What's new
  • Please note members who been with us for more than 10 years have been upgraded to "Veteran" status and will receive exclusive benefits. If you wish to find out more about this or support IcMag and get same benefits, check this thread here.
  • Important notice: ICMag's T.O.U. has been updated. Please review it here. For your convenience, it is also available in the main forum menu, under 'Quick Links"!

Compensation for victims of the War on Drugs?

W

Water-

Doc, I agree with your opinion that so-called drug rehab is mostly a racket. But I think you will find most of the people in those rehab operations are white. Black people get stopped and often go to jail just because they are black. That's called institutional racism and those people cannot afford those expensive rehab operations.

I disagree with your contention that "the real problem, chemical addiction." The massive increases in addiction to H, meth, or cocaine are a symptom not a cause. The cause is cultural. Ask yourself why? Why do people shoot H laced with whatever? The answer is cultural. Why is the big increase in the last 20 years been mostly in rural poor white environments? I don't have a good answer but all the laws and the drug rehab rackets do not address the "why."

i think drug abuse may be more accepted in certain cultures but it is essentially a symptom of a persons sense of hopelessness.

poor people feel hopeless
 

Betterhaff

Active member
Veteran
this fake news outlet is a blight and cannot even maintain itself after the lies .... pardon me, stories it tries to sell as news. it now must resort to begging to continue its yellow journalism.
It’s not as if Breitbart doesn’t have an agenda either (sarcasm). This is beautiful, from the horse’s mouth, the president of theguardian.org. “The creation of theguardian.org makes it possible for us to forge key strategic partnerships, and engage a wider range of individuals and philanthropic organisations in supporting our global ground-breaking storytelling and reporting.” Keyword…storytelling.
 

DocTim420

The Doctor is OUT and has moved on...
Doc, I agree with your opinion that so-called drug rehab is mostly a racket. But I think you will find most of the people in those rehab operations are white. Black people get stopped and often go to jail just because they are black. That's called institutional racism and those people cannot afford those expensive rehab operations.

I disagree with your contention that "the real problem, chemical addiction." The massive increases in addiction to H, meth, or cocaine are a symptom not a cause. The cause is cultural. Ask yourself why? Why do people shoot H laced with whatever? The answer is cultural. Why is the big increase in the last 20 years been mostly in rural poor white environments? I don't have a good answer but all the laws and the drug rehab rackets do not address the "why."

Two points:

I don't know the racial breakdown of those going to rehab, but I imagine the breakdown should be similar to those facing the judge. Cali prefers to direct drug offenders toward rehab instead of "doing time". Given the choice of going to the joint or going to rehab, I think most people would choose the later--no matter which tribe you belong to.

Second, I think the reason why people seek refuge in chemicals is more "personal" (self medicating) and less "cultural".

About 20 years my lower back blew out and it hurt like a mutha (could not walk with out a cane or lift anything). The only way I could handle therapy and move about was to gobble down Percocets. It was not until I realized my ability to think/reason/critically think/make wise decisions became "inoperable"...and I had to do something different, or lose my source of income--my "brain" was my "money maker".

So I change the paradigm--and focused on "pain management" instead of "pain masking". I learned how to handle my pain, to live with it and accepted that it was going to be part of my daily life till I die. I increased my pain tolerance and things like exercise, muscle conditioning, hypnosis, meditation, and "mind over matter" trickery were the tools I used. LOL, I do smoke more pot and drink more booze than the average person, but I am 100% chemical free; nothing pharmaceutical or magic potions from a Chinese herbalist.

My nephew overdosed on heroin last year because he "couldn't take it". He had a falling out and refused to talk to his dad...even after being told he was dying from cancer. When his dad died he went nuts and tried to self destruct. He crashed his car, his mom's car, his girlfriends car (see a death wish pattern here?) and then a week later he disappeared and was "no mas".

I had Army buddies that got hurt really bad and some overcame and some didn't. At our 10 year reunion, I discovered some became junkies and died on the street and some became CEOs. We all experienced the same horrible duty and did what we did--just some of us were able to reconcile it better than others.

