Oxygen (O2, DO) is a vital elementary element for DWC hydroponic pot grows

JohnM · Feb 27, 2017

Everything fails in the hydroponic pot growing world if the dissolved oxygen is too low. Of course the O2 gas must be dissolved in res water and if there is not enough dissolved available continuously 24/7, roots die, Bennies die decay sets in the fungal outbreak invade tour and eat well.
Air is always called oxygen and visa-versa, but air is a mixture of elemental gases. Aerobic plant roots and Bennies don’t need nor do they consume Nitrogen and air is 80% elemental Nitrogen gas.
So does somebody, anybody have a clue what the “safe DO range” is for any hydroponic pot grow? Like actually measured with a DO Meter. You know like actually measuring pH is commonly tested with a meter of chemical test or testing res water temp and air temp with a thermometer or humidity with a hygrometer.

Douglas.Curtis · Feb 27, 2017

No, currently these charts/numbers do not exist. At least not as far as the general cannabis community is aware of. *cue slew of posts which do not contain numbers or links to studies on cannabis and exact DO levels*

cravin morehead · Feb 27, 2017

try reading BigToke's basic water chemistry sticky. he has done a ton of research and stated : " Measure oxygen and make sure it stays in the aerobic range, which is typically above 6 mg/l oxygen. " take it or leave it, but everything else I've read of his is exactly spot on correct. one of the great minds here on icmag. tons upon tons of hydroponic knowledge in his posts

cm

chris harris · Feb 27, 2017

Douglas.Curtis said:
No, currently these charts/numbers do not exist. At least not as far as the general cannabis community is aware of. *cue slew of posts which do not contain numbers or links to studies on cannabis and exact DO levels*

Lol, how true. Here's a quote from you...

I've been researching cannabis cultivation for 15 years, I don't post about things I don't know much about. Your turn... LINKS

edit: Wow, my diplomacy is pretty dang bad the last few days. My apologies. I don't catalog links, I simply read the studies and move on. Hope your research goes well.

Douglas.Curtis · Feb 27, 2017

Reading comprehension is low, especially on the internet.

They asked for "Cannabis" related studies.

JohnM said:
So does somebody, anybody have a clue what the “safe DO range” is for any hydroponic pot grow? Like actually measured with a DO Meter.

chris harris · Feb 27, 2017

LOL. Yes, us internet reading challenged fools. Silly me, not knowing that cannabis has it's own requirement for DO levels relative to all other plants. I'll just crawl under my rock, and bask in all the knowledge you provide, without any credible references, other than your 15 years experience. :tiphat:

Douglas.Curtis · Feb 27, 2017

chris harris said:
LOL. Yes, us internet reading challenged fools. Silly me, not knowing that cannabis has it's own requirement for DO levels relative to all other plants.

They asked specifically about cannabis. There are already a number of threads they've begun which have dissolved into childish taunts and multiple postings of useless dialogue.

I was being quite specific, in the hopes of preventing yet another thread of the same ilk. Thanks for dropping by. :tiphat:

chris harris · Feb 27, 2017

I fail to see the difference if it is cannabis, or not. All plants benefit from increased DO levels, so what is grown in the system is irrelevant.
But carry on, I'm done here.

JohnM · Feb 27, 2017

cravin morehead said:
try reading BigToke's basic water chemistry sticky. he has done a ton of research and stated : " Measure oxygen and make sure it stays in the aerobic range, which is typically above 6 mg/l oxygen. " take it or leave it, but everything else I've read of his is exactly spot on correct. one of the great minds here on icmag. tons upon tons of hydroponic knowledge in his posts

cm

Enjoyed reading Big Toke's piece on water chemistry, thanks a lot. I believe my DO questions maybe best directed to Big Toke, is he still active on this forum?

cravin morehead · Feb 27, 2017

JohnM said:
Enjoyed reading Big Toke's piece on water chemistry, thanks a lot. I believe my DO questions maybe best directed to Big Toke, is he still active on this forum?

