Organic Fanatic Collective

Hello all,

We still lack proportions on some of the substatutes.


I am thinking on instant mashed potatoes as a carbo/protien/amino acid/npk source that I am sure is water soluable. Called stoned or crazy or phvqving nuts but I just might give it a try.

On my next tea I am going to add 2 tbsn/gallon of Potatoe Buds instant mashed potatoes.


I just happen to have a box that was left open and bugs got into it. So waste not want not.

minds_I


Buahahahahaha

potatoe Buds.....

jaykush, nice find on the coffee grounds. When I was a kid, that is what we used to put our night crawlers in to go fishing. Judging by your gallery pics, you to might fish. Am I correct? Nice area you live in . Now, what type of nettles are you talking about. I live in a humid, swampy area, on a large body of water. Are they just in your area or can they be found every where in the US? Now on the beer thing. I have never brewed my own beer so what about that for the Homemade LK? So far we have Nettles, beer yeast(used or unused?) and coffee grounds(used). We need to put all the numbers together and see how close we are to making our LK. I could make a batch next week if we can decide on the ingredents to use. I'm pressed for time this week but next I will have some spare time to work on it.

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hey, i cant be on much my internet is down and i jumped on a friends while he was at the store. fishing? yea sometimes its great fun to sit there with a doob and relax, lately ive been going to a new spot and giving a try at spear fishing. ( and let me say omfg is that shit hard.) ill get it down one day though.

as for the nettles, there common all over north america from what i remember. i find them in the mountains and pick them before they die in the fall. they usually pop up around spring. some people even have problems with having too many in there backyard.

the alfalfa i have been using for about two years, a friend turned me onto it and i love it. once a week feeding and maybe some foliar if i feel need be.

minds_i let us know whats up with the mashed potatoes, sounds funny though.


irie-i= sweet shots, that purple one reminds me of one i grew called nova, damn good smoke too bad i dont got it anymore i was the only person on the west coast with it.

try to be on as much as i can but i doubt it.

jaykush

Hello all,

Yeah the mashed potatoes sound funny I have to agree. But they are full of all kinds of good stuff so I can't really see much difference then using molasses or urine.

Anyway, I will give it a try on my next tea making day. And as I said I have a box that had got flour bugs in it so its no good to me any other way.

Besides, its also organic.

minds_I

(it is likely I am just going to make a big mess)

Potato flakes are a great source of nutrients in a tea, my mentor used rice flour or unbleached flour but potato flakes wil do just fine.

As for all you fishermen out their, in Octobor I'll fishing for stripped bass (~20lbs) off the NY coast, we do it every year and it is alot of fun and they give a good fight.
I also like fly fishing in my Quebec home, Tremblant has some great fishing but ya have to know where.

Stign nettles make for an awesome tea additive, they have alot K in them if I am not mistaken..but it happens alot according to my wife lol.

Suby

Great start to a great thread, I'm glad to hear from yall daily.

Hello all,

Suby, I was thinking on using the potatoes because of the amino acids available.

I have a lot of kitchen wastes such as left over milk. I checked that for its Nute value and looks good.

I presume it is imedately available.

Molasses has no amino acids and so a source is needed. This is along the lines of replicating LK.

I think with the molasses in the tea mix adding milk or the instant potatoes should not present an odour problem. And at anyrate, my carbon filter kicks ass and I have not smelled a thing in there in nearing 6 months now.

minds_I

Hello Suby, MI, Jaykush and irie-i how is going this fine day?

Fishing......Where I live Snook season is here along with Redfish and a few others but Snook....yummmmmmmmmy. since I don't eat red meat. Stripped bass is another and yes they do put up a good fight Suby. Its cooooold on the water up north right now.

Quebec.....I dated a very beautiful woman from there.....dark hair and spoke french, ahhh the memories. Hahaha.

Anyway, I thought MI had a good one with the potatoes. Was thinking of trying that one but the unbleached all natural organic flour in the cubbard, I think I might try that one first. I don't pay all that high price for organic food, it just will waste away up there. And since it is on my mind I wiil read the labels on everything to see specifically whats in all the Organic stuff I have. Maybe we can use something else also.

Have a good day/night all.

von

I am french as is my wife, you've probably figured that out from the odd spelling fuck up.
BTW most of the women here are beautiful, most homely guys still have a hot GF lol.

MI Be weary of milk, I know that powdered milk in teas is fine just use 1/2 the amount, ~5% of your mix.

Suby said:

I am french as is my wife, you've probably figured that out from the odd spelling fuck up.
BTW most of the women here are beautiful, most homely guys still have a hot GF lol.

