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Plants look droopy under CMH

The_Skunkist

~~ Auto Ninja ~~
ICMag Donor
Veteran
When you turn a powerfull light on 24h/0 .You always have to be super aware about (sometimes severe) CAL/MAG deficiencies .

That's why 24/0 light cycle is not so recommended .
If you use them in mono nutrient it's 1 part of Mg for 2 part of Ca.

And for sure, all the other nutes have to follow . :)

Are your plants growing faster and bigger under cMH ?
So more Ca and Mg and nutes (than your habits) is logical .

Most of the nutes supplements or "boosters" on the market are N - Mg - Ca complexes .

I hope it helps . :tiphat:
 

ambertrichome

Active member
Veteran
4ft for 400w IMHO is way to far from the plants.

I start seedlings under 1000w Hortilux HPS at 24 inches in a 4 x 4 area. I'm not using RW, but that not important.

Id watch out for excess drying, and lower the lights. Lowering lights will also make it dry out faster of course.

A 1000w Hortilux/HPS puts out 62.5w sq/ft at 24 inches and 4 x 4. In veg/flowering I can get them 18-20 inches with good airflow.

I almost always use a 24 hours veg cycle.

In chemical gardening, I use 20% of recommended dose of Fert, and Water/Feed Everytime, in Both Veg/Flowering. Seedlings get half of that, starting at the second watering, after they pop the soil, so I never get any deficiencies.
I rarely have to skip a Feeding with this watering scheme, but its something to watch out for, and is not out of the question.
With my tap water I use 1tsp Magnesium per 5 gallons water
 

samiam

Member
Okay guys well now im getting tacoing leaves.
My humidity is at 60% with 75f temps.

The same mother plant is doing fine under MH. All these problems started when I switched the lights to CMH.

Are they still just trying to adjust to the CMH lights?
I'm not sure what else I can do.
 

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Snook

Still Learning
Veteran
Okay guys well now im getting tacoing leaves.
My humidity is at 60% with 75f temps.

The same mother plant is doing fine under MH. All these problems started when I switched the lights to CMH.

Are they still just trying to adjust to the CMH lights?
I'm not sure what else I can do.
go back to the MH, see what happens..
 

Spaventa

...
Veteran
Okay guys well now im getting tacoing leaves.
My humidity is at 60% with 75f temps.

The same mother plant is doing fine under MH. All these problems started when I switched the lights to CMH.

Are they still just trying to adjust to the CMH lights?
I'm not sure what else I can do.

Coincidence and causation are often confused. This has nothing to do with your light. Its probably feeding, possibly due to ph or an issue with root environment.
 

iTarzan

Well-known member
Hey skunkist can you link a thread or article. I have run into unexplained cal/mag symptoms that went away. I did stop 24 hr light too but I didn't know about this.
 

samiam

Member
I adjusted my pH down to 5.5 from 5.8. I pulled one out of the pot and all the roots are nice n white no sign of root rot or bugs in the roots or leaves.

I will add the plants are growing much faster under the CMH vs the MH.
 

Spaventa

...
Veteran
Did you calibrate the ph meter as suggested by zeez? I would. What nutrients are you using, sorry if you said already I don't see it.

The more likely cause of deficiency when you been feeding plenty, is toxicity. For instance too much potassium will lock other nutrients out so the visible symptom of K toxicity is Mg, P and eventually N deficiency. You get taco leaves with Mg so maybe look at that

Other thing is that when problems appear, they didn't just appear ;) something was going wrong before you changed the light. The only possibly of any causation could have been the increased useable light raised the metabolic rate and problems showed up more - raising the game will expose any weakness.
 

WHIPEDMEAT

Modortalan
Supermod
Veteran
3 main reason can cause it,
ca- mg deficiency
heat and humidity stress with overwater
or some parasites aphids i think

look the leaves closer that can be clue if this comes from imbalance of nutes you may notice discoloration on the leaves
 

Sport Farmer

Active member
Veteran
They look hungry to me.. And possibly a heat issue? Slight droop and light colored lime green is always a sign they need more food.. Your leaves should be shooting for the light if all conditions are correct.. I see some slight droop and the color is very light which generally indicates they are hungry.. but I could be thrown off by the lighting in your pictures.. Hard to say without being right there, but that was my initial impression lookin' at the pics..

One of my plants takes 2.2 ec / 1100'ish ppm's in veg and wants more!! When they don't have enough ppm's then I get lime green leaves with droop/clawing that looks similar to overwatering. They're speaking to you, but you aren't doing what they are asking. I know It sucks, but you will just have to experiment and try some things and see what sticks or doesn't..
 
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samiam

Member
Okay well it's been over 2 weeks since the switch to CMH and there still droopy with coconing leaves.
I don't see any nute defs, the roots look nice n white, pH is now at 5.6 run off and bumped the EC from 1.2 to 1.9.
They are growing big but look very unhappy.

Been feeding them recharge twice a week and Epsom foiler, but doesn't seem to be helping either.

Also been checking for bugs using a 150x scope in roots and leaves.

Does anyone have any other suggestions besides going back to MH.

Temps are still 75F humidity 60% light are still 4 foot above canopy
 

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Spaventa

...
Veteran
Okay well it's been over 2 weeks since the switch to CMH and there still droopy with coconing leaves.
I don't see any nute defs, the roots look nice n white, pH is now at 5.6 run off and bumped the EC from 1.2 to 1.9.
They are growing big but look very unhappy.

