Haskel pneumatic refrigerant pumps

flatslabs · Dec 19, 2014

Mind you I don't know too much about air compressors other than how to turn it on and plug my impact wrench in or air up my tire, but they do make compressors with built in gasoline (and I assume other fuel) generators, haven't bothered to look into screw compressors. Would something like this with a separate air storage tank work with some engineering?

http://www.maxtool.com/ingersoll-ra...ne-30-gallon-horizontal-compressor-25-0-cfm-s

Sorry, didn't see GW mentioned them above before I replied.

Gray Wolf · Dec 21, 2014

Hydrosun · Dec 21, 2014

How about Dave throw up some photos and PDFs? Then we can talk over design specks and installation solutions.

:joint:

Gray Wolf · Dec 23, 2014

Breakover · Dec 23, 2014

I know this may be a dumb question, but is it possible to take the pump end of the ext420 and connect it to a crankshaft driven by, say, a variable speed explosion proof electric motor?

It would seem that even if it doubled or tripled the price of the pump, it'd still be cheaper than an air compressor.

Dave at Haskel · Dec 23, 2014

Hydrosun said:
How about Dave throw up some photos and PDFs? Then we can talk over design specks and installation solutions.

Thanks for asking, below is a rendering of the EXT420 and a PDF of the top level assembly drawing.

Please let me know your questions about specifications and installation solutions. From what I've seen, everybody has their way of doing extraction and they are all similar, but adjusted to meet their specific preferences. If you have questions about the "best way" to use the EXT420, I can give general guidelines and answer specific usage questions and help you figure out how best way to use the pump to meet your specific preferences.

Dave

Hydrosun · Dec 23, 2014

The photos don't appear in your post. Perhaps you can e-mail them to GW and he can post them. It can be tricky learning the forum software.

:joint:

Dave at Haskel · Dec 23, 2014

pusbag said:
Cool thought i was the only solar powered extract artist out there.

Interesting timing of this comment. I was talking to our Engineering Manager yesterday and he said to me (without me bringing up these comments about using the pump away from the grid) "Do you think there would be a market for a battery powered EXT420?". I then told him about this discussion and he get very excited! He thinks we could get a battery that would run the EXT420 for about 20 minutes, which I think would be about time to pump the butane used in a 1 pound batch (you would probably need two batteries, one to pump the butane in, then one to pump it out).

Now don't anyone start charging batteries in anticipation of a battery operated EXT420. We don't currently have a design for our pumps that uses an electric motor, nor the battery pack, but the Engineering Manager thinks it is doable.

I'd like to hear if you think there would be a significant market for a battery powered EXT420.

Dave

Dave at Haskel · Dec 23, 2014

Hydrosun said:
The photos don't appear in your post. Perhaps you can e-mail them to GW and he can post them. It can be tricky learning the forum software.

Huh, I can see them. Oh well, I'll send them to GW and ask him to post them.

Thanks,

Dave

Dave at Haskel · Dec 23, 2014

Northern Lab said:
I know this may be a dumb question, but is it possible to take the pump end of the ext420 and connect it to a crankshaft driven by, say, a variable speed explosion proof electric motor?

It would seem that even if it doubled or tripled the price of the pump, it'd still be cheaper than an air compressor.

Not a dumb question, many people in a variety of industries have asked for an electrically driven Haskel pump. It's not a simple conversion, the Haskel air motor has a reciprocating motion (back and forth), while a normal motor has a rotary motion. Yes, there are devices that convert rotary motion into reciprocating, but it is more challenging than just that, one of the big benefits of a compressed air driven pump is that it automatically adjusts for changes in the load (pressure changes), while an electric motor can't do that. However, as I mentioned in another post, we are looking for an electric approach, which would include a battery powered approach.

Dave

Gray Wolf · Dec 23, 2014

Northern Lab said:
I know this may be a dumb question, but is it possible to take the pump end of the ext420 and connect it to a crankshaft driven by, say, a variable speed explosion proof electric motor?

It would seem that even if it doubled or tripled the price of the pump, it'd still be cheaper than an air compressor.

Not an outlandish thought. I've previously suggested a stainless pneumatic cylinder with PTFE piston rings, and two opposite check valves on both ends, so that it acts as a pump when we cycle the shaft in either direction.

