Seedlings turning white

shartle · Dec 20, 2015

Hey everyone, hoping someone can help me figure out what's up with two of my seedlings. I've looked through all the diagnosis guides but haven't been able to pinpoint it since these plants are so young.

The one in the first picture is about two weeks old and the one in the second is about one week old. They are both in the same ~50/50 coir/perlite mix (the red cups have holes in the bottom, water comes right out). The first set of serrated leaves on both are starting to turn white. Before they were planted the coir was prewatered with a 1/4 strength solution of GH CocoTek Grow A+B nutes (bottles said regular strength was 5ml/gal, I used 1.25ml/gal). Other than that they've only received distilled water with a ph of ~6 when the tops are dry. I've made sure to dab any droplets of water that get on the leaves off with a paper towel.

They are about 15 inches under the LEDs. Temp is around 90F and the humidity in the tent is around 45% (cannot get it higher no matter what I do). They're on a 18/6 photoperiod. I'm really stumped as to what's happening to them. My last attempt at growing didn't go well so this time I've been looking things up for hours before I do anything.

Are these going to make it? What went wrong here?

shartle · Dec 20, 2015

Meant to say temp is around 80F, not 90.

Guest · Dec 20, 2015

I think you need to find some way to get the humidity up higher, 65- 70 %. Do not add nutes until later after your seedlings are established. Your seedlings look like nute burn. If you have more seeds, I would start them. I don't think these are gonna make it.

shartle · Dec 20, 2015

Ok, some guides I read said that they prewater since there's no nutes in coco, but it looks like even that's too much. Now I know. On the next try when should they get their first nutes? Should I wait for them to start turning yellow before dosing them?

Guest · Dec 20, 2015

All the food that's needed at this early stage is contained in the cotyledons, the small rounded leaves that pop out first. Your plants really shouldn't need any nutes until these first leaves start to turn yellow, then a diluted mix like like you described at first. After they have put down roots you can up the dose. Under good conditions, you probably shouldn't have even needed watering given the size they are now. You're at the most critical stage of the entire grow right now, so things have to be dialed in close for the seedlings to progress.

shartle · Dec 20, 2015

Got it, thanks for your help. I've only had to water them twice so far but I guess that prewatering doomed them - feel like a moron! Got some replacements germinating now. A few of my other seedlings are still nice and green so hopefully those fare better than their siblings.

dimebag_ · Dec 20, 2015

shartle said:
Hey everyone, hoping someone can help me figure out what's up with two of my seedlings. I've looked through all the diagnosis guides but haven't been able to pinpoint it since these plants are so young.

The one in the first picture is about two weeks old and the one in the second is about one week old. They are both in the same ~50/50 coir/perlite mix (the red cups have holes in the bottom, water comes right out). The first set of serrated leaves on both are starting to turn white. Before they were planted the coir was prewatered with a 1/4 strength solution of GH CocoTek Grow A+B nutes (bottles said regular strength was 5ml/gal, I used 1.25ml/gal). Other than that they've only received distilled water with a ph of ~6 when the tops are dry. I've made sure to dab any droplets of water that get on the leaves off with a paper towel.

They are about 15 inches under the LEDs. Temp is around 90F and the humidity in the tent is around 45% (cannot get it higher no matter what I do). They're on a 18/6 photoperiod. I'm really stumped as to what's happening to them. My last attempt at growing didn't go well so this time I've been looking things up for hours before I do anything.

Are these going to make it? What went wrong here?

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=64877&pictureid=1539182&thumb=1]View Image[/url] [URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=64877&pictureid=1539183&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

shartle-wassup man…dbag here. I mostly just run clones these days but I've popped quite a few seeds in my time. Here's my $.02.

First off-those little ones in the pics look like they're as good as dead unfortunately. Looks like you toasted them with nutes or heat, bud. If they make it, I'd be surprised but you never know-its possible. They don't need any nutes at first. They are not very established yet and cannot take it. Next time, just give them plain distilled water until they are quite a bit bigger. Also, in veg. they like it warm and humid.

You can even just water them with a spray bottle instead of watering the soil. Just keep the soil moist but not drenched. Wait until they get a couple sets of leaves and some roots goin. Then its ok to water them lightly and get them on some veg. nutes but at like 1/2 or 1/4 strength. But always water lightly, and not until the soil is almost dry. They grow faster when the medium is not fully saturated.

I also keep my new clones and seedlings on a 24 hour schedule when they are small and rooting. You can keep them on 24 all the way thru veg until flip if you like. But I switch them to 18/6 once they're under the hid's cuz there's some good stuff that goes on while they're sleeping. Plus at the is point they grow just as fast, if not faster on 18/6 vs. 24 hr. light.
Anyways-hope this helps and good luck with your grow-cheers

dbag-

Guest · Dec 20, 2015

Shartle,

I think this early seedling phase is probably the #1 fail point for most growers of the entire process. Just want be sure I'm clear on this point, the medium does need to be soaked with distilled water at the outset as you did with these, just not with nutes added. These 2 plants may can be saved if you just get the humidity up and let them use what's in the medium and slowly bring them back with distilled water.

Keif

shartle · Dec 20, 2015

Hey dbag, thanks for helping. Looks like I f'ed up with those prewatered nutes. Now I know it's better to skip that. At least I've got more seeds. This third attempt has got to work. Last attempt (my first grow) got decimated by fungus gnats that were apparently resistant to everything I threw at them. By the time I was able to get some pyrethrin (the only thing that seemed to work) they were too far gone.

shartle · Dec 20, 2015

Hey Keif, yep - water only from now on. I have a humidifier going and pans of water in the tent, air circulation down as much as I can without the tent roasting. Still can't get it above 45. Going to try some clear plastic wrap with holes poked in it and attached over the top of the cups.

