A Technique To Identify "Real Deal" Clones

englishrick · Nov 3, 2016

With the advancement of scientific techniques used in the cannabis community, a new wave of smokers has emerged ... The clone only grower, the CBD grower. The Terp grower. The scientific wiz,,, the book smart breeder,,etc

One thing that we tend to argue about between ourselves is "The Real Deal" ,,, everyone wants that original clone,,the one from back in the day,,the one legends are made of,,,the one that older smoker claims is better than the shit we smoke today,,,

So,,, in the last few years we have started testing our weed , more and more,,, we have actually started compiling data nearly on par with the human genome project,,,let's call it the cannabis genome project,,

So this leads me to my point,,,

What do you guys think of a system or service to test your clones to see there authenticity,,,would you guys be interested in such a service that could tell you if Grower A , grows the same clones as Grower B,,,

How might that effect the dynamic of our genetic collections and how we approach clone trade in the future,,,might we be looking for data sheets and certificates when trading or buying clones,,, it would certainly stop any arguments of who has what ,,,

Your thoughts? :huggg:

gorilla ganja · Nov 3, 2016

Great idea. Customers would get what they pay for.

Peace GG

FirstTracks · Nov 3, 2016

Seems like its gonna be a slippery slope, and the time is closer than we want. With ability to lock down profiles quickly and cheaply, patents on genetics become easier to create and enforce. Think big business in canna.

LostTribe · Nov 3, 2016

FirstTracks said:
Seems like its gonna be a slippery slope, and the time is closer than we want. With ability to lock down profiles quickly and cheaply, patents on genetics become easier to create and enforce. Think big business in canna.

Big canna will do as the wish whether we, the originators, decide to buy into their bullshit is another story....

I dont think anyone here is going to stop working genetics and passing cuts just because some asshole decides they are gonna copyright a name or try to patent a genetic profile, which I am not certain is possible really. Trademarking is obviously already taking place.

I could give a shit.

Keep to the code! Take everything leave nothing!

Virgin1 · Nov 3, 2016

I think it's a great idea be nice to know what was what I bet there would be a few upsets also though must be as many fake cuts as genuine mix ups going around

Chunkypigs · Nov 3, 2016

the terpene tests being done now will let you know if you are in the right ballpark.

here's a copy of my post in a different thread.
I've been interested in the cannabiniod profiles of various clone only medical strains and every
few months I go visit the labs who post their results online to compare the similarity of things like OG, Diesels, GSC, TW, hazes etc.

SC labs in Cali has a 33 point analysis that costs extra but you can find by using the radio buttons
to the left of this website and click on Terpene and then the type of sample you are interested in, flower,hash etc.
http://sclabs.com/tested.html?view=grid&type=Flower,Indica,Sativa&test=Terpene&limit=36&limitstart=0

you will get to an analysis that looks like this:

one thing that really interests me is the total percentage of Terpenes by weight that's at the bottom right.
It's like a volume guide to loudness.. :biggrin:

This Seattle lab tests everything for nine Terpenes and gives a percentage weight.

http://analytical360.com/testresults

You can get a good idea of the cannabinoid fingerprints of strains by watching these websites.

you can tell if you have the same clone with a cannabiniod and terpene assay you just have to realize
that overall amounts of a given compound vary between rooms but they will resemble each other in the terps expressed.

costs less than $100 in most states that have labs.

the real standard in the future will be the store you bought your clone from.
there are already clone vendors in Cali like DHN and Wonderland and others that will be more
trusted in the future than some guy on the internet with the "Chaco" cut. :biggrin:

Phylos · Nov 3, 2016

Phylos Genotype Test

Phylos Genotype Test

Greetings,

We came across your post and wanted to let you know about Phylos Genotype, our genetic identity test for cannabis. You can access all of the varieties we have sequenced, along with grower information and genetic reports at galaxy.phylosbioscience.com.

Our Genotype test is how growers can claim their position in the Galaxy. You can search for "AJ Sour Diesel" and see the tight cluster of legitimate clones. You'll also notice outlier "Sour Diesel" samples that are clearly mislabeled.

