oral/topical meds, feed for fractional distillation, etc.


"Solvents

The Sidewinder Model M-2 has been tested and certified by Underwriters Laboratories, Inc for use in a normal, non-hazardous location. Here are some of the solvents for recycling but you may know them under a different name. Please call us and we can help you determine if the Sidewinder is the right distiller reclaimer for your solvents. Be prepared to email us your MSD sheet.

acetone
butanol
diacetone alcohol
diethyl ketone
ethanol
ethyl acetate
isoamyl alcohol
isobutyl acetate
isopropyl acetate
isopropyl alcohol
lacquer thinner
methanol
methyl cellosolve
methyl ethyl ketone
methyl isobutyl ketone
methyl n-amyl ketone
2-methyl-2-propanol
n-butyl acetate
n-propyl acetate
naphtha (light aliphatic)
naphtha (petroleum spirits)
paint thinner
propanol
stoddard"


I'm currently investigating the best of those, and several more here,

(I listed them as to relative polarity, and included boiling points for comparison)

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=7933632&postcount=162

If you read through the entire thread, the details of how anyone can acquire the listed solvents is described in detail.



Most of these solvent recyclers have a vacuum distillation option available so they can be run at reduced pressure to lower the boil off temperature. To protect from corrosion damage due to processing solvents contaminated with acids, etc. they often offer a stainless steel option in lieu of copper coils. The larger units have a 'scrapper' (stirring paddle,) and are set up for continuous processing. The manufacturers selling these units should also be able to assist in setting up an approvable facility.


I found a comparison to wiped film,

"How do your units compare to a wiped film (thin film) evaporator?

Wiped film (thin film for WFE) evaporators are designed to run in an application where there is continuous imput from a manufacturing process and the composition of the input does not change significantly. PRI’s units are designed to handle variable waste streams with little or no input from the operator. Because PRI’s systems do not use high speed rotating parts and do not require tight tolerances , little maintenance is required compared to a wiped form unit."

https://www.progressive-recovery.com/service/faqs/

Much safer, easier to operate, unattended 24 hour a day operation, less expensive both initially and in the long run, high volume units available, nearly the same speed as rotovaps and wiped film.

I've never seen these devices mentioned previously, I pm'd Gray Wolf for feedback, what's up???

SprayVap Vs. RotoVap

SprayVap Vs. RotoVap

ButterCup said:

I need to evaporate large quantities of ethanol whilst under vacuum and keeping the sample temp to around 40c max.

So I was looking around and found SprayVap made by CES

The sprayvap does 24 liters of EtOH per hour compared to a 20 liter rotovap at 6-8 liters per hour. And AI rotovaps have worked fine for me and they are 20k for the kit.

I am leaning towards the 3-4 Rotovaps because if I goes down you are still running. But going with the sprayvap, if it goes down then your whole op is down.

Click to expand...

Every system has its pros and cons. The RotoVap is a batch process that has been around for over 50 years and does small batch (no production) processing quite well.

The SprayVap is a continuous, closed loop system that is easy to use, provides high throughput, and consistency in the quality of the oil. These means that the SprayVap can evaporate alcohol out of the tincture fast and efficiently (SV20 upto 24 LPH) while protecting and preserving the essentials, including terpenes. The SprayVap is designed to operate in an environment were production of consistent, high quality oil is key.

Additionally, the alcohol is re-purified every time (never have to throw away alcohol), little to no maintenance, no bumping, and runs by the push of a button.

Demonstrations every Tuesday and Thursday, on-site, at Colorado Extraction Systems in Wheat Ridge, CO

Book online at www.coloradoextractionsystems.com

Here's a demo of the full system.


https://youtu.be/4ZVYUeBOmtM
https://youtu.be/jPdi_fYEJIs

A 50L rotovap will do 20 liters per hour. Two of those is still less than the sprayvap.

The sprayvap seems to have the potential to contaminate the distilled output as well. Atomized input could get mixed with the output too easily.