Guest · Dec 20, 2015

shartle said:
Hey Keif, yep - water only from now on. I have a humidifier going and pans of water in the tent, air circulation down as much as I can without the tent roasting. Still can't get it above 45. Going to try some clear plastic wrap with holes poked in it and attached over the top of the cups.

Shartle,

I have a real struggle with keeping humidity up where I live and makes a bit of a challenge during early seedling stage. What I've found works is to place a quart bag over the top of my 18 oz solo cup for a few days until that first set of true leaves appear. Don't worry about punching holes for air, the plant is fine at this point without the extra air. You want to see condensation forming on the inside of the bag. This will get you past the early critical phase, but you will need to get that humidity up higher during veg cycle or other problems will develop.

dimebag_ · Dec 20, 2015

shartle said:
Hey Keif, yep - water only from now on. I have a humidifier going and pans of water in the tent, air circulation down as much as I can without the tent roasting. Still can't get it above 45. Going to try some clear plastic wrap with holes poked in it and attached over the top of the cups.

dude, I wouldn't put that plastic on them if I were you. Don't over think it. Seedlings grow pretty slow at first, so don't expect any crazy fast reactions to anything you're doing. Just let them recover if they're going to. When they have issues when they're that tiny, they usually don't recover tho. Its like wounding a baby.
I don't think humidity is that important for them at this point. They like high humidity, but they don't need it to survive like rooting clones. Maybe just pull them out of that tent and put them under some t-8's or t-5's somewhere else, or leave the tent doors open to get some fresh air in there. Blow on them every day to give them some co2 and continue to let the medium dry out and then just hit them with r/o water or distilled. In the mean time, sprout some new ones cuz I think you're gonna need them. Sounds like your tent needs an exhaust fan pulling out old air and bringing in fresh air as well? IDK

I forgot to mention before that Clonex works well once they get big enough, and you wanna start feeding them with a foliar spray. It has all the food they need, but is gentle on them. I spray my clones with it almost daily until they root. Doesn't burn them. good luck

db-

shartle · Dec 20, 2015

Yeah, it's winter here and the air is really dry. It tops out at 45 in my tent with a humidifier and a couple big pots of water under the lights. Problem is if I shut off my vent fan the temp shoots up to 90+. When they were germinating I had sandwich baggies over the cups but I took them off once they sprouted. They're back on now and I'll check the humidity in a bit. Have to brainstorm what to do once they're out of the cups. Humidity wasn't an issue earlier in the year but now that winter's here it just plummeted.

dimebag_ · Dec 20, 2015

shartle-if you want humidity, just go grab a little dome with a lid for $10 from your grow shop.Like the ones for clones. Little black tray with clear dome lid with adjustable air vents on top. Mondi makes a great one.

db-

shartle · Dec 20, 2015

Db - not expecting miracles at this point so I'm thinking of these as experiments for now. See if they come back and in the meantime get new ones started. I've got my tent door open, and one fan for intake at the bottom and one for exhaust at the top on the opposite side. Humidifier is blowing next to the intake.

shartle · Dec 20, 2015

dimebag_ said:
shartle-if you want humidity, just go grab a little dome with a lid for $10 from your grow shop.Like the ones for clones. Little black tray with clear dome lid with adjustable air vents on top. Mondi makes a great one.

db-

Haven't seen those before - will check them out if I can't get humidity up with stuff I have here. Thanks for all your advice guys.

Core · Dec 21, 2015

yeah seedlings are very sensetive and although i'm not a perlite grower i can say you have overdone it on feeding.
a seedling does not need more then 300 ppm's of feeding
and plain tapwater can be around 200 - 300 ppm's depending on where you are.

as coco and perlite do not have nutrient of themselfs you have to suppley them regularly
but in doses the plant actually can take.

and then you give destilled water which will drain the nutrients out of the pot and away from the plant roots leaving it without food.

so i think its a combination of these things that lead to this :cents:

TerpeneDream · Dec 21, 2015

I put seeds direct into 3 gallons of soil w/ lots of vermiculite for water retention. I only have to water every 4 days or so and I can grow a seedling for 3 weeks, perfectly green with no food at all. Try building a nicely amended soil and go from there..it makes everything way easier!

shartle · Dec 29, 2015

Hey everyone, well I have had new seeds going for about a week now. All the parameters from my first post are the same except: no nutrients at all have been given, and the humidity in these cups is up to around 60. The cups have stayed really moist, I haven't had to water since planting the seeds. I have the cups all mostly covered with a clear tray to keep the humidity up for the seedlings.

Problem is the same thing is happening. I attached a couple pictures of the new seedlings. I'm really at a loss this time. I thought maybe light bleaching but they're about 20 inches away from the LEDs and I have several bigger plants in the same tent, under the same lights (and closer) that show no signs of light or heat damage whatsoever. Again, no nutes at all, used brand new coir and perlite, only did one prewatering (the water this time was a little bit higher ph, around 6.2 - thought up to 6.5 was safe?) - and again, some of the other ones I planted at the same time look totally fine. Do I just have bad seeds? I'm getting sick of this.

shartle · Dec 29, 2015

Forgot to add - something weird about the one in the first pic is that the very tips of the leaves are still green. The white patches don't start on the tips, but rather just past them. Could this be some kind of nutrient deficiency (as in the seed and the cotyledons didn't have enough of something in them?) Is that even possible? Just throwing things out there cause I'm stumped.

Seedlings turning white

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