large-ish scale outdoor---building living soil

milkyjoe · Apr 3, 2016

Avenger...what does that look like on a practical basis?

You have 20,000 gallons of a really light soil in 2 yard pots...so 2000 gallons of water at least every other day if not daily for a while.

Some kind of injector into the irrigation system?

How do you do it orech?

milkyjoe · Apr 3, 2016

oct...I got another idea. Your soil is going to be really light weight which worries me a little on not overdoing micros. How about just weighing out a Kilogram and then do a volume measurement on it without drying it. So like if you have one of those plastic graduated cylinders hydro stores sell cheap, just dump the dirt into it and tell me how many milliliters.

The amounts of micros should be a little under that way but that is ok. The problem with micros is that too much will be a for real problem. You can get another Logan test next yr and add a little more micro.

In the mean time a little foliar if you need it

oct · Apr 3, 2016

@Avenger: Thank you. I appreciate you sharing. I need to learn more about water in general and doing that stuff will be a good lesson.

@Joe: Sounds good. I need to go to the irrigation store tmrw anyway, I'll grab a big measuring cup while Im there. Like you say, Once you put too much salt in the soup, your stuck with it. Foliar sounds good.

Avenger · Apr 3, 2016

Some kind of injector into the irrigation system?

Thats what I would do.

The Alk Calc gives numbers for 1:100, 1:128, and 1:200 injectors. But it is easy enough to figure the concentration needed for any injector ratio.

For example.

0.43 mL per gallon with a 1:128 injector (0.43 x 128= 55.04)
To make a gallon of concentrate for the 1:128 injector add 55.04mL to a final volume of one gallon. This one gallon of concentrate will treat 128 gallons of irrigation water.

Since the daily water use is fairly high, I'd go with 1:500 or better ratio. At 1:500 ratio, you would have to make 4 gallons of concentrate (215 mL of 35% sulfuric acid in one gallon final volume) to make 2000 gallons of 6.4 pH irrigation water.

dosatron D25re2 does up to 1:500 ratio and 11 gallons per minute flow.
Dosatron D14 does up to 1:500 ratio and 14 gallons per minute flow

milkyjoe · Apr 4, 2016

Do you have a holding tank that you water from that gets fed from a well? How big is the holding tank? Or how do you do it?

orechron · Apr 4, 2016

Dosatron is the way to go if you want all your water treated. I should have clarified that I was treating my well water the past years when I was fertigating because I mainly didn't want any interactions with what I was adding (sea shield, micros, etc.).

I had 55 gallon feed barrels connected to the mainline with a t and valve. Whenever I wanted to mix something I'd open the valve and close the drip line downstream to let the barrel passively fill. I'd mix somewhere in the ballpark of 30 mL of n-phuric into that 55 gallons then add whatever else. Sometimes I'd use only humacarb if it was going to be a microbial feed. Once it was mixed, I'd just close the upstream valve and open the downstream and that 55 gallons would passively feed the row in 25 minutes or so.

milkyjoe · Apr 4, 2016

Did you ever test water before and after the dosatron to see how much alkalinity dropped?

oct · Apr 4, 2016

Whats the ideal water for foliars? Same as what was said for my soil?

It might take me a minute to get my irrigation in check, but I could get my foliar program dialed in no prob. I was gonna pick up some acid today.

oct · Apr 4, 2016

Tiny home with western feel and loft bed.

Tiny home with western feel and loft bed.

Almost wrapped up. Excited to spend my summer in here. AC gets this baby ice cold in no time.

milkyjoe · Apr 4, 2016

RO water is best if you can. At peak you may hit 20 gal a week. Worth it in my oponion

orechron · Apr 5, 2016

oct said:
I was gonna pick up some acid today.

I second the RO for foliar. If you're going to spend the extra time doing foliar feeds you might as well do it right. Plus with ro you can develop a formula for different feeds and instead of checking pH of every mix.

For the tiny home I suggest laying a sleeping bag in the bathroom and throwing 2 gavitas over the main floor.

oct · Apr 5, 2016

@orech: If I hadn't spent the last 5 years in a 16 ft travel trailer, I'd probably consider it. At this point, I'd fight somebody to the death if they tried to keep me out of my mini-mansion.

@Joe: One kilo came out to 1700 ml. I made sure not to fluff or pack it.

milkyjoe · Apr 5, 2016

Avenger...please check this math. it is right at the edge of my paygrade .

So I went to google and typed in how many ml per cubic yard and it said 764,555. So x 2 = (1,529,110 ml/pot) / (1700 ml per kg) = 899 kg/pot.

So 1 mg/kg = 1 ppm means you need 899 mg per pot to = 1 ppm per pot or .899 grams per pot is 1 ppm

This is a really lightweight soil and shows why amending micros is so difficult in these mixes.

edit...so one quick example while I wait for Avenger to see if I did the calculation right. You need 3 ppm B and you have 0.46...so you need to bump it 2.5 ppm. 2.5 x 0.899 = 2.2 grams of B per 2 yard pot. Borax is 10% B so you would need 22 grams of Borax per pot. You can see how hard it is going to be to get that evenly dispersed in the pot. Watering it in is the only option...you can dilute that 22 grams as much as you want to allow for even watering in.

oct · Apr 5, 2016

I'm tuned in Joe. Whatever you thinks best I'll do.

milkyjoe · Apr 5, 2016

That is a dangerous position to take.

orechron · Apr 5, 2016

Ok Rodney Dangerfield, your math is correct within that formula. I'd go a little lighter though: 1ppm B for every 1000ppm Ca? So if he's at 0.46 and trying to get to 2.41ppm B the difference is 1.95 x 0.899 = 1.75 x 10 (borax) = 17.5g/2 yards? Half that if you're using solubor.

milkyjoe · Apr 5, 2016

I took a little bit of allowance for wet soil knowing that I never see enough B. But yea, safer is better with a little foliar support if needed.

I would also almost guarantee a Zn shortage (bottom 2 leaves on the leaf not symmetrical, or tips of leaves not perfectly straight left to right) even though Zn is a bit on the high side.

The B is because it leaches so easily, the Zn because our fucking P levels tie up so many cations.

milkyjoe · Apr 5, 2016

So we need to do Mn, Cu, Mo and Co. But I gotta run and cut some clones for my slow veggers today. I will be back later to finish this

oct · Apr 5, 2016

Thank you amigos.

milkyjoe · Apr 5, 2016

So lets do Mn. I am thinking trying to jump from 32 to 90 all at once in one hit is not the best idea, Kempf claims soils are not linear on the micros. So lets go half way this yr and then come back next yr and work on it again. So we are trying to go up 29 ppm this yr. So 29 x .899 = 26 grams of Mn per pot. MnSO4 is 50% Mn. 26 x 2 is 52 grams of MnSO4 per pot.

Cu, lets shoot for 5 ppm this yr. 5-2.23 = 2.77 grams of Cu per pot.. CuSO4 is 25% Cu. 2.77 x 4 = 11 grams of CuSO4 per pot

large-ish scale outdoor---building living soil

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