MI Be weary of milk, I know that powdered milk in teas is fine just use 1/2 the amount, ~5% of your mix.

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Actually, it was the talk of Rona and the types of ProMix you get. I cannot get any of these.

Hello all,

Just a bit more googling and such:



A. Fermented Compost Solution - prepared by exhaustive bacterial and enzymatic fermentation of fish meal, composted seabird guano, spirulina, sea kelp, and soybean meal. In order to enhance the fermentation process and obtain a product which contains the highest possible biological activity, the fermentation is carried out in different stages in the presence of humic acid, citric acid, raw sugar cane, complex carbohydrates, glucose fructose and over 72 trace elements. Fermented Compost Solution prepared in this manner is used by an increasing number of organic gardeners to obtain luxuriant vegetative growth, huge flowers and flavorful fruits and vegetables.

Seems to me to be this can be easily substituted with a good tea base.

B. Amino Acids - Liquid Karma contains essential amino acids which are derived from casein hydrolysate and soybean protein hydrolysate. Amino acids are important plant nutrients because they serve as building blocks for structural proteins and enzymes. In addition, amino acids are also involved in the activation of transfer ribonucleic acids (t-RNAs) and DNA synthesis. The following amino acids derived from casein hydrolysate and soybean protein, are present in Liquid Karma: glycine, alanine, valine, leucine, isoleucine, serine, threonine, aspartic acid, glutamic acid, aspartic acid, glutamic acid, asparagine, glutamine, lysine, arginine, histidine, cysteine, cystine, methlonine, proline, phenylalanine, tyrosine, and tryptophan.


Definitions:

ca·sein (k s , -s n) n.
A white, tasteless, odorless protein precipitated from milk by rennin. It is the basis of cheese and is used to make plastics, adhesives, paints, and foods.

to fu [toh-foo] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun

a soft, bland, white cheeselike food, high in protein content, made from curdled soybean milk: used originally in Oriental cookery but now in a wide variety of soups and other dishes.


hy drol y sate 
–noun

any compound formed by hydrolysis.


I would bet this can be covered with say the instant potatoes. Inaddition to the carbos abd protien.

C. Vitamins - All of the vitamins used in this formulation are extremely beneficial for plant growth because they function as co-factors for enzymes involved in carbohydrate metabolism and the biosynthesis of macromolecules. Liquid KarmaTM contains significant amounts of riboflavin, thiamine, pyridoxine, and all of the other B-complex vitamins obtained from fermented yeast extracts.

I would think Superthrive (although not orgainc) would provide the most of the above. Beer (flat) is another alternative I would consider.


D. Plant Extracts - Liquid KarmaTM also contains aqueous and ethanolic extracts of etiolated wheat seedlings and Zea mays. These extracts contain high levels of the plant hormones known as auxins and cytokinins. For successful plant micropropagation (tissue culture), the crucial requirements for an auxin and cytokinin are well documented in botanical literature. An example of the beneficial effects of using Liquid KarmaTM in tissue culture is shown in Figure 1.

I would think Alfalfa tea would bring these. Also, liquid kelp would also contribute.

E. Humic Acid - In addition to the ingredients indicated above, Liquid Karma contains optimal levels of humic acid derived from leonardite. This substance is known to stimulate the growth of roots, shoots and flowers, by maintaining the proper osmotic concentration in cells.

Again, my liquid kelp has 6% humic acid naturally.

http://www.greenair.com/bio-genesis.htm#Bio-Genesis High Tide Seaweed

F. Seaweed Extract - Liquid KarmaTM also contains a high proportion of seaweed extract obtained from North Atlantic Kelp (Ascophyllum nodosum). Kelp extract contains metabolically active carbohydrates, complex carbohydrates, minerals such as cobalt, strontium and iodine, and growth substances that are known to be beneficial for plant growth.
Note how seaweed meal is used in item A.
G. Carbohydrates - Carbohydrates are included in Liquid KarmaTM because they are the direct or indirect precursors of virtually every metabolite. Their precense provides the added burst of energy required to assimilate and metabolize all of the other wonderful ingredients present in Liquid KarmaTM.


minds_I

All is needed are proportions.

minds_I

How about a stab in the dark. Maybe try 1 TBSP each of the ingredients you have that are the same or a close substitute for whats in LK. Maybe try a couple plants with 1 ingredient at a time compared with a couple plants fed LK.

I still have a feeling Spirulina is the key ingredient. I don't have the time or resources to test that theory right now though.