Been feeding them recharge twice a week and Epsom foiler, but doesn't seem to be helping either.

Also been checking for bugs using a 150x scope in roots and leaves.

Does anyone have any other suggestions besides going back to MH.

Temps are still 75F humidity 60% light are still 4 foot above canopy

Switch back to MH. It won't fix your plants at all but do it anyway so you prove it to yourself. Its only the timeline coincidence that plaguing you with suspicions about the CMH. Never in all of CMH history has there ever been an case of droop by CMH. Its more likely your plants have some infection.
 
M

moose eater

4' seems like a long distance, as has been stated earlier.

If they're growing fast, that might be a matter of reaching for light, the same way plants get spindly under insufficient lighting.

On the other hand, if they're growing faster, and still pale, then it may be your efforts toward adjusting ph and ec were correct, made some improvements, but not enough yet, & they may also still be reaching, but the growth rate indicates they're burning through some nutes at a good clip.

Problem being is that often times, we're dealing with multiple variables, and trying to single out ONE thing or variable, isn't always realistic/totally effective, other than to show 'some' improvement or further decrease in viability.

Like trying to communicate with someone wherein there's only a marginal understanding of each others' language, so it can be when trying to determine what the plant is telling us. Especially with so many issues displaying similar symptoms.

I've got a Ghost Train Haze #1 mom right now that is under 315 cmh, and hasn't pulled out of her droopiness since 2 soil batches ago. Not nearly as resilient in that regard as the other varieties near her. I assume she's 1.) more fickle than the others, 2.) having a stronger reaction to the excess salts I suspect were in the batch during the efforts at a new mix before the current, or 3.) has suffered in some other way that she's angry about and simply throwing a tantrum of sorts, refusing to pull out of it until I take fresh clones, and give her the soil she used to (apparently) prefer.

If anyone knows a good GHT#1 interpreter, who speaks that language -fluently-, please send them my way. ;^>)
 

samiam

Member
Maybe your right moose, it must just be this alien og don't like the CMH and nutes I've got some gg#4 going in next lets see how they handle it.
 
M

moose eater

One advantage to multiple strains at the same time (albeit in my case, the strains are isolated in different locations/boxes, helping to sort out feeding and watering times/needs better, but the soil mix and nutes are more or less identical) is that if some varieties react well, and others don't, then you can assume to -some- degree that it may well be -that- plant's preferences, versus something horribly and inherently wrong with the lights, mix, nutes, etc.

To some degree, it's similar to having a 'control group.'

When they ALL protest, look at your mix, care, etc.

When only 1 protests, look at IT. Not that it isn't telling you something valuable, but that it's more specific to THAT variety/strain.

I, like others, doubt that it's specific to the cmh's. It's more apt to be something re. the variety you're growing, or to do with other (as of yet) unknown factors.

Good luck!! (Joking: try lecturing them about their non-helpful behavior!!) ;^>)
 

Scrappy-doo

Well-known member
You check for russetts?

I've had plants look like your first pics when I first switched to cmh eventually realized they need more food.

Your last pic they don't look droopy or faded so I think upping the EC helped but those taco leaves are not something I ever got when I had that issue. First thing that comes to mind when I see that is russetts or some other micro bug.
 

samiam

Member
Imo I should have started them from clone under the CMH instead of half way vegging with the MH.

There are no bugs that I can find. I thank once I put them in the flower room under the HPS lights they will be fine.
 
Imo I should have started them from clone under the CMH instead of half way vegging with the MH.

There are no bugs that I can find. I thank once I put them in the flower room under the HPS lights they will be fine.

Hopefully it's not russets like scrappy said or broad mites like I got a couple months ago. Mine didn't hit hard until flowering started until then my girls had no symptoms. If you have looked under 150x you would've seen them though check the growth tips that's where they would be. I veg and flower under the same enhanced spectrum 400w eye hortilux super hps. It has enough blue for vegging seems to work just fine and the plants never have to adjust to a different light. Good luck
 

Phaeton

Speed of Dark
Veteran
Okay guys well now im getting tacoing leaves.
My humidity is at 60% with 75f temps.

The same mother plant is doing fine under MH. All these problems started when I switched the lights to CMH.

Are they still just trying to adjust to the CMH lights?
I'm not sure what else I can do.

Hmmm, tacoing of the leaves is their attempt to dissipate heat. Light energy is heat, a lot of which is used in chemical reactions, which use the energy to build molecules.
Unused light ups the temperature and must be gotten rid of. Evaporation and air transfer are the main avenues, but when that does not do enough the leaves start angling away from the light. The 'taco' look is folding both sides of the leaf up at the same time to reduce the area light can reach.

Ambient temperature can be moderate but a higher proportion of unused light can put the surface temperature of the leaf much higher than ambient.

Blue light is absorbed best, almost no limit, red is absorbed well but with a definite limit. Green, yellow and orange are not well used and create mostly waste heat.
MH is heavy on blue, switching to CMH adds balance, which involves more green, yellow, orange and red. At the same umol intensities the CMH is going to create considerable more heat in the leaf itself, more than it heats the air.

Growing techniques will be subtly different, bulbs can be slightly further away, humidity can be lower, and the plants will adapt as well with a little time.

Backing the lights away a bit may help the taco, or perhaps more air circulation through the canopy itself if possible.
A sprayer full of water set for the finest misting will show the path of the air without damaging the plants or equipment. Just don't spray directly on hot bulbs.
 
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