Ask 100 addicts why they became "chemically addicted" and you will get probably 25-50 different answers. Maybe 1 or 2 of the 100 might admit they thought it would be cool to become a drug addict--but there will be a significant number that believed...when the time came, they would be strong enough to walk away from the needle & spoon--kick the habit. In the mean time, the needle & spoon is a provider of comfort "temporarily" (so they think).

What is "the why"? My answer is "it depends". It depends on the person and their situation....not so much which tribe you belong to and what the group believes (aka culture).
 

Brother Nature

Well-known member
Don't think I could really provide an answer on the topic's question, my thought more align with compensation for all effected by the war on drugs, but I can offer my experiences for a little perspective for those who haven't been through the criminal justice system.

I spent a lot of my young life in and out of confinement, a large portion of that being for growing marijuana. Now I'm not a man of color and in fact hardly ever dealt with people of color while on the outside, yet when I was inside, the vast majority of fellow inmates didn't look like me. The majority of these guys were also in there for a lot longer than me, some with much lesser charges. Now, I'm not saying any of these guys were good people or didn't deserve to be there, but I've met much worse who've never been convicted of a crime. So when we have a minority of the country making up the majority of our confined population, that just doesn't seem right to me. I know I'll get flak for it (from people whose opinions mean nothing to me), but I think Obama was onto something with the commutation of those sentenced to non-violent drug offenses.

I think compensation for African Americans, based solely on the effect of the War on Drugs, is a bit shakey of a proposition, but I do understand the thought process behind it and I think these sorts of discussions are good and healthy to have given the political climate of the world. Hopefully we can all keep our egos, ignorance, and prejudice in-check and actually have a decent discussion about something pertinent to modern society.
 

MJPassion

Observer
ICMag Donor
Veteran
i think drug abuse may be more accepted in certain cultures but it is essentially a symptom of a persons sense of hopelessness.

poor people feel hopeless

I agree w the hopelessness part...

But Hollywood stars are far from poor & some of the worst abusers.
 
M

moose eater

Agreed.

However the Hollywood/mostly white, upper-crust crowd faces a whole different kind stress, from superficial relationships, demands, living well beyond their means (for many of them), battling their own ego and maintaining status daily, loss of privacy, etc.

Far different from the "where's my next meal coming from," or the issues of generational trauma and various forms of discrimination in current times, but in their minds, stress none the less..


But they also tend to get rehab, even when popped with a briefcase full of coke. Whereas for years we sentenced predominantly lower-income (often Black) people to -decades- inside deplorable institutions for a relatively small amount of crack; the irony being it was FAR less potent than the powder that was being free-based by those with bigger money in Hollywood.

When our now-deceased Senator Ted Stevens (R-Ak) was about to have his home searched in Girdwood over allegations of official misconduct/corruption, he received an official phone call in advance, telling him they were on the way, they arrived in suits, and carefully, methodically, searched the home fairly thoroughly, but politely.

When the authorities raid a home in lower-income urban America, they just as often enter the front door with either an armored vehicle and SWAT, accompanied by flash-bangs grenades, or they ram the hand-held battery through the door, shattering the thing, taking it off the hinges, and enter with all kinds of weaponry drawn (even when there's little kids in the house), ransacking the place, and breaking stuff as they go.

One factor is money and prestige, but race is proven statistically to be a factor in the harsh treatment, over-charging, and ultimate sentencing.

I agree w the hopelessness part...

But Hollywood stars are far from poor & some of the worst abusers.
 

DocTim420

The Doctor is OUT and has moved on...
Not to open Pandora's box, but if the demographics of people that commit a drug crime AND get caught....are similar to the demographics of those adjudicated and sentenced to prison, then how can one argue a "bias"?

Setting aside the "crack" vs "powder" argument, but this kinda mirrors the illegal immigrant issue. The ratio of illegal immigrants serving time in Federal Prison is much higher than the ratio of illegal immigrants residing in America...why is that?

Could it have anything to do with the possibility that...as percentage of the general population--more illegal immigrants are caught and convicted of Federal crimes than any other demographic group? Hmmm, black people make up about 13% of the nation's population but make up about 1/3 of the prison population--which is similar to the percentage of blacks arrested.

