I definitely might look into that in the future, but for now i don't want promix to beat me.
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4th grow in Promix - I still suck - Help
- Thread starter Jonnysact
- Start date
I definitely might look into that in the future, but for now i don't want promix to beat me.
MrBungle
Active member
a comparison of coco coir and sphagnum peat moss as soil-less media components for plant growth
SUMMARY
"These studies show that coconut coir should be used with great caution. Although the Sri Lanka brands performed better than the Mexican brands, no brand performed consistently better than sphagnum peat. Some species tolerate coir better than others. The addition of calcium sulfate to the media did not have a consistently beneficial effect on growth and in some cases it reduced growth. Thebest growth in coir media occurred in the Grow Coir® brand. We are continuing these studies to determine the underlying causes of poor plant growth in coir"
I like a lil coco coir in my mix, but straight coco is just spinning wheels in my opinion
SUMMARY
"These studies show that coconut coir should be used with great caution. Although the Sri Lanka brands performed better than the Mexican brands, no brand performed consistently better than sphagnum peat. Some species tolerate coir better than others. The addition of calcium sulfate to the media did not have a consistently beneficial effect on growth and in some cases it reduced growth. Thebest growth in coir media occurred in the Grow Coir® brand. We are continuing these studies to determine the underlying causes of poor plant growth in coir"
I like a lil coco coir in my mix, but straight coco is just spinning wheels in my opinion
I use promix with ewc and perlite and a medium. I have experimented with all ranges of pH and found the optimal range to be 6.3-6.8. Some strains did not respond well to that low of pH, so I stick to 6.5-6.8.
It is possible to grow just fine at 5.9 but yield and terpenes will greatly suffer. Remember soil builds an environment and that environment can buffer pH and tolerate inconsistencies fairly well. However to optimize the end result, cannabis, the 6.5-6.8 range is most ideal from my experience, 25 years or so, and tests I have done. At pH 5.9 the plant will struggle to find enough freed up p,k,mag to flower to fullest potential.
It is an easy side by side. Try it you may be surprised how well the plants respond.
Promix, sunshine, Lambert's, etc are all very similar and respond the same way from my experience. I like to use the stuff that's free of nutrients or anything else. I then mix 30% promix, 30% ewc, 30% perlite. Humboldt Mycos is the most amazing bacteria fungus micro herb in a jar i have ever experienced. I feed with Botanicare pure blend pro soil formula only.
This plant is in this mix at 32ish days..
It is possible to grow just fine at 5.9 but yield and terpenes will greatly suffer. Remember soil builds an environment and that environment can buffer pH and tolerate inconsistencies fairly well. However to optimize the end result, cannabis, the 6.5-6.8 range is most ideal from my experience, 25 years or so, and tests I have done. At pH 5.9 the plant will struggle to find enough freed up p,k,mag to flower to fullest potential.
It is an easy side by side. Try it you may be surprised how well the plants respond.
Promix, sunshine, Lambert's, etc are all very similar and respond the same way from my experience. I like to use the stuff that's free of nutrients or anything else. I then mix 30% promix, 30% ewc, 30% perlite. Humboldt Mycos is the most amazing bacteria fungus micro herb in a jar i have ever experienced. I feed with Botanicare pure blend pro soil formula only.
This plant is in this mix at 32ish days..
Attachments
Dude... You can't be watering a sick plant like that too run off... The flushing washed critical salt from soil, dropping ph, and the stagnant water with low dissolved O2 is killing any beneficial food ect you have....
Feed every time only 50 ml or less ( maybe 10% of pot size ) only when surface is fully dry(should never take more than 48hrs) until you up the nutrient level in the medium you will be very susceptible to ph fluctuation. Also as a note to others perlite can be a good indicator of soil toxicity.... Should stay very white, never green or other mould/algae type colours...
Pro mix hp is similar to#4 but ground finer and myco's added...maybe a touch more perlite.
I'd suggest maybe adding a small amount of dolomite, but just working out you feed will help. Definitely need a good full spectrum food in small doses till things even out though, instead of massive over saturation. Spraying on your feed will help it act faster too as your roots are more than likely compromised...
Feed every time only 50 ml or less ( maybe 10% of pot size ) only when surface is fully dry(should never take more than 48hrs) until you up the nutrient level in the medium you will be very susceptible to ph fluctuation. Also as a note to others perlite can be a good indicator of soil toxicity.... Should stay very white, never green or other mould/algae type colours...