RB

Rickys bong said:

A 50L rotovap will do 20 liters per hour. Two of those is still less than the sprayvap.

The sprayvap seems to have the potential to contaminate the distilled output as well. Atomized input could get mixed with the output too easily.

RB

Click to expand...

While it may be possible for 2 50L rotovaps (typically max etoh evap rate of 15 LPH) to keep up with the evaporation rate of a small sprayvap, running a rotovap is a pain in the butt (beginning to end, including clean up). The SprayVap eliminates those issues and allows you to continually run. In fact, SprayVaps have evaporation rates as high as 68 LPH for production models and higher for custom. Also, i think two rotos are more than the cost of a sprayvap, even alibaba rotos.

One thing i have noticed is that rotovaps tend to load up the alcohol distillate with water and terpenes, which reduces its effectiveness and contaminates the alcohol, requiring you to dispose of it after 3 or 4 runs. The SprayVap can take that waste product and re-purify it by separating the water and terpenes from the alcohol, thus returning its effectiveness (i.e. proof).

I use my 20 liter roto like a spray vape. I have a 50" stainless coil that preheats my incoming ethanol/oil and I throttle the valve so it sprays into the roto. When dialed in you can do 20L an hour, However, I use this for predistillate so I can run high temps. It probably wouldn't work as well at lower temperatures if you are concerned with terpene preservation.

You could also stream N2 gas through the boiling flask using a thermometer/tubing adapter and polypropelene or PFA tubing. Maybe use a hot water heat exchanger to introduce warm nitrogen and aid in evaporation speed.

vangumby said:

One thing i have noticed is that rotovaps tend to load up the alcohol distillate with water and terpenes, which reduces its effectiveness and contaminates the alcohol, requiring you to dispose of it after 3 or 4 runs.

Click to expand...

Running a rotovap is easy. Vacuum loads and unloads the flask.

I've run thousands of liters through a 50L. Never experienced terpenes or increasing water content. Always ran it under vacuum though.

RB

SkyHighLer said:

Off topic, the question concerned low temp vacuum distillation, but....

https://solvent-recycler.com

https://www.beccainc.com/solvent-distillation-recycling-equipment/
https://ecopureenvironmental.com/index.html

There are many other first world based companies manufacturing these solvent recovery devices, and then there's China and India.

The collection bags are usually nylon, sometimes PTFE.

https://www.beccainc.com/products/p...ecovery-bags-and-solvent-distillation-liners/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8jgVCHO-Gw

Oral/topical meds, feed for fractional distillation, etc.


"Solvents

The Sidewinder Model M-2 has been tested and certified by Underwriters Laboratories, Inc for use in a normal, non-hazardous location. Here are some of the solvents for recycling but you may know them under a different name. Please call us and we can help you determine if the Sidewinder is the right distiller reclaimer for your solvents. Be prepared to email us your MSD sheet.

acetone
butanol
diacetone alcohol
diethyl ketone
ethanol
ethyl acetate
isoamyl alcohol
isobutyl acetate
isopropyl acetate
isopropyl alcohol
lacquer thinner
methanol
methyl cellosolve
methyl ethyl ketone
methyl isobutyl ketone
methyl n-amyl ketone
2-methyl-2-propanol
n-butyl acetate
n-propyl acetate
naphtha (light aliphatic)
naphtha (petroleum spirits)
paint thinner
propanol
stoddard"


I'm currently investigating the best of those, and several more here,

(I listed them as to relative polarity, and included boiling points for comparison)

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=7933632&postcount=162

If you read through the entire thread, the details of how anyone can acquire the listed solvents is described in detail.



Most of these solvent recyclers have a vacuum distillation option available so they can be run at reduced pressure to lower the boil off temperature. To protect from corrosion damage due to processing solvents contaminated with acids, etc. they often offer a stainless steel option in lieu of copper coils. The larger units have a 'scrapper' (stirring paddle,) and are set up for continuous processing. The manufacturers selling these units should also be able to assist in setting up an approvable facility.


