The Lounge : Growers Round Table Discussion Thread

jidoka · Jun 9, 2018

cannascholar · Jun 10, 2018

Some og at day 33 grown mainly w the slow n approach. Jidoka right about experiments being bad sometimes, pushed Co and other micros and had enough to male flowers to lose sleep at night. Luckily the pollen seems sterile.

clearheaded · Jun 10, 2018

MrBungle said:
Isn't there something else you can reduce the Potassium so you can just use AgSil?

diatomacious earth if soil. again very fine amorphous silica which is slightly more apt to at least exchange its 02. what RAW sells as silica supliment so maybe ask them if they ran any tests?

gather some horsetail?

I am sure we all heard the story of the guy who ran water through many micro glass capiliries that yeilded a gel like substance. which turned out to be from dissolved glass.

MrBungle · Jun 10, 2018

Thanks clearheaded, I was referring to his salt formula... I was wondering if he (Jidoka) could cut back or replace something that had a lot of K in it, so that he could replace it with the K found in AgSil..

Like if he was using Potassium Sulfate in his formula.... He could cut that out of the formula and replace the K with the K found in Agsil, and then all he would need to do is find something to replace sulfur...

That's just a basic example... He (Jidoka)said he is only using 4 salts for his formula, so I'm guessing he wants to keep it simple in that respect

growingcrazy · Jun 11, 2018

MrBungle said:
Thanks clearheaded, I was referring to his salt formula... I was wondering if he (Jidoka) could cut back or replace something that had a lot of K in it, so that he could replace it with the K found in AgSil..

Like if he was using Potassium Sulfate in his formula.... He could cut that out of the formula and replace the K with the K found in Agsil, and then all he would need to do is find something to replace sulfur...

That's just a basic example... He (Jidoka)said he is only using 4 salts for his formula, so I'm guessing he wants to keep it simple in that respect

How much Si do you like (ppm) mr.bungle? At a near 1:1 it is difficult to use as a sole K source.

Calnit, MAP, MKP, Agsil + micros? Thats my guess...

MrBungle · Jun 11, 2018

I have kept Si at 100 ppm in my formula...which is .72 grams of agSil per gallon I don't remember what that yields in K, but I'm sure its a fair amount... I'd have to look at my old spread sheets... I'm also not up on my elemental values of salts.. I've been running on auto pilot with my formula for a while now, which is kinda lazy I know, but I guess when you find something that works (for the most part) stick with it right?

bsgospel · Jun 11, 2018

Roughly 130? Agsil 16, yes?

MrBungle · Jun 11, 2018

Agsil 16h which is 32.4% K2O and 52.8% SiO2 I know that is the soluble form of both elements, which actually affects the ppm when you convert it over to K and Si... I used to have a handy cheat sheet for all that stuff, but its not handy

jidoka · Jun 11, 2018

https://customhydronutrients.com/po...o-528-sio2-20-pounds-p-132.html?cPath=1_60_68

I hope that worked

What I used for my outdo was cano3, mkp, Epsom and STEM for micros. And maybe one foliar I haven’t mentioned

Map is questionable in light soil cause of the ph effect

Edit...doh, look under description

MrBungle · Jun 11, 2018

"Weekly drenches in soilless or other low silicon soil/media systems. 45-50 ppm Si (~100ppm SiO2)" from the above link

apparently I rattled off the SiO2 ppm originally... the actual Si ppm is closer to 50ppm

jidoka · Jun 11, 2018

Yup. If you go higher you will form polymers which, if you don’t filter them, will plug up micro sprinklers

bsgospel · Jun 12, 2018

MrBungle said:
"Weekly drenches in soilless or other low silicon soil/media systems. 45-50 ppm Si (~100ppm SiO2)" from the above link

apparently I rattled off the SiO2 ppm originally... the actual Si ppm is closer to 50ppm

Yeah I did the same in my spreadsheet. And it probably should have been closer to 110~ (K2O)

Edit 85. I'm not on my game today

Edit again 107. Fuck. Jeezus.

growingcrazy · Jun 12, 2018

bsgospel said:
Yeah I did the same in my spreadsheet. And it probably should have been closer to 110~ (K2O)

Edit 85. I'm not on my game today

Edit again 107. Fuck. Jeezus.

Thank You Avenger!

I run Si @ 35-25 in flower.

2 out of 4 ferts isn't a bad guess...

I like the STEM micro's from peters...used that when I was first getting into production. Works well. I still those numbers for simple base recipes.

Plants all finally in ground! half in 400's and others in 2 yard mounds. I wanted to see the difference this year.

