Boron/boric acid and zinc trace element sources?

Bush Doctah · Apr 23, 2019

Greetings and salutations all!

I'm an (old) newbie prepping my first grow with some questions (as you'll see!).

First, what are people using as sources of, I believe it is, boric acid or just boron (found in Borax?), as well as zinc? What are the application rates per cubic foot of base mix?

For boron as Borax, I have found agricultural/lawn application rates (1 tbsp. / 100 sq. ft, 1 tbsp. / gallon water applied at 1 fluid ounce / plant) if less than 1 ppm in soil test. (Yes, I should get a soil test done, but it isn't in the budget just yet.) Any thoughts on/experience with application rates /cu.ft base mix? Maybe something like 1/4 tsp.? Would that be safe? Also, there seem to be plants that don't require it. Does our beloved herb even require it? I'm thinking yes on this.

As for zinc, that should be covered by kelp, no? Dr. Duke says so, but it gives zinc for fucus vesiculosus (bladderwrack/kelp) not for our preferred ascophyllum nodosum. Dr. Duke draws a blank on ascophyllum nodosum.

Apologies if I have missed this info somewhere here in ICmag World. I try to do my research before asking, and I hope that my questions can be of help to others!

BD

"Equal rights and justice, or there will be no Peace!"

(Peter Tosh: the true Bush Doctor. I am but a pale imitation trying to live his spirit.)

h.h. · Apr 23, 2019

In the southwestern USA, I never worried about boron.

Rico Swazi · Apr 23, 2019

We might worry about volcanoes in the PNW but never a worry over boron for the same reason

Borax is sodium borate and its the sodium that may cause you troubles later. (or maybe not, too many variables)
the right kind of light and porous scoria/pumice pounded into powder (think basalt rock dusts) would work in its place,

Welcome to the forum BD :tiphat:

troutman · Apr 23, 2019

Cardboard is rich in boron. Shred some up and compost it into your soil maybe.

h.h. · Apr 24, 2019

For zinc, I've known folks to bury zinc coated washers. Claimed it worked. The results I saw seemed to backed up their claims.

I use a little Espoma to cover my bases. I don't see the yellow top.

troutman · Apr 24, 2019

Galvanized nails are covered with zinc. They'll also provide iron when they rust. :tiphat:

Bush Doctah · Apr 24, 2019

Thanks for the feedback, and thanks for the welcome Rico Swazi.
Rico, your suggestion of basalt will solve my problem, thanks. I will be using 2 types of basalt in my mix (one called huplaso) as well as GRD, wollastonite, and yoorin (and maybe a bit of andesite too). That should cover it. I'm not going to add any Borax since the window of deficiency to toxicity can be as narrow as < 0.15 to >

.50 to 1 ppm apparently. That's way too fine for a newb like me!
Thanks also troutman for the suggestion of cardboard in my compost. I make my own, so I will add a little to my batch this year. Might try the galvanized nails in there too for some zinc. I top dress using fresh dynamic accumulators including comfrey, which I read today has trace amounts in it. So, that's covered too.

Again, thanks to all for all your feedback!

BD

Lyfespan · Apr 24, 2019

gypsum baby

MJPassion · Apr 25, 2019

gypsum will supply none of what is being asked for.

Gypsum is calcium sulphate.

h.h. · Apr 25, 2019

Not so fast
https://www.spectrumanalytic.com/support/library/rf/Gypsum.htm

Lyfespan · Apr 25, 2019

h.h. said:
Not so fast
https://www.spectrumanalytic.com/support/library/rf/Gypsum.htm

thank you HH.
lol, so quick to judge :biggrin:

, but yes gypsum DOES supplies all that and more, doesn't it lol

its what it makes available too :tiphat:

gypsum is an organic soil gardeners best friend, this coupled along with HP can correct most issues pest or otherwise.

call it an equalizer if you will

h.h. · Apr 25, 2019

It hadn't dawned on me before.
Clicked in with your post.