Bigtoke hasn't been around for years. too bad. I wish him well where ever he may be.
but, ya, there is a ton of good info in his threads. I am a bio-bucket grower for my main grows and I Frickin love them. but the knowledge he laid out pertains to all hydro techniques and ex plains tons. I especially liked to learn about nutes solution maintenance and economy. very helpful to me. I recommend reading his stuff to damn near all hydro growers, newb or vet

cm

JohnM · Feb 28, 2017

cravin morehead said:
Bigtoke hasn't been around for years. too bad. cm

Sorry to hear Big Tote’s gone, would have loved to talk with him about this oxygenation matter.
Maintaining enough DO is absolutely essential to maintain healthy roots and beneficial microbes according to Big Toke’s water chemistry.

*Any thoughts about maintaining res water temp and air temp @ 78F, DO concentration @ 12 PPM DO 24/7 throughout months of the growing season through harvest? This DO insures optimal oxygenation continuously in the res water and absolutely no chance of any low oxygen events negatively affecting the health of all the plant roots and beneficial microbes and discourage fungal outbreaks and infestations.
Regardless of the combined collective biological oxygen demand required for healthy metabolism of all the plants, roots and beneficial microbial colonies, there would always be 12 PPM DO throughout the res system available continuously to the harvest.

cravin morehead · Feb 28, 2017

Sounds good to me. Reminds me of something I thought about before. I thought about using a Do meter tied to an adjustable venturi. My thoughts were that I'd be able to keep a steady DO level or increase or decrease DO levels as I felt necessary. But after a few grows in my bio bucket set up, I realized that it wasn't necessary. My system is producing extremely well. Don't fix what ain't broke kind of. It was interesting to see DO levels changed with increasing or decreasing the water flow in my system. I think that was from increased water volume in the waterfall. Take it for what it is, just my thoughts and experiences. here's a pic of the roots I'm getting:

Cm

JohnM · Feb 28, 2017

cravin morehead said:
I thought about using a Do meter tied to an adjustable venturi. My thoughts were that I'd be able to keep a steady DO level or increase or decrease DO levels as I felt necessary.
Cm

It’s sad but true that air is often a limiting factor if oxygenation is the point of the exercise whether it fish farming, bean farming or hydroponic pot farming. Dead and decaying roots and fungal infestations are often the results of root and microbial suffocation in water cultures.

But, you’re right… if it’s not broke and there no problems, it doesn’t need fix’in, leave it be… common since.

Regardless of the volume of air pumped, bubbled or entrained via a venture device, the oxygen concentration in that air is, limited and quiet low @ 20% and change). The concentration of oxygen in air is constant at sea level or @ 12,000 ft. elevation. The concentration of Nitrogen in air is substantial and constant too @ 79% or so.

Have you ever considered increasing the fractional concentration of oxygen in your res water to increase the DO and keep the water temp warm say 80F to increase root and microbial metabolism? The goal being maintaining and insuring DO Saturation between 100% - 105% continuously 27/7 throughout months of the growing season less the loss of DO consumed actually by the roots and microbe colonies collectively minute by minute 24/7?

The oxygenation goal is absolutely insuring no low O2 insults for roots and beneficial microbial colonies from transplanting through harvest.

More roots and more microbes always require more DO than less roots and fewer microbial colonies. The healthier the aerobes the faster and better they can absorb and metabolize other available nutrients available in the res water. Healthier plants and microbes insure optimal returns at harvest and a quicker grow-out time.

Your thoughts?

cravin morehead · Feb 28, 2017

I see what you are getting at. at a certain DO saturation level, extremely high, wouldn't that be crossing over into the realm of aeroponics in a way? aero with a side of bennies? you are correct given oxygen levels in the atmosphere are relatively low in concentration being a limiting factor of my type of system. I have no idea the effects of saturation levels like you describe on the bennies and the plants or the roots for that matter. I would follow along closely if you would care to do some experiments.

cm

JohnM · Feb 28, 2017

The effect is "prevention of low oxygen crisis." Optimal continuous safe oxygenation for plant and microbes 24/7 for months.