But instead it becomes a "race bait" argument that certain sectors of America is biased against all immigrants, thereby blurring the lines between "legal" (those that took a number and waited their turn) and "illegal" (those that cheated and took cuts in front of the line)....and that blacks are under attack by whitey crackers. Hard to decipher fact from fiction sometimes.

As we know, "justice" in our legal system is directly related to one's available resources. If the DA spends a million bucks to prosecute a particular case--and the defendant's legal team is a public defender, what are the odds the DA will lose? If the defendant is OJ Simpson and has a legal team of the very best, what are the odds the DA will lose?
 

resin_lung

I cough up honey oil
Veteran
Not to open Pandora's box, but if the demographics of people that commit a drug crime AND get caught....are similar to the demographics of those adjudicated and sentenced to prison, then how can one argue a "bias"?

Setting aside the "crack" vs "powder" argument, but this kinda mirrors the illegal immigrant issue. The ratio of illegal immigrants serving time in Federal Prison is much higher than the ratio of illegal immigrants residing in America...why is that?

Could it have anything to do with the possibility that...as percentage of the general population--more illegal immigrants are caught and convicted of Federal crimes than any other demographic group? Hmmm, black people make up about 13% of the nation's population but make up about 1/3 of the prison population--which is similar to the percentage of blacks arrested.

But instead it becomes a "race bait" argument that certain sectors of America is biased against all immigrants, thereby blurring the lines between "legal" (those that took a number and waited their turn) and "illegal" (those that cheated and took cuts in front of the line)....and that blacks are under attack by whitey crackers. Hard to decipher fact from fiction sometimes.

As we know, "justice" in our legal system is directly related to one's available resources. If the DA spends a million bucks to prosecute a particular case--and the defendant's legal team is a public defender, what are the odds the DA will lose? If the defendant is OJ Simpson and has a legal team of the very best, what are the odds the DA will lose?

Are you concidering the fact that low income neighborhoods are patrolled more aggressively and people in them are more likely to deemed suspicious and therefore frisked at higher rates so ipso-facto(NO FUKING CLUE IF IM USING THAT RIGHT!hahha) they get arrested at higher rates.

Cops don't patrol to protect anybody, they patrol for arrests. That's why they don't patrol the more affluent neighborhoods.

I'm from as hood a place as there is but I moved to a nicer part of the Valley. Two pork chops actually just moved in next door. I still spend a lot of my time down in the old neighborhood though. I'm down there at the worst possible hours too. The difference is outrageous.

You can get away with murder in the neighborhood I live in. The last thing these guys want is to arrest their captains, partners or chiefs kid! They avoid it like the fkn plague. You can stand on any corner and casually "slap 5" in the middle of the night to as many people as you like, wearing any color hoodie and saggin like a mothrfkr! They'll just drive right by.

I'm sure that the fact that the residents in nicer neighborhoods are more likely to afford a defense plays a part as well. I'm actually NOT sure....but I wouldn't fkn doubt it!haha

I believe with all my heart that white people have just as many illegal things in their pockets as everybody else.. They just don't drive in these neighborhoods. They probably don't hang out on street corners as much either, but they should be able to if they so choose as it ain't a crime to do so.

Try that shit where I kick it and they'll start circling in minutes, and there ain't gonna be no walking away. They will, without a doubt, be hitting you up!lol

I'm not really into the idea of reparations but that doesn't mean that I think the system has been "fair".... but what is, huh?

Also.... when I say "low income" I mean areas that more Black and Hispanic people call home. That's not to say that there aren't any white people living in these areas, they're just the minority. I got a lot a white homies that couldn't keep up with the fkn heard!lol they'd rather I refer to them as holdouts but FUK THAT SHIT! I calls'em like I sees'em!haha

The pigs know better than to fuk with me but that's another story!lol

If you did take it into concideration I'll gladly go back and re-read your post.

Before you answer..... remember, I'm stoned and we're cool so be kind bro!haha
 

troutman

Seed Whore
What about everybody who was arrested for Cannabis?