When I thought about it, boron and gypsum are mined fairly close together, then it all kinda made sense. Theyre similiar materials and apt to be found together.
I just googled it.
Turns out wallboard has even more from the manufacturing process.

Bush Doctah · May 1, 2019

Thanks very much for the gypsum info Lyfespan and h.h..

The only thing that gave me pause were the actual levels of boron in the various forms. Other than the "cast" type, the levels seem really high, but experience says that this isn't a problem... it simply works. Another instance of how amazing organic methods are! Can't beat nature!

h.h. · May 1, 2019

Both boron and gypsum are from the results of evaporation.
They are both highly soluble and leachable. If you use fabric pots you can see where the gypsum has been filtered by the fabric. It builds up in the outer soil.
Boron washes out. Like Borax will wash out of your clothes.
I don't worry about it cause its in my water. Here in the states anyway, the USDA has it all mapped out.

Enough rambling.
Here's the good shit...
https://www.google.com/url?q=https:...FjADegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw1nDbMfdNiAU6F52J8MnEfV

h.h. · May 1, 2019

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://naldc.nal.usda.gov/download/IND43894780/PDF&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjnz_SpzPrhAhXLrlQKHXEuArUQFjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw2Mgx_qTu74Bbp7ZsYIWA1B
.
.
.
https://www.google.com/url?q=https:...FjAEegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw2JGTXSMhXpOwCWgjFJDSqI

Lyfespan · May 1, 2019

h.h. said:
It hadn't dawned on me before.
Clicked in with your post.

When I thought about it, boron and gypsum are mined fairly close together, then it all kinda made sense. Theyre similiar materials and apt to be found together.
I just googled it.
Turns out wallboard has even more from the manufacturing process.

cant let information like this go by the wayside, and be replaced with expensive crap chemicals.

the fact that most on here cant figure out a simple stratified soil to run plants in is baffling to say the least.

allowing the plant to make its own decisions, through stratified soil takes so many issues off the table. not having to think about PH, feeding and many other REACTIVE measures.

crop rotation and crop support are also thoughts of the past with cannabis. keep paying for import soils and additives though..

Bush Doctah · May 3, 2019

Thanks h.h. for the info. I didn't realize that boron is associated with so many aspects of plant growth and development. It was also interesting to see the wide variability of boron needs in plants. Wonder where cannabis falls along this spectrum? Probably high (no pun intended).
I apologize Lyfespan for being among those ignorant about soil stratification. If you have any info at hand that you could share, I'd be interested in seeing it.
Thanks again to both of you for taking the time to educate us.
BD

h.h. · May 3, 2019

http://www.cvwd.org/275/Soil-Stratification

wetdog · May 10, 2019

Bush Doctah said:
Thanks for the feedback, and thanks for the welcome Rico Swazi.
Rico, your suggestion of basalt will solve my problem, thanks. I will be using 2 types of basalt in my mix (one called huplaso) as well as GRD, wollastonite, and yoorin (and maybe a bit of andesite too). That should cover it. I'm not going to add any Borax since the window of deficiency to toxicity can be as narrow as < 0.15 to >

.50 to 1 ppm apparently. That's way too fine for a newb like me!
Thanks also troutman for the suggestion of cardboard in my compost. I make my own, so I will add a little to my batch this year. Might try the galvanized nails in there too for some zinc. I top dress using fresh dynamic accumulators including comfrey, which I read today has trace amounts in it. So, that's covered too.

Again, thanks to all for all your feedback!

BD

Kelp meal provides Boron as does comfrey.

Yeah, the amounts from deficiency to toxicity is way too fine to mess with borax and such. 1PPM is deficient, but 5PPM is knocking on toxic levels.

Wet

dank.frank · May 10, 2019

Solubor and zinc sulfate or zinc oxide.

dank.Frank

Boron/boric acid and zinc trace element sources?

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