Check it out and feel free to contact info@phylosbioscience.com if you have any questions.

Cheers,
Phylos Bioscience

Chunkypigs · Nov 4, 2016

Phylos said:
Greetings,

We came across your post and wanted to let you know about Phylos Genotype, our genetic identity test for cannabis. You can access all of the varieties we have sequenced, along with grower information and genetic reports at galaxy.phylosbioscience.com.

Our Genotype test is how growers can claim their position in the Galaxy. You can search for "AJ Sour Diesel" and see the tight cluster of legitimate clones. You'll also notice outlier "Sour Diesel" samples that are clearly mislabeled.

Check it out and feel free to contact info@phylosbioscience.com if you have any questions.

Cheers,
Phylos Bioscience

how much does a test cost and can samples be sent from anywhere?

englishrick · Nov 4, 2016

Yep,, i would love to know more,,,also what's your database size atm?

Phylos · Nov 4, 2016

Chunkypigs said:
how much does a test cost and can samples be sent from anywhere?

The test costs $295 (with discounts kicking in when you order 5 or more) and we currently ship to and accept samples from 26 states. There's more information on the product page here and order can be placed directly on our website.

Phylos · Nov 4, 2016

It is currently over 1,000 samples, but will be growing constantly as new samples are submitted.

LostTribe · Nov 4, 2016

Chunkypigs said:
the terpene tests being done now will let you know if you are in the right ballpark.

here's a copy of my post in a different thread.
I've been interested in the cannabiniod profiles of various clone only medical strains and every
few months I go visit the labs who post their results online to compare the similarity of things like OG, Diesels, GSC, TW, hazes etc.

SC labs in Cali has a 33 point analysis that costs extra but you can find by using the radio buttons
to the left of this website and click on Terpene and then the type of sample you are interested in, flower,hash etc.
http://sclabs.com/tested.html?view=grid&type=Flower,Indica,Sativa&test=Terpene&limit=36&limitstart=0

you will get to an analysis that looks like this:
View Image

one thing that really interests me is the total percentage of Terpenes by weight that's at the bottom right.
It's like a volume guide to loudness..

This Seattle lab tests everything for nine Terpenes and gives a percentage weight.

http://analytical360.com/testresults

You can get a good idea of the cannabinoid fingerprints of strains by watching these websites.

you can tell if you have the same clone with a cannabiniod and terpene assay you just have to realize
that overall amounts of a given compound vary between rooms but they will resemble each other in the terps expressed.

costs less than $100 in most states that have labs.

the real standard in the future will be the store you bought your clone from.
there are already clone vendors in Cali like DHN and Wonderland and others that will be more
trusted in the future than some guy on the internet with the "Chaco" cut.

I suppose that would suffice and is already available. It would help to know if you tested samples of the same cut from different growers to see how the levels compared.

Chunkypigs · Nov 4, 2016

LostTribe said:
I suppose that would suffice and is already available. It would help to know if you tested samples of the same cut from different growers to see how the levels compared.

I think quantitative assay tells you way more than a "genetic galaxy" at this time anyways.

here's 4 terp profiles on GG#4 from sc labs run in the past 2 months.
they have samples testing between 18% and 29% THC but look how similar these terp results are even though they vary a lot in total percentages.

at least you get some hard numbers for your money as well as the ability to look at all their other tested results.

the genetic part is interesting but what is it really telling you?
they break the cannabis world into 6 sub sets:
Hemp
CBD
Landrace
Berry
Skunk
OG Kush

they say Harborside's Sour diesel has 15 relatives and is common but a clone called Original Diesel is unique in their galaxy and uncommon.