It's not only blacks that were affected.

I don't think any Government in this Galaxy is going to accept any wrongdoings.
 

oldchuck

Active member
Veteran
Resin- what are "pork chops." as in your post. I got to say I admire the quality, if not your train of thought, in your typing considering you are so massively stoned.
 

Badfishy1

Active member
Come on gyps
I r8 0/8 b8 m8

Of all possible threads you bring the race bait?

But I'll bite...
I think this problem has more to do with the industrial prison system. I don't think it is an actual RACE issue. The issue as resin pointed out is low vs high income. You have to realize the prison INDUSTRY is a for profit venture. Unfortunately, the unwilling 'customers' are the 'criminals'. The industry does not target (typically) the higher income 'customers' because they lawyer up, cut a deal for probation maybe a couple months and are out the door. The TARGET customers are the ones they know cannot afford to buy their way out of the system. White black Asian Hispanic, it doesn't matter. If you are low income you are the perfect customer. Hence why you see more patrols in low income areas. Same reason the Rolex billboards aren't seen in the housing projects... wrong target customer
 
Last edited:

resin_lung

I cough up honey oil
Veteran
Resin- what are "pork chops." as in your post. I got to say I admire the quality, if not your train of thought, in your typing considering you are so massively stoned.

Thanks man! It's a 100% body stone!haha

(Whisper) truth is.... (looks both ways) I'm not THAT stoned. It's a tactic I've been using to keep everyone semi nice to me!haha

By "pork chop" I mean police officers. Any pork product would work really.lol
 

resin_lung

I cough up honey oil
Veteran
What about everybody who was arrested for Cannabis?

It's not only blacks that were affected.

I don't think any Government in this Galaxy is going to accept any wrongdoings.

I agree 100% with everything you posted troutman. I was just pointing out that there has been a disproportionate amount of minorities affected because of the reasons I listed above.

Actually not sure if your post was directed to me.lol
 
M

moose eater

Except it's NOT simply a matter of who has the $ for quality legal defense work, as some have implied or stated. It goes directly to who is tagged, and why.

The cops in NYC who were caught by their own dash cams 6-7 years ago (idiots who prove you don't have to be smart to be a cop) were dropping coke on those they'd stop ('flaking') primarily targeting young, predominantly Black men (and some Latinos).

The frequency of the use of 'stop and frisk' by that same department, wherein the majority of those shaken down (illegally) were Black or Latino.

The racist aspect isn't limited to who has good representation; it has to do with an attitude re. -who- is targeted or viewed as inherently guilty or expendable, even when that belief is less than fully conscious and far from valid.

As I wrote earlier, Alaska victimizes Native/First Nations folks in a similar manner. A friend of mine is Japanese, coming to Alaska from Japan with his mother when he was 5 years old. but to the undiscerning eye, he -might- appear to be Native Alaskan. He can tell you about being followed through grocery stores and convenience stores on a regular basis from early childhood and on, by clerks who apparently believed he was a thief.. because he looked Native, and their belief that Natives are thieves.

ALL of this affects how this stuff works, and the War On (Some) Drugs has been used selectively for going on 100 years to target (predominantly) those whom the system in power wishes to target; "Marijuana will make (Black men) want to rape White women." (end quote)

That's not about who can afford a Dershowitz defense and who gets a Public Defender; that's about who gets snagged in the first place, and who gets looked past. And -that's- often very often about race. The numbers are what they are, whether arrests, plea bargains, length of sentencing, etc..
 

resin_lung

I cough up honey oil
Veteran
Except it's NOT simply a matter of who has the $ for quality legal defense work, as some have implied or stated. It goes directly to who is tagged, and why.

The cops in NYC who were caught by their own dash cams 6-7 years ago (idiots who prove you don't have to be smart to be a cop) were dropping coke on those they'd stop ('flaking') primarily targeting young, predominantly Black men (and some Latinos).

The frequency of the use of 'stop and frisk' by that same department, wherein the majority of those shaken down (illegally) were Black or Latino.

The racist aspect isn't limited to who has good representation; it has to do with an attitude re. -who- is targeted or viewed as inherently guilty or expendable, even when that belief is less than fully conscious and far from valid.

