The Compound...

Ichabod Crane said:

Another thing to do is shape the surface of the top of your pot. It should be higher around the out side of the pot and around the stem. Then have a ditch that rings around the pot between the two higher areas. This will keep your watering from getting to much by the main stem and also stop the watering from running over the sides and down the side of your pots and being wasted.

You can shape your media surface in your pots when they are tilted towards the light also.

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Hey Ichy,

Thanks for stopping by the thread. I appreciate the advice and please feel free to add anything you see fit... I have read your grow threads thoroughly, and have tons of respect for your skills. So welcome! I was thinking of some sort of stem barrier, but hadn't thought of using the coco. Are you guys with hgo on the thin layer of ton bottom and top as well? I have a 50 liter bag here since I was going to use it... Do you think a top layer would protect against the ra, or give them a place to hide?

Swap

swapmeet said:

Hey Ichy,

Thanks for stopping by the thread. I appreciate the advice and please feel free to add anything you see fit... I have read your grow threads thoroughly, and have tons of respect for your skills. So welcome! I was thinking of some sort of stem barrier, but hadn't thought of using the coco. Are you guys with hgo on the thin layer of ton bottom and top as well? I have a 50 liter bag here since I was going to use it... Do you think a top layer would protect against the ra, or give them a place to hide?

Swap

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I dont use anything at the bottom. I figure it is taking away from my media. The media holds the nutes and water for the plant. Hydroton helps drain the pot and since I dont let the pot sit in water I am not worried about it. But I have not used it so this is just speculation on my part.

As for the surface I will top dress with NAPA floor dry some times. It will kill good and bad insects on the surface. But it is not what you will use to surface the top of your pot. It will just let the water flow threw it. So texture the surface with the coco and cover with the floor dry.

Some of the other benefits of the floor dry are that it acts as a indicator of when your pot is to dry or still moist. It does this by color change. When it is dry it is white and when it is wet it is tan. It is a good way to tell if you are over watering when they are little.

Another thing is that the floor dry acts as a mulch and slows down how fast the pot will dry from the top. This helps with the pot getting nute build up on the surface. This happens when the pot drys out to much on the top and the nutrients crystalize. This is bad because it makes the surface acidic.

Additionally the floor dry will lock onto nutes and bacteria. It is very porous and these will get trapped in the holes. The plants just love the floor dry. It is not uncommon to have more roots in the floor dry that the coco below if you get your watering right.

Just be careful and dont breath the dust as it is very bad for you. So when you get a bag poke some holes in it and drop it into a tote of water to control the dust. Then just lift it up and down a few times and the dust will run out into the tote.

Anyway that is what I use on the top instead of the Hydroton.

There`s my Damn Yankee.....Love me some Ickster…..It`s all those little things that make or break yas with dialage…..I told you he`d come out when it started snowin…… …….now.....

HGO `s in the UK like Heath and the standard of the hydro industry over there is the lil clay balls.....then coco came into play and they don`t know about or rather choose to utilize Perlite , Napa 8822 floor dry , or diatomaceous earth as top dressing for bug barriers or for extra drainage in the bottoms of containers.....that said.....

I never worried about rootborn critters from bein taught forever ago to use 5ml per gal of SM-90 that also acts as a surfactant so when your feed pumps kick on , the juice actually soaks down into the medium instead of runnin off due to surface tension , but again.....it`s the lil things.....right Icky ?.....also.....

Icky`s dead on about the fabric bags as well with coco Bro , as insurance against the dreaded root critters , but I`ve got big enough shoulders to handle the bullshit if anyone says somethin , but hang as many damn Hot Shot NPS/No Pest Strips in each small area that`s set up with coco stayin moist if not usin SM -90 , and I assure all here there`ll be no spider mites , fungus gnats , root aphids , etc., etc...…

I always left em in for a week just for insurance regardless of never havin a problem , then pulled and put in Ziploc bags to the fridge for future use cuz they last for months if stored properly , and I never saw anybody glow in the dark or cough up blood from smokin my dope.....IOW....there`s worse things ta worry bout in this `ol world than a damn pest strip with a half life of a couple weeks if that when only used for as long as it takes ta drop the lil bastards if you fucked up in the first place ta have em…..so.....moving on.....and since....

You`re bound and determined to try the racks , but wanna use premade stuff that`s not angled for the plants to sit down in , plus veg vertical ?....All returns on investment will be contingent on what you make out of said setup , and everything you do differently affects the bottom line.....so here`s where we`re at.....

I can only testify to what my #5 smartpots filled maybe 2/3`s fed once a day to insure they`d have enough moisture left if things went sideways God forbid till I got back to em every weekend.....That`s the ONLY reason I used that size container , cuz I assure you , that although the roots filled the bag , the result was only for a 1.5 oz. plant , just times 64.....and again.....
I suggest you try coco and dial it before goin crazy on vertical racks....I`ve tried to make you see that just the loopfield manifold to run around the room on 4 levels with control valves on each level so as to deal with pump head pressure and have runoff drain in 2 corners down a pvc drainpipe every feed sequence in angled racks covered in pondliner is not an easy accomplishment if you`re not well versed at DIY shit but believe me....I`m not trying to discourage you , it`s just there`s easier ways to do what you want while dialin a separate room if you wanna chase the GPW`s and play with the racks as an experiment instead of a production vehicle without being dialed.......anyways.....