Pro mix hp is similar to#4 but ground finer and myco's added...maybe a touch more perlite.
I'd suggest maybe adding a small amount of dolomite, but just working out you feed will help. Definitely need a good full spectrum food in small doses till things even out though, instead of massive over saturation. Spraying on your feed will help it act faster too as your roots are more than likely compromised...
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Thanks Rykus.
What do you mean by "You can't be watering a sick plant like that too run off"?
I understand it's good to water your plants until you get approximately 20% runoff, which is what I am doing so there is no flushing happening.
So you're saying only give them very little bits of water when they are dry and sick until they are healthy again, and then give them the normal amounts of water?
Thank you for the clarification.
What do you mean by "You can't be watering a sick plant like that too run off"?
I understand it's good to water your plants until you get approximately 20% runoff, which is what I am doing so there is no flushing happening.
So you're saying only give them very little bits of water when they are dry and sick until they are healthy again, and then give them the normal amounts of water?
Thank you for the clarification.
That's not true rykus. I water every plant to runoff everytime I water.
OP, nice job, those babies are coming around now!! I would not worries about runoff pH or ppm. If you make sure what goes in is correct, the runoff will be irrelevant.
Next feed I would up the nutes to 600 depending on how fast they green up from last feeding.
Keep us posted!
OP, nice job, those babies are coming around now!! I would not worries about runoff pH or ppm. If you make sure what goes in is correct, the runoff will be irrelevant.
Next feed I would up the nutes to 600 depending on how fast they green up from last feeding.
Keep us posted!
Thank you Lester. I absolutely will.
I recently sprouted a new baby that just popped out yesterday morning. I will be careful to give it correct water and feeding and PRAY that i get my first plant that maintains GREEN stems, GREEN leaves, and doesn't suffer. Man, I just want one good grow. lol
I recently sprouted a new baby that just popped out yesterday morning. I will be careful to give it correct water and feeding and PRAY that i get my first plant that maintains GREEN stems, GREEN leaves, and doesn't suffer. Man, I just want one good grow. lol
As Lester pointed out, not essential if the clone is happy, medium is correct and you are maintaining a balanced ph/EC.... The problem is is that if you only have 1 litre of medium and you add enough water to run out, you will be lowering the oxygen/medium/food ratio... This is why hydroponics is thought to have the highest yeild and growth, but really it is just maintaining a more consistent environment will help the plant uptake all the desired elements and be the highest health and resistance.
Peat because of the extreme acidity is dependant on dolomite added by the manufacturer to maintain optimal ph... Watering to run off rinses some of the lime out making for a less stable medium. Also depending on the ratio to perlite, peat can and often does go toxic, which I can plainly see by the colour of your perlite.... So if ideal ratio for full nutrient uptake is let's say 40-50% h2o then the plant is only getting what it needs out of the soil for a smaller window with more h2o... You will garuntee'd see immediate growth increase by either using a higher ratio of perlite on smaller plants to maintain a more optimal environment even watering to run out, or just water way less every day until plant has established its drinking needs...
If you are convinced water till run off is a better system I would recommend a coco/perlite mix as it is less dependant on ph buffers and holds more air.
Think of it like a baby fish.... You can't just dump in enough food for a big fish until it grows, the water will go toxic from extra food and kill the fish,lol.... A fresh rooted clone only drinks a once or so of liquid.... Any more and you are just creating an anaerobic environment that the plant is going to have to fight through.... All good with some strains... Not others...
I will 1000% garuntee'd in any side by side in any medium say a clone will take of WAY faster when fed a small amount every day for first week, rather than saturated to run out and let sit till the same 7 day stretch... IMO anyhow...but maybe that just me,lol.
(Got a thread bout my take on it if ya want to get a few ideas where I comin from)
Just so 100% clear, I advise to not water till run out till green matter of plant='s size of container... Run out is to prevent build up if cations and anions that could build to toxic for plants, but not an issue till fed at least a couple weeks. Ime this will be the fastest easiest way.
Maintain a consistent food/water/air ratio by adding a small feed at mid ppm every time till established then water once to run out and asses drinking time... If over 48 hrs till surface dries then go back to smaller feeds again for another few days and try again. If soil is wet top till bottom for over 3 days damage WILL occur.... IMO...