Avenger · Jun 12, 2018

52.8 times ten equals 528 ppm from one gram Agsil 16h in one liter final volume solution

divide 528 by 3.785 and you get 139.5 ppm in one gallon final volume solution from one gram Agsil 16h

SiO2 is 46.75% w/w silicon(Si), so ...

139.5 times 0.4675= 65.22 ppm silicon (Si) from one gram Agsil 16h in one gallon final volume solution.

65.22 x 0.7 = 45.7 ppm Silicon from 0.7 grams in one gallon final volume
65.22 x 1.25= 81.5 ppm Silicon from 1.25 grams in one gallon final volume

the solubility limit is ~120 ppm SiO2[~56 ppm Si]

MrBungle · Jun 12, 2018

Many thanks for showing the math!!

Now I see why some folks preferred to learn it long hand instead of on a spread sheet... it tends to stick in your memory banks longer (WWS)

jidoka · Jun 12, 2018

I find myself going simpler all the time. What you find out is get the macros right and all of a sudden you don’t need every single enzyme in the known universe. You know, the stuff marketing types love to hype

Anyway, we are under $10/lb on fert cost at one salt grow

I still do all my salt calls by hand. It helps me think what to use vs chasing numbers

led05 · Jun 12, 2018

jidoka said:
I still do all my salt calls by hand. It helps me think what to use vs chasing numbers

Bam - exactly

growingcrazy · Jun 12, 2018

Avenger said:
52.8 times ten equals 528 ppm from one gram Agsil 16h in one liter final volume solution

divide 528 by 3.785 and you get 139.5 ppm in one gallon final volume solution from one gram Agsil 16h

SiO2 is 46.75% w/w silicon(Si), so ...

139.5 times 0.4675= 65.22 ppm silicon (Si) from one gram Agsil 16h in one gallon final volume solution.

65.22 x 0.7 = 45.7 ppm Silicon from 0.7 grams in one gallon final volume
65.22 x 1.25= 81.5 ppm Silicon from 1.25 grams in one gallon final volume

the solubility limit is ~120 ppm SiO2[~56 ppm Si]

Thank You! I knew you would cover it!

Rodehazrd · Jun 13, 2018

growingcrazy said:
2-3-1 Fish Hydrolysate, CaCo3, B, Agsil16.

Pure goodness. Agsil emulsifies the oils in the hydrolysate carrying the Ca and B like a champ.

Anyone up for a trial?

Thanks GC could you say something about the ratio of lime,borax and agsil to fish mix? I use a lot of the Fertrell Hydrolysate I put the whole 32 oz bottle into a 6 gallon bucket of water and feed that mix in the stretch and early flower I thin it by half for veg and later flower. I use the armor si in the second watering of the stretch. Combining the two in one drench I like. More calcium? Yes please :tiphat:

growingcrazy · Jun 13, 2018

Rodehazrd said:
Thanks GC could you say something about the ratio of lime,borax and agsil to fish mix? I use a lot of the Fertrell Hydrolysate I put the whole 32 oz bottle into a 6 gallon bucket of water and feed that mix in the stretch and early flower I thin it by half for veg and later flower. I use the armor si in the second watering of the stretch. Combining the two in one drench I like. More calcium? Yes please

Can you go into more detail about pot size, plant size, how much you water in? Any photos? That is in the neighborhood of 850 ppm N...literally 10 times the normal amount of fish I use... I did a test on one plant at your rate...all is well. You can use fish and build a fully balanced 1-1-1 around it with other amendments including Ca and micros... pretty simple to put together depending on the needs.

Since you asked...

3/4 gallon H20
11.5 grams 2-3-1 fish
2.4 grams 32% lime
.012 grams borax (make a concentrate @1.5 grams/gallon,use 2 TBL concentrate per 1 gallon foliar mix)
.4 grams agsil
Fill to 1 gallon.

How I make it...
1.Take a 1 quart ball jar, add lime and 3/4qt h20. Add 5 grams citric acid, it will bubble. Stir for a few minutes. Add a couple grains of citric acid and see if it reacts. If so, add more slowly until reaction stops. This is how I chelate the Ca.
2. Fill a gallon jug with h20,fish,Ca solution. Shake shake shake.
3. Add the 2 TBL B concentrate. shake
4. Add agsil to 1/4 cup h20, stir, then add to final mix. Shake
5. Fill to 1 gallon
6. Apply
I use between .25 - 1 oz / sqft of canopy depending on frequency of application.
ppm is roughly 65-42-50 NPK B@.35 Ca@200 Si@26

Only additional foliar I can recommend is Mn. .4 grams/gallon = 35 ppm. I use that during heavy growth also.

Any criticism is welcome.

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