Don't proteins and amino acids break down to nitrogen?

i was at a feed store today and bought 3 gallons of molasses for $16. the label didnt say anything about mold inhibitors. i hope this means there arent any.
there was also a 50 Lb bag of dry molasses. i think it would be easier to use the molasses powder but i don know proportions so i got the liquid

guanoman said:

Don't proteins and amino acids break down to nitrogen?

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Yes they do but the reverse is also true...
I have often used a source of non animal protein in my teas just not always, by using element like rice flo9ur, unbleached flour, dried milk (use less than others maybe 1/2) in a tea you are providing the BB with a SOURCE of N to chew down and syhtesize their OWN proteins with.
I can't say i saw a visible change when i used it but it didn't do any harm thta's for sure, potato flakes may be the same but the powdered kind would no doubt be better and easier dissolved into the tea.

Hello all,

Irie, I am using the dryed molasses now and I think it is better just from teh mixing aspect.

Suby, yeah the powdered potatoes- and the cheaper the better in my opinion as they have less salt then say "Potatoe Buds"- a national name brand in the U.S.

My sweet wife was saying that from a human nutritional standpoint- real fresh maed mashed potatoes have more of whats good for you- she furhter went on to speculate that there would likely be more benifit to using real (left over) mashed potatoes. I know that the instant are more readily available to disolve in the water. A hydroslate(slurry) if you will.

I am going to be making my tea tonight in anticipation of watering/fedding in 48 hours or so.

I will however not put the instant potatoes in until the day I give it to the test plant.


I am concerned about my temps- in the shed its 66*F- kind of cold for growing bacteria- ten degree rise would surely speed the process along.

minds_I

Suby said:

MI I totally agree, why pay for something when you can make it yourself.
It's really the whole principle behind organics, whymake fertilizer when it exists already, raw and ready from nature.

I was once young and foolish and bought 2 very large containers of this stuff when running a hydro setup with PureBlendPro, it grew some fantastic herb for sure.
I do love it though, it's the only mixed fert I use other than an odd dose of PBPro Soil Bloom even if it's not 100% organic. {Yeah I know busted...}

Maybe together we can break it down and nail down the "Kernel's Secret".
And BTW tht beer res sounds fine...I think, everything in beer is good for plants and presumably the same for it's ingredients I know brewers yeast is great for fungi population.

Suby

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I was just re-reading the thread and I want to let you the "Colonel's secret is soaking the chicken for 24 hours in a salt solution. My brother and sister in law worked for them in the early 80's.

minds_I

I still wouldn't eat that shit if you paid me lol.

For a amino acid source I suggest a hemp protein powder seems like a no brainer growing cannabis plants, why no one suggested it sooner, don't know. It is not cheap, but for a can, $15, used sparingly maybe could be econimical, as a LK amino profile substitute.

Nutiva hemp Amino Acid Profile:
Aspartic Acid 4.36 g/100 g
Glutamic Acid 7.10 g/100 g
Serine 2.14 g/100 g
Glycine 1.34 g/100 g
Histidine 1.24 g/100 g
Arginine 6.15 g/100 g
Threonine 1.65 g/100 g
Alanine 1.39 g/100 g
Proline 1.53 g/100 g
Tyrosine 1.00 g/100 g
Valine 1.64 g/100 g
Methionine 0.79 g/100 g
Cystine 0.60 g/100 g
Isoleucine 1.22 g/100 g
Leucine 2.02 g/100 g
Phenylalanine 1.29 g/100 g
Lysine 0.96 g/100 g
Tryptophan 0.38 g/100 g

This product also has Mg, Zn, Fe, Ca, and vitamin E

Just a suggestion, I tried it in some teas, the shells of the hemp seed are ground up along with the inside of the hemp seed, and those particles do not stay suspended in thin liquid easily, so if mixing in a tea of 3 gallons, the dark particles that were the seed shell will sink to the bottom. I'd use only like a tsp per gallon, how could this not be good for cannabis plants?

Someone posted a thread on organic bloom boosters and some good points came up that I had been meaning to share with you, my fellow fanatics.

Two point worth mentioning here are that since organics for MJ start with a healthy ammended soil mix it goes without saying (or so I think) that what you put in you soil at the beginning is what makes the real difference in the end of flowering where "boosters" and other assorted commercial crap fill the void in a poor or spent soil.

A. In organics use more soil, don't go cheap with the amount of soil, whomever mentioned it 2 thumbs way way up.
In organics our mix is more than a substrate it is our fert base do use alot. Remember what Ed Rosenthal always says, as below as above ie greater roomasses lead to bigger buds.