I have 5 years of experience shopping for Sour Diesel at Harborside and they were not always the same folks.

going forward from today genetic testing will probably be valuable in unseen ways but if you want to look back or to verify clones I'll sink my cash into terpene and cannabinoid testing until I hit the lotto.

englishrick · Nov 4, 2016

Terp analysis is very cool,, chemotype profile is awesome too,,,I'd be spending money on the Terp list fist,,that's my personal love rights there,,your so right on the over all Terp content too,,the overall weight on terps is a volume , I totally agree and it's inspirational to see you point that out, thanks , I've never seen overall Terp weight before,,I will be choosing my growth environment according to that figure in the future

Chemo profile is awesome,,I mean that's just beautiful,,,we then know the individual components,,,Terp profile and chemotype make up the active constituents list, an that is first priority in my eyes,,

But if we want 99.9% accurate data on past lineage and if a clone is an exact copy of another we also need the real DNA even RNA and marker brake down too ,,,we are seriously looking at marker assisted analysis nowadays,,,below is what I believe will be the canna kids gadgets of the future ,,

Terp profile under optim condition,,chemotype analysis and last but not least dna,, what we need is a full brake down at the end of the day,,,below is the type of tech I'm thinking about

If anyone is on this level please shout it from the rooftops,,,

englishrick · Nov 4, 2016

The use of next-generation sequencing (NGS) technologies for genotyping by sequencing (GBS) is becoming an increasingly important, cost-effective, and unique tool.,,, NGS is useful for association studies and genomics-assisted breeding in a range of plant and animal species, including those with complex genomes that lack a reference sequence. It can be used for the discovery and identification of SNPs or to screen large panels of known markers,,Sequencers enable plant and animal researchers to use flexible, high-throughput GBS to perform fast and cost-effective studies,,

Genotyping by sequencing (GBS) is a scalable research solution for genetic evaluation,,this technology allows you to target your most useful single-nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs) of interest for greater trait-mapping ef ciency at an economical price per sample, making them an attractive replacement for your existing platforms,,ultrahigh-multiplex PCR offers simple and fast library construction for targeted sequencing of specic genes or genomic regions. Custom primers are generated with high speci city using proprietary software to target just your sequences of interest—up to 5,000 amplicons can be easily prepared in one reaction.

Select target of interest or enter your specic genomic content online, Research panels can be designed against a number of preloaded genomes, or for any other organism, by uploading your own private reference sequence,,. Private references are stored securely using 128-bit SSL encryption. Simple, secure, and powerful

you can design for any custom reference genome

LostTribe · Nov 5, 2016

Chunkypigs said:
I think quantitative assay tells you way more than a "genetic galaxy" at this time anyways.

here's 4 terp profiles on GG#4 from sc labs run in the past 2 months.
they have samples testing between 18% and 29% THC but look how similar these terp results are even though they vary a lot in total percentages.

View Image

View Image

View Image

View Image

at least you get some hard numbers for your money as well as the ability to look at all their other tested results.

the genetic part is interesting but what is it really telling you?
they break the cannabis world into 6 sub sets:
Hemp
CBD
Landrace
Berry
Skunk
OG Kush

they say Harborside's Sour diesel has 15 relatives and is common but a clone called Original Diesel is unique in their galaxy and uncommon.

I have 5 years of experience shopping for Sour Diesel at Harborside and they were not always the same folks.

going forward from today genetic testing will probably be valuable in unseen ways but if you want to look back or to verify clones I'll sink my cash into terpene and cannabinoid testing until I hit the lotto.

That is exactly what I meant! And it looks exactly as I had envisioned. Those statistics are very very close! Thank you for sharing.

LT

englishrick · Nov 5, 2016

That was a fantastic post,, bravo!,,, I have to admit mr chunkypig,, your style is inspirational

sadpanda · Nov 5, 2016

i need to see a terpene profile of C99, like more than i need icecream

englishrick · Nov 5, 2016

I wish someone would do a full rundown in a one stop shop that accepts samples from all over the place

Terp, chemo, Dna/ Rna and marker profiling,,

The next big thing will be marker assistance,,breeding will never be the same when that hits the domestic community,,,

shishkaboy · Nov 5, 2016

Phylos said:
It is currently over 1,000 samples, but will be growing constantly as new samples are submitted.

Could you help me understand the "clonal relationship" and "genetic novelty score"?

Its seems like the clonal relationships would be to identify cultivars with multiple names.

According to the website,

"Genetic Novelty Score is an indicator of how many other varieties have similar genotypes."

What is meant by similar genotypes?

A Technique To Identify "Real Deal" Clones

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