Gotta go socialize with my son....They just got done takin my boat out ....Here ta help.....and....

Peace.....DHF..... ........

I dont read threw as many threads and posts as I use to. Just dont have as much time as before. But I still help when I can.

And DHF I thought about doing a new vert thread with LEDs. I just know it is quite a commitment and I dont want to leave it half done or not explain as much as I should so others can replicate it.

There`s my Damn Yankee.....Love me some Ickster…..It`s all those little things that make or break yas with dialage…..I told you he`d come out when it started snowin…… …….now.....

DunHav`nFun said:

HGO `s in the UK like Heath and the standard of the hydro industry over there is the lil clay balls.....then coco came into play and they don`t know about or rather choose to utilize Perlite , Napa 8822 floor dry , or diatomaceous earth as top dressing for bug barriers or for extra drainage in the bottoms of containers...

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Does this mean that I can use perlite, which I have access to instead of the NAPA floor dry? I ask because I have easy, efficient access to perlite... NAPA would cost an arm and a leg (at least an arm and a toe) to get here. If so, is that just a thin layer on top and on bottom, sat 1/2"-1" of perlite?

DunHav`nFun said:

I never worried about rootborn critters from bein taught forever ago to use 5ml per gal of SM-90 that also acts as a surfactant so when your feed pumps kick on , the juice actually soaks down into the medium instead of runnin off due to surface tension , but again.....it`s the lil things.....right Icky ?

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.....also.....

Unfortunately, they discontinued the sale of SM-90 out here, so I cannot get any... I have read in the past that you suggested to pre-treat with sm-90 and add that and drip clean to the res...I have people all over that would be happy to help me acquire it... Do you know where they still sell it?

DunHav`nFun said:

Icky`s dead on about the fabric bags as well with coco Bro , as insurance against the dreaded root critters , but I`ve got big enough shoulders to handle the bullshit if anyone says somethin , but hang as many damn Hot Shot NPS/No Pest Strips in each small area that`s set up with coco stayin moist if not usin SM -90 , and I assure all here there`ll be no spider mites , fungus gnats , root aphids , etc., etc...…

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I've written this in my notes.... so duly noted, literally. Will this make the idea about the aerated plastic square pots feasible? Again, those are readily available here, fabric bags, not as much. But I will get them if need be.

I always left em in for a week just for insurance regardless of never havin a problem , then pulled and put in Ziploc bags to the fridge for future use cuz they last for months if stored properly , and I never saw anybody glow in the dark or cough up blood from smokin my dope.....IOW....there`s worse things ta worry bout in this `ol world than a damn pest strip with a half life of a couple weeks if that when only used for as long as it takes ta drop the lil bastards if you fucked up in the first place ta have em…..so.....moving on.....and since....

DunHav`nFun said:

You`re bound and determined to try the racks , but wanna use premade stuff that`s not angled for the plants to sit down in , plus veg vertical ?....All returns on investment will be contingent on what you make out of said setup , and everything you do differently affects the bottom line.....so here`s where we`re at.....

Click to expand...

I am not dead set on vegging vertical. I was just throwing that out as an option because I figured it would help shape them for the racks... I have the two 9 bulb floro fixtures and can easily veg under them...if that is what you suggest, that is what I will do. As for the DIY skills and pre-made racks, I say this: My DIY skills are good, but my design skills are shit.... So I was thinking about getting some prefab racks, then customizing them from there up to par for what we need. It sounds like I want the bags to sit down and point up and out of their little cubby at a 45 degree angle +/- ...
At the end of the day, I am going to do whatever you suggest. I would like to do that by tweaking/adjusting the things I heave readily and efficiently available to me. I'll give you a much more detailed idea of everything over pm....once I can send one. Hahaha after 10+ years of membership, I cannot even send a PM

DunHav`nFun said:

I can only testify to what my #5 smartpots filled maybe 2/3`s fed once a day to insure they`d have enough moisture left if things went sideways God forbid till I got back to em every weekend.....That`s the ONLY reason I used that size container , cuz I assure you , that although the roots filled the bag , the result was only for a 1.5 oz. plant , just times 64.....

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I understand. So since I will be there mostly everyday, and able to monitor them when I am not there, I can use much smaller grow bags.... in order to get that 1.5oz +/- harvey per bag, with multiple waterings per day, what size bags do you think I should use?