As I wrote earlier, Alaska victimizes Native/First Nations folks in a similar manner. A friend of mine is Japanese, coming to Alaska from Japan with his mother when he was 5 years old. but to the undiscerning eye, he -might- appear to be Native Alaskan. He can tell you about being followed through grocery stores and convenience stores on a regular basis from early childhood and on, by clerks who apparently believed he was a thief.. because he looked Native, and their belief that Natives are thieves.

ALL of this affects how this stuff works, and the War On (Some) Drugs has been used selectively for going on 100 years to target (predominantly) those whom the system in power wishes to target; "Marijuana will make (Black men) want to rape White women." (end quote)

That's not about who can afford a Dershowitz defense and who gets a Public Defender; that's about who gets snagged in the first place, and who gets looked past. And -that's- often very often about race. The numbers are what they are, whether arrests, plea bargains, length of sentencing, etc..

I agree that what you say has a very real place in the disscussion. I personally feel that there exists in law enforcement a desire to get certain people into the system. It's no secret that there are far longer lasting consequences than incarceration. Losing the rite to vote and own firearms are just the two most obvious.

It's hard enough to get people to have a conversation like this without getting into making blanket statements about any one race against another when there's nothing solid I can point to that would support my beliefs.

Law enforcement and the machine that it supports is just easier to get people to agree on as greed knows no bounds.

Yeah... I think there's more to it than the things I listed earlier but....baby steps.

I have zero issues with talking about race. To me there's no such thing as race bait! Just a fkn great topic we should all engage in as often as possible. Not to place blame or judge or forgive or accuse......not that you are looking to do that

But I don't care about any of that shit. I ain't white and I ain't black. I'm right in the fkn middle! My parents were immagrants from Mexico but pops is far from an Aztec!haha never seen any wall carvings that had more hair on their face and back than a fkn squatch!haha

Moms a different story. Zero hair on her back. Maybe the tiniest little stash!haha definately no beard!haha jk(I don't think she'd find that funny! FORGIVE ME MAMA!!!)

But I digress..... I don't have any guilt and I'm not sure how bad I got fucked! I'm both the conqueror and the conquered. I have no problem appreciating both. Because I can walk between worlds I've witnessed both the best and worst. It is what it is. I wish people could see it through my eyes as they'd know it's ok to let it go without pretending it doesn't exist! If that makes any sense.lol

I agree though.....the ablilty to defend themselves in court isn't the only reason.
 
Last edited:
M

moose eater

I agree with most, if not all of what you said, resin. I don't think I suffer from 'white liberal guilt,' either. Though I'm a very White Alaskan male. (the 21' 50" of Sunshine on June 21 doesn't make up enough for the other half of the year when sunshine is more rare, thus my tan -begins- to set in about the first or middle of July, -if- I've gone outside and worked enough for a farmer's tan. When I go to the hot springs, I probably resemble a more subtley colored zebra. ;^>)

My reply wasn't specifically directed at you, btw, but at others more vociferous re. denying the role that race has played in all of this.

If I believe, consciously or otherwise, that persons with 'X' attributes are more criminally minded than persons with 'Y' or 'Z' attributes, then I'm more apt to follow my sense of things, and keep a closer eye on persons with 'X' attribute.

Given that persons grouped to represent nearly any attributes, as larger groups, engage in behaviors that can bring law enforcement action against them, it stands to reason that if I follow the group I personally believe to be more criminally minded, I WILL find criminals among them, and it will become a self-affirming loop, even though, as is the case with drug use, Blacks and Caucasians use illegal drugs at about the same rate per capita; about 12%. 'X' % of each group likely engages in theft, fraud, etc., etc. as well, with some possible variances as to frequency. But when it came to large-scale importation of coca, I'd wager several Benjamins that the movers and shakers were mighty White, and perhaps some of them brown. And few to none of them were from the barrio or Black Harlem. Names like DeLorean come to mind. ;^>)

I come from some blatantly racist, predominantly Irish Hoosiers. People, who, as Irish who came to this Country in the early 1700s, -should- have known the wrongs and hardships associated with being in a group that is looked down on. Some of my early ancestors changed their names to sound 'less irish,' etc.