B. Bloom boosters in organics are the one's mother nature gives us.
Teas with molasses and guano have been mentiones, feeding every time with an activayed microbe tea will get things hopping, using the right tea elements like kelp, molasses, alfalfa meal, EWC and guano are a good idea.

C. Mychorizzae, I never hear of anybody using it, I use it at every transplant and in short it is the most highly underrated additive in organics today, they multiply your rootzones potential at least twice over and more rootzone means more bud.

There is no magic formula for big buds, just giving the plants exactly what they need WHEN the need it.

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TGEscape TY for posting and welcome to the OFCollective.

For example I flower a 3foot well trained plant in a 5 gallon bucket filled to the brim with ammended soil, going cheap here will cost you in the end.
In organics I recommend 1.5gallons of soil per plant foot as opposed to the 1gal/plant foot every touts as gospel.

Think outdoors people, alot of soil, roots go as deep as the need and big huge buds even in shaded areas...

Also transplanting, you need to use transplanting strategically to get the most out of you soil.

Transplanting at the right ime and the right # of times will lead to a rootmass that fills the container, you don't get that at all by planting say a seedling in 2 gallons of soil.
Roots grow out and down, any of you who have transplanted healthy plants have noticed that the greatest concentration of roots in in the bottom of the pot and around the sides leaving most of the middle empty, nothing you can do about this.
What I do is use a clear beercup to root clones or seedling and when I see a fair amount of roots through the cup I tranplant to a 1 gallon container and I use Mike during transplant.

I give that 2 weeks then pop one to check the rootmass, if i see good rooting in the botton I get them in the 2 gallon containers veg those thoroughly for another 2 weeks them I flower in a 5 gallon container again using Mike at transplant.

Use a well brewed tea with every transplant and make sure to use quick and gentle hands so as not to stress the plants but don't worry about TP shock, that's a totally overstated fact that plants suffer from shock when transplanted.

What multiple transplant leave you with are concentric cylinders of rootmass that grow in width and length so as to fill you final container, i wish I had some of my OG pics for this but you get the idea.

More to come...
S

I came across this article while reading about compost and humates at gardenweb.com. This definitely belongs in the organic section, but I'm not sure if it applies to indoor. It may also be something close to the LK formula were all hoping to figure out.

I don't know, but either way here it is.

Milly's Bug Juice

One 5 gallon bucket
Corn starch
Bread yeast
Milly's MaxGro fishmeal (or use fish emulsion plus liquid seaweed emulsion)
Ripe fruit, such as plums, apples, apricots, peaches, pears, watermelon, peeled bananas -- no citrus.

The Bug Juice Formula

Yeast: Mix two teaspoons of dry baker's yeast, two teaspoons of sugar and one teaspoon of bread flour to 2 cups of warm water. Keep warm. It releases CO2, mix the solution to reduce the foam. Keep doing this until the mixture stops foaming. This means the sugar has been consumed. Add two tablespoons of cornstarch, or potato starch, 1 tablespoon of flour (a protein and nutrient source for the yeast) and allow the mixture to remain warm (very important) for 2 or more hours. Overnight is optimal. Then put it in the bucket.

Fruit: Pit the fruit, and puree it to a mush so it can be more rapidly digested by microorganisms. Add 1 pound or so to the bucket. Decaying fruit is fine -- it is already being attacked by microorganisms so it doesn't hurt to include them.

Cornstarch: Add 5 tablespoons to the bucket.

MaxGro: Add 10 tablespoons MaxGro (or fish emulsion plus liquid seaweed emulsion) to the bucket.

Fill the bucket with water to a few inches from the top and mix well. Add a handful of compost or the soil from around the root zone of a nicely growing plant (don't use surface soil). Place the bucket in the sun and put a piece of cheesecloth over it to keep flies away. Stir often. Don't fill the bucket up to the top.

After a week, start applying the mixture to your plants. It is best placed near the roots when transplanting (it prevents transplant shock). Otherwise, pour the Bug Juice into the soil around the plants. After it is absorbed, water extensively in order to get all the bugs and nutrients into the soil. They won't do any good if they remain on the surface. Apply 1 cup to 1 gallon of Bug Juice to each plant. Only trees and large plants require 1 gallon.


Dr. Stephen Martin
Milly's Gourmet Organics
Mailing list email: milly@ap.net

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From http://journeytoforever.org/garden_bugjuice.html

I first read about Bug Juice from this gardenweb thread.
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/soil/msg0702554518415.html