Ogtg2213 · Feb 28, 2017

At 68-70f your water will hold Between 8- 9ppm of DO, you won't get it any higher no matter what you do, it's physically impossible.
I'm my recirculating areo system the plants/ microorginisims only use about 1ppm of total dissolved oxygen when I test the return water. So I honestly believe as long as your at or above 7ppm you'll do just as good as my areo system.
Aerobic activity increases at alarming rates when you get the water temp above 72, partially because of the lowered dissolved oxygen but mostly because they thrive and multiply in warmer climates

cravin morehead · Feb 28, 2017

I've never had a low oxygen crisis in my systems. I couldn't imagine roots more healthy and plentiful than what I get with very little effort on my part. never had any, zero root pathogen issues in bio buckets built and run correctly. same thing with any system I designed or built for someone else...

cm

JohnM · Feb 28, 2017

Ogtg2213 said:
At 68-70f your water will hold Between 8- 9ppm of DO, you won't get it any higher no matter what you do, it's physically impossible.
I'm my recirculating areo system the plants/ microorginisims only use about 1ppm of total dissolved oxygen when I test the return water. So I honestly believe as long as your at or above 7ppm you'll do just as good as my areo system.
Aerobic activity increases at alarming rates when you get the water temp above 72, partially because of the lowered dissolved oxygen but mostly because they thrive and multiply in warmer climates

Sure you can increase the DO Concentration greater than 9 PPM in 68-70F water if you want to. Just increase the FIO2 in the air you are using, leave the other parameters the same. Nothing to it if you want more DO.
Are you familiar with the 9 DOT Puzzle? I learned it in a HS Chemistry class and still apply the principle every day… check it out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking_outside_the_box
Personally I prefer causing maximum metabolism for plant roots and microbes, like increasing rez water temp 10 degrees warmer like 80F. Plants and microbial colonies grow much faster, plants mature faster, more buds per season and so on.
>7 PPM DO sounds good to me provided you can maintained this continuously 24/7 for months to the harvest. DO testing lets you know if all is good and can detect low oxygen crisis way before fungal outbreaks occur. You test your DO and that’s impressive-Bravo! No surprises for you.
If your grow’s aerobic oxygen demand consumes 1 PPM DO per single water cycle at this stage of maturity and the plants and colonies continue grow, multiply and thrive… the aerobic demand will increase proportionally and the margin of safety (available DO) shrinks because ambient air provides no increase in oxygen. air is always limited by the Fractional Concentration of Oxygen (FIO2) at 1 ATM barometric pressure.
Insuring plenty oxygen is not about loading the rez water up with excessive DO. It’s about preventing a low DO crisis 24/7 for months. It’s about insuring the oxygen demand of mature roots balls and multi-microbial cultures is always met and the aerobes never-ever experience hypoxic insults for months.
Thanks for tuning in and participating.

Ogtg2213 · Feb 28, 2017

Fi02? Fraction of inspired oxygen? Im talking about normal grow room conditions, and even if you could inject pure oxygen the water won't hold it for any period of time

How would you propose getting the water to hold the oxygen your injecting?

JohnM · Feb 28, 2017

Ogtg2213 said:
Fi02? Fraction of inspired oxygen? Im talking about normal grow room conditions, and even if you could inject pure oxygen the water won't hold it for any period of time

How would you propose getting the water to hold the oxygen your injecting?

Fish Farmers increase the DO using numerous methods - http://pentairaes.com/learn-about-aquaculture/technical-talks/oxygenation-in-aquaculture

If you are not familiar with nano-bubbles or the application of nano-bubbles, you might get a jingle out of this: Oxygen and Air Nanobubble Water Solution Promote the Growth of Plants, Fishes, and Mice http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0065339
You can always Google nano-oxygen bubbles if seek more knowledge about them.

If you don't get a jingle about this nano-stuff (real tiny gas bubbles that are extremely stable in water), no foul, just disregard the piece above.

Don't you just love that 9 Dot Puzzle? I do.

Oxygen (O2, DO) is a vital elementary element for DWC hydroponic pot grows

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