I found a comparison to wiped film,

"How do your units compare to a wiped film (thin film) evaporator?

Wiped film (thin film for WFE) evaporators are designed to run in an application where there is continuous imput from a manufacturing process and the composition of the input does not change significantly. PRI’s units are designed to handle variable waste streams with little or no input from the operator. Because PRI’s systems do not use high speed rotating parts and do not require tight tolerances , little maintenance is required compared to a wiped form unit."

https://www.progressive-recovery.com/service/faqs/

Much safer, easier to operate, unattended 24 hour a day operation, less expensive both initially and in the long run, high volume units available, nearly the same speed as rotovaps and wiped film.

I've never seen these devices mentioned previously, I pm'd Gray Wolf for feedback, what's up???

Click to expand...

Bump, I received not one word of feedback on my suggestion.

SkyHighLer said:

Excuse me, you didn't mention jacketed reactors, why are they offered to the community if not for pulling off solvent?

https://www.bestvaluevacs.com/5l-jacketed-reactor.html

Click to expand...

Breakover said:

I always figured those were used for crystallization.

Click to expand...

SkyHighLer said:

Jacketed reactors are used when you need vigorous stirring, temperature control, in process reagent addition, and continuous operation.

The attached DMT and DET procedures beg a jacketed reactor. From "The Psychedelic Guide to the Preparation of the Eucharist in a few of it's many guises" as edited by Robert E. Brown & Associates of the Neo American Church League for Spiritual Development & The Ultimate Authority of the Clear Light

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=333078&highlight=preparation+eucharist

Click to expand...

Pic of a jacketed reactor being used for fractional distillation, I'd postulated months ago that might be why they're being stocked by BVV and others. High temperature heat tape, https://www.omega.com/subsection/tape-rope-heaters.html

More in the video at the link,

https://www.vcstar.com/story/news/crime/2017/06/24/sheriff-seizes-hash-oil-lab-somis/426329001/


Raid ends reign of what's being called county's biggest drug lab ever

Jeremy Childs and Megan Diskin
Published 2:32 p.m. PT June 24, 2017 | Updated 1:35 a.m. PT June 25, 2017

Three men were arrested after authorities raided what the Ventura County undersheriff called the largest drug lab in county history.

About 209 pounds of marijuana and 26 pounds of concentrated cannabis were seized from a Somis home that had been converted into a butane honey oil lab, according to the Ventura County Sheriff's Office.

"A butane honey oil lab is a process used to extract high levels of THC from marijuana and convert it into concentrated cannabis using highly combustible solvents such as butane, propane and ethanol in a pressurized system," sheriff's officials said Saturday in a news release.

Those solvents and evidence of sales of concentrated cannabis, including money believed to be drug sale proceeds, were also taken from the home. The extraction process is dangerous because the lab area is susceptible to explosions if the fumes are ignited, authorities said.

In a tweet, Ventura County Undersheriff Gary Pentis called the drug lab operating in the 5500 block of Heatherton Drive the "largest and most professionally organized" in the county's history.

Keyan Shokraei, 38, of Somis, Kooshawn Shokraei, 30, of Somis, and Bryan Sommers, 23, of Camarillo, were arrested in connection with the drug lab, authorities said.

Initially, detectives had been at the home to serve a felony warrant on Kooshawn Shokraei but when officials went inside, they saw the lab, authorities said.

Detectives said they saw the lab was active and in various stages of processing. Sommers and Keyan Shokraei were seen working in the lab and were detained while detectives obtained a search warrant to further investigate, authorities said.

The investigation and process of rendering the home safe started at 4:30 p.m. Friday and went into Saturday morning, due to "the amount of chemicals and equipment found in the home and the need to dispose of contaminated chemicals, materials and equipment," authorities stated.