I made jokes about running it from the rear wheel of a Volkswagon, but envisioned the end of the cylinder rod attached to an eccentric link, attached to a fly wheel, somewhat like a steam engine, and rotated by a totally enclosed fan cooled NEMA 7 electric motor.

Not a hard design, but tooling up would be expensive.

My thought is that the first person to tool up and supply the answer to our Maidens Prayer, will find a strong market, somewhat like gold pans during the gold rush.

Breakover · Dec 23, 2014

Thanks for the quick answer Dave! And welcome to the forum!

Gray Wolf · Dec 23, 2014

Dave at Haskel said:
Interesting timing of this comment. I was talking to our Engineering Manager yesterday and he said to me (without me bringing up these comments about using the pump away from the grid) "Do you think there would be a market for a battery powered EXT420?". I then told him about this discussion and he get very excited! He thinks we could get a battery that would run the EXT420 for about 20 minutes, which I think would be about time to pump the butane used in a 1 pound batch (you would probably need two batteries, one to pump the butane in, then one to pump it out).

Now don't anyone start charging batteries in anticipation of a battery operated EXT420. We don't currently have a design for our pumps that uses an electric motor, nor the battery pack, but the Engineering Manager thinks it is doable.

I'd like to hear if you think there would be a significant market for a battery powered EXT420.

Dave

An even stronger market for a 120/240Vac single phase electric motor.

PS: You can run generators in the pucker brush.

Gray Wolf · Dec 23, 2014

Hydrosun said:
The photos don't appear in your post. Perhaps you can e-mail them to GW and he can post them. It can be tricky learning the forum software.

Thanks Dave! Here is the pump Rendering and other file of four pictures.

ple1ades · Dec 23, 2014

Gray Wolf said:
An even stronger market for a 120/240Vac single phase electric motor.

PS: You can run generators in the pucker brush.

I would take one of each.

Dave at Haskel · Dec 24, 2014

Gray Wolf said:
An even stronger market for a 120/240Vac single phase electric motor.

PS: You can run generators in the pucker brush.

Thanks for the input - I'll pass it on to engineering.

Dave

Dave at Haskel · Dec 24, 2014

Gray Wolf said:
Thanks Dave! Here is the pump Rendering and other file of four pictures.

Thanks for adding the pictures. I think I know what I did wrong for next time.

Dave

HL45 · Dec 25, 2014

Dave and gw, just thinking out loud here.. given the specs of the Haskel I was wondering if someone could possibly run two machines to a t with ball valves and recover with one pump. Obviously pressure would equalize between the two machines as vapor during recovery and you would need to be attentive of each machines process or step during the cycle ie flood or dump or recover..you might have two flood tanks and one recovery tank .. I just imagined that with more evaporative surface area you might be able to work more material during a work session.

Gw since the Haskel is rated for the application you could recover to -29.9 ? as long as it was interfering with the dewired end result of your product(shatter vs wax)

Gray Wolf · Dec 25, 2014

HL45 said:
Dave and gw, just thinking out loud here.. given the specs of the Haskel I was wondering if someone could possibly run two machines to a t with ball valves and recover with one pump. Obviously pressure would equalize between the two machines as vapor during recovery and you would need to be attentive of each machines process or step during the cycle ie flood or dump or recover..you might have two flood tanks and one recovery tank .. I just imagined that with more evaporative surface area you might be able to work more material during a work session.

Gw since the Haskel is rated for the application you could recover to -29.9 ? as long as it was interfering with the dewired end result of your product(shatter vs wax)

The Haskel wouldn't care how many units were hooked to it, it would just continue to remove what vapors were available to it through the plumbing.

Even with well balanced plumbing, , the multiple units would not stay at the same state of completion, because their contents will be different, so while it would work OK for removing the gross solvent, it would average out and compromise the finishes on the multiple chambers.

As a consideration, the Mk VI design uses dual Haskels, with both doing gross recovery, or one doing gross recovery and the other finishing off one of the four pots.

Even though the Haskel will pull a deeper vacuum, it is still running dry under vacuum, which increases wear on the piston seals. I will leave the question open for Dave as to what those effects are on the Haskel design.

ple1ades · Dec 25, 2014

Dave at Haskel said:
Thanks for the input - I'll pass it on to engineering.

Dave

I want a ext420 in any trim asap pneumatic electric or battery assist. Please Dave let me know what my time frame is on getting one ready for sale or testing.

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