Peat because of the extreme acidity is dependant on dolomite added by the manufacturer to maintain optimal ph... Watering to run off rinses some of the lime out making for a less stable medium. Also depending on the ratio to perlite, peat can and often does go toxic, which I can plainly see by the colour of your perlite.... So if ideal ratio for full nutrient uptake is let's say 40-50% h2o then the plant is only getting what it needs out of the soil for a smaller window with more h2o... You will garuntee'd see immediate growth increase by either using a higher ratio of perlite on smaller plants to maintain a more optimal environment even watering to run out, or just water way less every day until plant has established its drinking needs...
If you are convinced water till run off is a better system I would recommend a coco/perlite mix as it is less dependant on ph buffers and holds more air.
Think of it like a baby fish.... You can't just dump in enough food for a big fish until it grows, the water will go toxic from extra food and kill the fish,lol.... A fresh rooted clone only drinks a once or so of liquid.... Any more and you are just creating an anaerobic environment that the plant is going to have to fight through.... All good with some strains... Not others...
I will 1000% garuntee'd in any side by side in any medium say a clone will take of WAY faster when fed a small amount every day for first week, rather than saturated to run out and let sit till the same 7 day stretch... IMO anyhow...but maybe that just me,lol.
(Got a thread bout my take on it if ya want to get a few ideas where I comin from)
Just so 100% clear, I advise to not water till run out till green matter of plant='s size of container... Run out is to prevent build up if cations and anions that could build to toxic for plants, but not an issue till fed at least a couple weeks. Ime this will be the fastest easiest way.
Maintain a consistent food/water/air ratio by adding a small feed at mid ppm every time till established then water once to run out and asses drinking time... If over 48 hrs till surface dries then go back to smaller feeds again for another few days and try again. If soil is wet top till bottom for over 3 days damage WILL occur.... IMO...
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I am tempted to believe your methods because the only time I ever had a good grow, was when I found males, took them out of the box and placed them on the window sill. Only time I ever saw a perfect looking plant. Didn't PH the water, straight from tap. Only SLIGHTLY watered them at the fist sign of wilting. Never had runoff, and basically watered every other day. But dammit, when I try to follow the numbers, the science and good method, that's when everything goes to crap 
get some real fine powdered dolomite lime maybe. Mixing this into soiless mix seems to make it easier on the new grower.
I've always added it to my soiless mixes.
could this be why I get fantastic results with 6.3 veg 5.8 flower? potency and flavour are always spot on, yields very acceptable ..... wonder if I could do better on the yields.
Heck I've got lots to learn, despite growing since the 90's. maybe i'll play with the PH some and see if my plants still like it
I've always added it to my soiless mixes.
could this be why I get fantastic results with 6.3 veg 5.8 flower? potency and flavour are always spot on, yields very acceptable ..... wonder if I could do better on the yields.
Heck I've got lots to learn, despite growing since the 90's. maybe i'll play with the PH some and see if my plants still like it
Idk last bag of pro mix I bought looked like it was used soil from somewhere complete with root mass and bits of trash. Don't use anymore as I believe it was the undoing of my last garden. Lost a lot of genetics I was supposed to keep around. And your girl look like mine did last time I used pro mix. Quality product gone down hill. Idk about waiting for sign of wilting to feed/water as I went by weight/feeling of picking up the pot in my hand.
Maybe the prolix you got was old or stored outside. I don't think you have to go as far as saying the product has gone downhill just because you got a bad batch.
MrBungle
Active member
I use the same peat that they use in pro mix.. the 10 dollar green bag of premier at home depot, and mix my own.... all I gotta say is... the perlite in promix is pathetic.... the same as fox farms ocean forest.... From my observations both of those products are not the same quality since I started growing
I use my own puffy perlite that actually looks like it might do its job... and I know exactly how much of each of my amendments I am adding.. and I ain't afraid to reuse my mix after a harvest.... sure its a little more work, but I promise you, when you see your own soil work better than what you buy at the store, it feels good.
I use my own puffy perlite that actually looks like it might do its job... and I know exactly how much of each of my amendments I am adding.. and I ain't afraid to reuse my mix after a harvest.... sure its a little more work, but I promise you, when you see your own soil work better than what you buy at the store, it feels good.
Whoa, a little yellow? Dude, those plants are fucked! That is a textbook pic of a severely Mg deficient plant.
Your pH is way too low and has been for some time, locking out Mg completely. Look at how yellow the leaves are- that's due to a complete lack of Mg in the plant due to pH lockout of Mg. Mg makes up the central ion in chlorophyll.... your plant can't absorb Mg from the soil because the pH is too low, making chlorophyll synthesis all but stop- thus the yellow, sickly plant.