All three suspects were booked into Ventura County jail but were released after posting bail, officials said.

The Ventura County Fire Department and Environmental Health Agency were on the scene as a precaution.

The Ventura County Sheriff's Office, Oxnard Police Department, Ventura County District Attorney's Office, Drug Enforcement Administration and Los Angeles Interagency Metropolitan Police Apprehension Crime Task Force participated in the investigation. The task force is made up of investigators with federal. state and local law enforcement agencies in Los Angeles County.

BVV's gone crazy!!

The Dual 50L Double Jacketed Stainless Steel Reactor Turnkey Setup includes all the neccessary components to perform extraction, reaction, and winterization.The first reactor is used as both a solvent pre-chilling vessel and collection base. The second reactor is used for botanical material extraction. Using nitrogen pressure, the pre-chilled solvent is pushed from the first vessel into the second vessel until material is completely saturated. Once all material has been saturated, the solvent will be pushed back into the first vessel for collection and further winterization. This setup is ideal for large scale ethanol extraction and gives the user the ability to process 50-100lbs per day. For consulting on your specific needs, please give us a call so we can discuss which setup might be best for your lab.

Dual 50L Double Jacketed Stainless Steel Reactor Turnkey Setup Includes:

2x 50L Double Jacketed Stainless Steel Reactor
Welch 2.3 cfm High Capacity 4-Head Oil-Free Diaphragm Chemical Vacuum Pump
2x Polyscience 45 Liter Advanced Digital Refrigerated Circulator (-25°C/135°C)
20ft of 1/4" Vacuum Tubing
20ft of 3/8" Silicone Tubing
10 Pack of Adjustable Stainless Steel Hose Clamps
Vacuum Manifold
2x 1/2" 72" FJIC Stainless Steel Hose
1/4" HVAC Hose
250 Stainless Steel Ball Bearings
1/4" Flare to 1/4" Barb Adapter
Norstar Nitrogen purging regulator

https://www.bestvaluevacs.com/dual-50l-double-jacketed-stainless-steel-reactor-turnkey-setup.html

The unit in your picture is a Pope wiped film unit, not a jacketed reactor. I cannot get the video to load so maybe you are referring to something different.

As far as I understand it the jacketed glass reactors are used for cold ethanol extraction similar to QWET on a large scale

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0G39Yuzmqig

My apologies to The Pope.

Here's a video I've seen of a jacketed reactor supposedly sold for use as you describe, why I've asked what are you guys really using them for???

"Ryan Conley Interviews Robert Gaither of Dab Genius at Seattle Hempfest 2014"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s6JswzZrjw


Another pic from the Ventura take down.

SkyHighLer said:

My apologies to The Pope.

Here's a video I've seen of a jacketed reactor supposedly sold for use as you describe, why I've asked what are you guys really using them for???

"Ryan Conley Interviews Robert Gaither of Dab Genius at Seattle Hempfest 2014"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s6JswzZrjw


Another pic from the Ventura take down.

Click to expand...

This is a Bizzybee hydrocarbon extractor.

I just popped on this thread, but I've been in cannabis distillation for years now. I have never seen anyone do anything but extraction with those jacketed reactors. I've never seen one used for distillation and would personally never use one for that.

dybert said:

This is a Bizzybee hydrocarbon extractor.

I just popped on this thread, but I've been in cannabis distillation for years now. I have never seen anyone do anything but extraction with those jacketed reactors. I've never seen one used for distillation and would personally never use one for that.

Click to expand...

I know everyone likes steel, but the glass ones are very common and cheap. A 20L glass reactor is like $4500
All reactors don't do any one thing really well, but they can do a huge amount of different things. They are very flexible machines. If you guys need a reactor, chiller, or roto go to the website and tell them you're from ICMAG for a discount.
Here is a short list

• Distillation
• extraction
• winterization/dewaxing
• crystallization
• terpene extraction
• liquid to liquid separations
• water hash