DunHav`nFun said:

and again.....
I suggest you try coco and dial it before goin crazy on vertical racks....I`ve tried to make you see that just the loopfield manifold to run around the room on 4 levels with control valves on each level so as to deal with pump head pressure and have runoff drain in 2 corners down a pvc drainpipe every feed sequence in angled racks covered in pondliner is not an easy accomplishment if you`re not well versed at DIY shit but believe me....I`m not trying to discourage you , it`s just there`s easier ways to do what you want while dialin a separate room if you wanna chase the GPW`s and play with the racks as an experiment instead of a production vehicle without being dialed.......anyways.....

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Duly noted again Fred, thank you. I appreciate you. As for my DIY game....it is solid. If I understand the design, I can build it. I've helped build a couple houses bottom, up... I built a secret room with a hidden door in my first home, years ago (i think under my last handle on this site back in '06)....if I understand the design, I can build it...anything pvc, babyshit. I am just not all that good at designing things I don't fully understand.

As for going crazy on the racks before I dial the coco... I won't. It will be something I grow into over several runs, mainly because I am growing mothers from seed, so it will take a couple runs just to get the cuts necessary to fill the racks. And I take your point about the laterals/suckers being all the clones I need... that checks out.... (it makes sense)... after a while the mother plants just take up too much space... I will want to keep a few good ones around to preserve the strains that have the attributes I want and are not in one of the rack systems... but other than that, its the laterals and sucker clones ftw...


I really appreciate your insight and direction. Let's get dialed.

Thank you,

Swap


Gotta go socialize with my son....They just got done takin my boat out ....Here ta help.....and....

Peace.....DHF..... ........

You can leave the pots flat. To do this you just put the clone in at a 45 degree angle so the plant points out and not the pot.

Ichabod Crane said:

You can leave the pots flat. To do this you just put the clone in at a 45 degree angle so the plant points out and not the pot.

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Right on, the old "plant the clone crooked" trick lol... thanks for your insight bro...I thought it might have to do with some sort of drainage thing rather than actual clone angle...

Swap

Ichy in here... prepare to learn a lot! Good luck sir, excited to see what ladies you pull

Badfishy1 said:

Ichy in here... prepare to learn a lot! Good luck sir, excited to see what ladies you pull

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It is nice that you feel that way. But I learned everything I know here on this site. From people like DHF, Marlo, Aero, Bobblehead, and many others.

I just put it together in a different way than them.

Ichabod Crane said:

It is nice that you feel that way. But I learned everything I know here on this site. From people like DHF, Marlo, Aero, Bobblehead, and many others.

I just put it together in a different way than them.

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It is a village, no doubt...but it helps to have the experienced ones like you and all those mentioned...and more...

Can anyone enlighten me on this album picture limit thing? Do I just have to host my pics elsewhere or what?

Swap

I think it is based on number of post and rep. But you shouldnt have to. I still have over 1800 I can post.

Ichabod Crane said:

I think it is based on number of post and rep. But you shouldnt have to. I still have over 1800 I can post.

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I see... Thanks...I will try and improve my rep lol...

Swap

Whatever it was seemed to be solved by passing that magical 50th post...I can pm now, probably edit my posts.... a whole new world has opened up lol

Swap

ps... Original Glue #1 leading the pack..

I can get these 1 gallon fabric grow bags for about $2 each... I can also get them in 2 gallon and 3 gallon...

I`ll get back atcha tomorrow bro.....Warmed up today and been runnin the boy and his gf around on the boat , gotta take em to the shrimp docks and send em home with some of those monsters I grilled the other night , and gonna grill up some more shit here in a lil while before they go back to the farm tomorrow.....anyways.....

The smaller the size container you use the more feeds per day it requires to keep coco "moist" , never wet....but never dry...."moist"....But HGO pulled 8 oz Chem D plants outta 1.6 gal bags I think , whatever the fuck that Euro size shit is , but that`s small.....lol.......aight.....later....

Peace.....DHF..... …..

I can get 14 to 16 ounces out of a 4 gallon square pot. Watered once a day with about 1.25 gallons. But that is pushing it. It really should be watered twice a day at that size. I start to get the claw at about 5 or 6 weeks into flower because they are drinking it dry and making it acidic.

Swapmeet, awesome to see a good ol' vert thread. Ichy, and DHF were integral in getting me to ditch the reflector years back. I see some serious dank in your future.

I look forward to the process and progression.

star crash said:

I don't get the physics on how so little coco can grow so much dank .. but i want too!

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If you really want to know the science behind coco, here is a good thread on the subject: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=307683

Otherwise, understand that it acts like a hydro medium in a lot of ways... That said, in my ebb and grow days, I would pull several zips per plant in those little 2.5s they use, in hydroton. and think of coco that way...

Swap

So if I use fabric grow bags, say 1/2 gallon to transplant the clear cups into to veg/develop roots for a couple weeks.... could I transplant the entire bag into the 1g or 2g pots to flower in, or is it better to remove them from the first grow bag? I am just shooting for 2 zips per plant, at least 1... It seems doable in 1 gal grow bags if I water several times per day lights on...

Swap