You need to immediately:
a) water at 8.0-8.5 about 5x the volume of your soil/container... You will see if you repeatedly measure the pH of the runoff, that your pH will start to rise after multiple flushes. The flush water should consist of 2-300 ppm of epsom salts (available at your local pharmacy.
b) I would personally mix up 200 ppm of veg solution, with 200 ppm of epsom salts. They don't need much food at the moment- they aren't growing!!!! Just like feeding a severely malnourished human, you don't want to sit them down for a full on 5 course steak dinner right now. Less is more right now, until you get them back to health.
c) Transplant into larger containers
d) Immediately stop listening to people who tell you to water at pH 5.8. That's insane in Promix, which is naturally acidic and will push down the pH over time as nutrients accumulate. 5.8 is fine for medium-less hydroponics. Watering pH 5.8 in soilless mix is a recipe for disaster.
e) In the future, mix in 2-3 cups of dolmomite lime per bale of Promix before planting. The runoff should be no lower than 6.3. As stated, 6.7 is ideal for Promix.
f) Use containers that are appropriately sized for your plant. Larger pots are better, will provide more soil to buffer pH swings. I like pots that are at least as wide as the plant leaves stretch. so a 3 foot tall plant can handle a 3 gallon pot.
Water at a pH no lower than 6.7. Even then, over a couple of weeks, you will see the pH of the effluent/run off will drop. You want the pH of the medium to be 6.3-6.7 after all is said and done. If you are watering at 6.7 and the pH of the effluent is coming out below 6.3, you are heading for trouble again.
Ensure you ALWAYS have 15-20% runoff from the bottom of the pot. This will stop nutrient buildup which causes the pH to crash, which is locking out Mg and causing your plant to suffer.
If you follow these simple steps you are on the road to recovery. You will see the new growth will start and become a light lime green at first near the tips, then gradually become darker. ALL of the current leaves on your plant are going to die over the next 2 weeks, but the new growth should be healthy. Don't worry about losing those leaves, it's to be expected at this point.
-Chimera
Your pH is way too low and has been for some time, locking out Mg completely. Look at how yellow the leaves are- that's due to a complete lack of Mg in the plant due to pH lockout of Mg. Mg makes up the central ion in chlorophyll.... your plant can't absorb Mg from the soil because the pH is too low, making chlorophyll synthesis all but stop- thus the yellow, sickly plant.
You need to immediately:
a) water at 8.0-8.5 about 5x the volume of your soil/container... You will see if you repeatedly measure the pH of the runoff, that your pH will start to rise after multiple flushes. The flush water should consist of 2-300 ppm of epsom salts (available at your local pharmacy.
b) I would personally mix up 200 ppm of veg solution, with 200 ppm of epsom salts. They don't need much food at the moment- they aren't growing!!!! Just like feeding a severely malnourished human, you don't want to sit them down for a full on 5 course steak dinner right now. Less is more right now, until you get them back to health.
c) Transplant into larger containers
d) Immediately stop listening to people who tell you to water at pH 5.8. That's insane in Promix, which is naturally acidic and will push down the pH over time as nutrients accumulate. 5.8 is fine for medium-less hydroponics. Watering pH 5.8 in soilless mix is a recipe for disaster.
e) In the future, mix in 2-3 cups of dolmomite lime per bale of Promix before planting. The runoff should be no lower than 6.3. As stated, 6.7 is ideal for Promix.
f) Use containers that are appropriately sized for your plant. Larger pots are better, will provide more soil to buffer pH swings. I like pots that are at least as wide as the plant leaves stretch. so a 3 foot tall plant can handle a 3 gallon pot.
Water at a pH no lower than 6.7. Even then, over a couple of weeks, you will see the pH of the effluent/run off will drop. You want the pH of the medium to be 6.3-6.7 after all is said and done. If you are watering at 6.7 and the pH of the effluent is coming out below 6.3, you are heading for trouble again.
Ensure you ALWAYS have 15-20% runoff from the bottom of the pot. This will stop nutrient buildup which causes the pH to crash, which is locking out Mg and causing your plant to suffer.
If you follow these simple steps you are on the road to recovery. You will see the new growth will start and become a light lime green at first near the tips, then gradually become darker. ALL of the current leaves on your plant are going to die over the next 2 weeks, but the new growth should be healthy. Don't worry about losing those leaves, it's to be expected at this point.
-Chimera