As a youth, with a mouth and poor self-discipline where it concerned tyrants, I confronted abuse of authority during one memorable bust, after everyone was waiting at the police station. I was taken into a sound-proof interrogation room and threatened, by a short-squat detective who knew what I knew; his 'boys in blue had fucked up badly in that bust, and we were all going to walk as long as everyone knew the rules to getting that done.

My color had little to do with the threats delivered therein, but I'd bet that if I'd been Black or Brown, or even Yellow-skinned, the pointed threatening finger and warnings of what was about to happen to me would have gone further toward those threats becoming a reality.

For me, if I were running a legal cannabis business, and I was able to contribute to a fund to afford reparations to ANYONE harmed by the outrageous crimes delivered by the War On (Some) Drugs, and especially if it would lessen my gross income, thus lessen my tax burden, I'd do it in a heart-beat.

But I don't think that's what folks are bristling about here.
 

resin_lung

I cough up honey oil
Veteran
Come on gyps
I r8 0/8 b8 m8

Of all possible threads you bring the race bait?

But I'll bite...
I think this problem has more to do with the industrial prison system. I don't think it is an actual RACE issue. The issue as resin pointed out is low vs high income. You have to realize the prison INDUSTRY is a for profit venture. Unfortunately, the unwilling 'customers' are the 'criminals'. The industry does not target (typically) the higher income 'customers' because they lawyer up, cut a deal for probation maybe a couple months and are out the door. The TARGET customers are the ones they know cannot afford to buy their way out of the system. White black Asian Hispanic, it doesn't matter. If you are low income you are the perfect customer. Hence why you see more patrols in low income areas. Same reason the Rolex billboards aren't seen in the housing projects... wrong target customer

I was talking to one of my friends, not too long ago, that had some prob with the whole "BLM" thing. He, like a lot of people I know is a good person but maybe a little less.....smart. He couldn't help but hear something that DIDNT include him. Upset as if it was meant to mean that his life was worth less because he wasnt Black. Now I don't know if it's evolved into something else but back then I was quick to inform him that I believed that they were talking about US! People who get approached with pistols drawn and aimed right the fuk at us for standing in his front yard.I was like it should stand for "Broke (ass mthrfkrs that live in shitty neighborhoods) lives matter" cause motherfucker...... their talking about you!

I'm just there for the action!haha
 

resin_lung

I cough up honey oil
Veteran
Its a fkn tough subject, not the issues dealing with race but the whole "knowing the job was dangerous when you took it" part.

Anybody else remember Super Chicken?

https://youtu.be/FKss2pBYQ6Y

The game. I was out there hustling. I was able to..... I risked so much so often it got hard to even weigh the shit out! I'm not sure I even ever could! Which leaves me with luck, but nobody's this fkn lucky!lol

So why didn't I get yanked?

And on the other hand..... its definitely some bullshit!lol
 

DocTim420

The Doctor is OUT and has moved on...
In my prior life, I took lots of chances (illegal activities) to make a buck and I saw a simple "cause and effect": people that did stupid things usually got busted. The crowd/gang/posse I was with during this time looked more like a UN delegation than a white privilege convention...and those that were smart did OK; it was those that did silly ass shit that lost their freedom (period).

Another observation I made was: those that continuously did stupid shit (believing they're invincible) always blamed others for being busted--never their stupidity. Then of course they always forgot Rule #1: You have the right to remain silent. Stupid is...stupid does and they always ended up telling LEO more than they originally knew.

That said, when one is processed in Cali prisons, inmates are sorted by race--not by intelligence. So, my theory is: stupid people get caught more than "smart" people and once incarcerated their "individualism" is forfeited and replaced with "tribalism"--where everything is viewed through the prism of "race".

And yes, justice in America is a function of one's wealth/income...it has always been that way and I doubt it will ever change. IMO, to say/believe otherwise is to ignore our current reality in USA.
 
Last edited:

Latest posts

Latest posts

Top