Commercial outdoor organic soil mixes for 2016

TheOutlawTree · Feb 6, 2016

Thanks for the clarification on 'light' soil, makes sense now and I understand it a little better. Unfortunately I have a ton more research and reading before I'll have a complete understanding of soil and all the different options available. I am confident I will eventually learn, but it wont be learnt in the next month and that is why I need help from everyone!

I'm really hoping to have a mix that has enough nutrients for the entire season. The mix schrews used with his 800g pots is at the top of my list, because of his results, and low price per yard of that mix... I would love to hear opinions or different thoughts on what could be added or substituted to that specific mix to make things even better, if even possible. I am happy to go mix up a couple different 1 yard mixes and send labs in to test, if anyone wants to share or predict good mixes for outdoor growing in california. I really want to have my mix figured out by the end of this month, so that leaves me minimal time, because of the fact test results take 5-7 days back.

Unfortunately I still haven't gotten an email back with any compost test results, so I'm probably going to have to take more initiative at the yard.

milkyjoe · Feb 6, 2016

Are you in an area where there is little/no rain around harvest time? And are you willing to go 800 gallons?

If yea then mix up a yard of coot/schrews and get it tested. Lets see where the Ca falls

TheOutlawTree · Feb 6, 2016

Hey milky- Yes, and Yes... I will get a yard mixed up early next week and labs sent in

KIS · Feb 6, 2016

TheOutlawTree said:
Hey milky- Yes, and Yes... I will get a yard mixed up early next week and labs sent in

Buildasoil posted an M3 test of the Coot mix on their instagram using Oly Fish vs Malibu compost recently. Might save you some $ or give you a comparison.

milkyjoe · Feb 6, 2016

I believe schrews used less Ca which is why I am curious....but I could be wrong.

I typically find of you want to be around 70% base cation saturation you need to add 7 lbs/yard Ca

NLfanatic · Feb 6, 2016

Nie and useful stuff! Thanks for the great info!

HL45 · Feb 8, 2016

Great thread. Looking to get 150 to 200 yards of soil this season, leaning towards a coots mix myself since the price is righthe and the results are there.

Avinash.miles · Feb 8, 2016

this is a great thread, thanks everyone for contributing

HL45 · Feb 8, 2016

milkyjoe said:
Are you in an area where there is little/no rain around harvest time? And are you willing to go 800 gallons?

If yea then mix up a yard of coot/schrews and get it tested. Lets see where the Ca falls

Did ya see the tests result? It was a comparison of the coots mix using Oly mt fish compost and Malibu compost. .calcium was above 70 in both cases. 73 in the Malibu blend and 75.82 in the Oly blend.

milkyjoe · Feb 8, 2016

What I really like to do is put together the base mix...no amendments...and get a test. Then amend to Albrecht

That way even if something changes I catch it. I never trust that compost is gonna be the same from windrow to windrow

Mikell · Feb 8, 2016

KIS said:
Buildasoil posted an M3 test of the Coot mix on their instagram using Oly Fish vs Malibu compost recently. Might save you some $ or give you a comparison.

Even more P than another test posted. Sure isn't looking good for mycorrhizal inoculants. Maybe the buffer helps soil texture..

VortexPower420 · Feb 8, 2016

I was under the usumption that myco fungi stop working when there is alot of avaliable P not stored P.

When avaliable P hits the soil it quickly bonds with many other elements and become bound rapidly. Then when the plant needs P it sends out the propper root exudes to incourage the mycorrhzae to release the P from the soil stores.

Having a high P on a m3 test shows what is there not what is immediately available or in solution.

Well that's how I understand it.

milkyjoe · Feb 8, 2016

I guess I will just say it. The mix on page 4, orechron, is a superior starting mix compared to cootz.

It is my next trial with a couple of minor mods

TheOutlawTree · Feb 9, 2016

milkyjoe said:
I guess I will just say it. The mix on page 4, orechron, is a superior starting mix compared to cootz.

It is my next trial with a couple of minor mods

Thank you for that comment, and all your contributions.

So I should use that mix instead of coots? Will that mix also have enough nutrients for the full season like the coots would? I'm doing 800g pots next season so i would hope so.

I'm going to try and get pricing and hopefully mix up those 2 different mixes in the next couple days to get test's sent in. If your willing to share- what minor modifications would you make to that orechron mix besides the stuff he already mentioned? I have a shit ton of clay at my property.... Should i send in a sample to logans lab? I am having some work done, so i could easily have a load of clay dropped to the pad that i could mix sparingly in to each 800g pot, or maybe the yard will be willing to source some other heavier topsoil. I'm going to have to stop up there, because there not following through with my previous questions.

milkyjoe · Feb 9, 2016

Yea send that clay in. You never know til you test.

I would trade biochar for clay/topsoil. That gives you 10% clay which will help the peat compost.

I would test it with no amends first to see where it is at

Coot just has too much K for me

Mikell · Feb 9, 2016

VortexPower420 said:
I was under the usumption that myco fungi stop working when there is alot of avaliable P not stored P.

When avaliable P hits the soil it quickly bonds with many other elements and become bound rapidly. Then when the plant needs P it sends out the propper root exudes to incourage the mycorrhzae to release the P from the soil stores.

Having a high P on a m3 test shows what is there not what is immediately available or in solution.

Well that's how I understand it.

200lbs/acre result on an m3 was the cut off point as I recall, roughly 1/4 of the reading posted on IG.

I'll see if I can find the article when I've got more mucking around time.

VortexPower420 · Feb 9, 2016

Word. I would love more info in it. Just from what I have read leads me to that conclusion.

Shcrews · Feb 9, 2016

MJ dropping knowledge bombs. This season I was leaning toward coots mix with half-strength amendments but i might have to re-think my soil strategy / mix although its tough to change when i'm getting good results.

Sending in samples today of

-3yr old vermifire
-2yr old coots mix w/ chicken compost , half strength amendments
-1yr old coots mix w/ oly mountain fish compost, full strength amendments

milkyjoe · Feb 9, 2016

On the P...it is what is in the plant sap itself that dictates the exudates the plant sends out. If it has enough then it stops sending the exudates that feed myco and the myco goes dormant.

Myco does way more than solubalize P. It also makes glomalin which is involved in in humification. And when you pull out roots in these high P mixes you don't exactly see "dreadlocks" that you would if glomalin were present

I want to see dreadlocks. So I want to be lower on P in the soil...how low, I don't know yet. Just gotta figure it out

orechron · Feb 10, 2016

VortexPower420 said:
I was under the usumption that myco fungi stop working when there is alot of avaliable P not stored P.

When avaliable P hits the soil it quickly bonds with many other elements and become bound rapidly. Then when the plant needs P it sends out the propper root exudes to incourage the mycorrhzae to release the P from the soil stores.

Depends on how it is stored is my guess. 500 ppm P field soil with 5% o matter is going to behave differently that 500 ppm P "media" with 35% o matter. In clay dominant soils I would bet the P locks on to Ca quicker.

milkyjoe said:
I guess I will just say it. The mix on page 4, orechron, is a superior starting mix compared to cootz.

It is my next trial with a couple of minor mods

I like it, but it has flaws. We've already talked about it being too light and the plants have trouble getting all the cations they need. I posted this on instagram as well but here is my current run with that mix:

They are on day 48 of flower. Just stepping in this room makes me smile. 13.5 brix and a recent AgSil fertigation pushed the pH up to 6.6 but they are still growing. Only 20% of the pistils are starting to turn.

Commercial outdoor organic soil mixes for 2016

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