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Are you serious? So now LED has walked in and taken over and I gotta learn i!?!

inc0gnit0

Active member
Its probably 4800k as seen from earth because the light is scattered causing us to perceive a yellow sun but the true colour is nearer 5780k as the sun is much more white. :2cents:

Doesn't this change with the season's? Cause the temp of an hps I'm pretty sure is 2,200k. And it makes buds plump like Frank's on a grill!
 

Dog Star

Active member
Veteran
Why there is no any producer that imitates 5780 K and full spectrum..!?

That simply dont have logic or i dont get lights at all...


While our plants growing mostly at 2200 K,its red dwarf star colour and we are G type
star,our plants was milleniums have same K and addopted to this "strain" of light while
we sees they go great also on other K amounts,they grow good even under "blurple"
and other weird combos...

thinking that legitt imitation of sun colour will give maybe great results in cannabionid
production,bud quality,etc.. maybe they will be leafier like outdoor is but stronger
resin effects.. i dont know... this post is like a brainstorming for what i wish
to sees in future as tested by some light company..
 

xet

Active member
Why there is no any producer that imitates 5780 K and full spectrum..!?

That simply dont have logic or i dont get lights at all...


While our plants growing mostly at 2200 K,its red dwarf star colour and we are G type
star,our plants was milleniums have same K and addopted to this "strain" of light while
we sees they go great also on other K amounts,they grow good even under "blurple"
and other weird combos...

thinking that legitt imitation of sun colour will give maybe great results in cannabionid
production,bud quality,etc.. maybe they will be leafier like outdoor is but stronger
resin effects.. i dont know... this post is like a brainstorming for what i wish
to sees in future as tested by some light company..

Contact a supplier direct and they will cut an LED chip for whatever temperature you are after.

There is plenty of room to explore with lighting combinations. The temperature of the sun changes all day and season so that is something to think about.
 

Dirt Bag

Member
I also once rigged up sealed lights cooled by an external source. All was hunky-dory... until the moment the air on one side of the system was enough cooler than the other (at night) that condensation forms. If you're lucky, it's on the outside and just makes a mess of your glass, but when the air on the inside gets warm and your room is cool you will have all kinds of condensation up in your lights. When it dries it leaves water spots on the aluminum reflectors that is near impossible to get off which is trivial compared condensation in the socket with the bulb. Bzzzzt! It's bad news.
 

inc0gnit0

Active member
I also once rigged up sealed lights cooled by an external source. All was hunky-dory... until the moment the air on one side of the system was enough cooler than the other (at night) that condensation forms. If you're lucky, it's on the outside and just makes a mess of your glass, but when the air on the inside gets warm and your room is cool you will have all kinds of condensation up in your lights. When it dries it leaves water spots on the aluminum reflectors that is near impossible to get off which is trivial compared condensation in the socket with the bulb. Bzzzzt! It's bad news.

Trials and tribulations. You need all the fans supplied to run the hvac light cooling system to one sometimes more fan controller(s)and you adjust the speed when the lights go off almost to 0. In fact since this was a sealed part of the grow. Unless it was a warm summer day when the lights were off I rarely ram it at all. Why would you? Your objective is to cool the lights. Lights aren't on , no need to cool
The reflectors I used did not come in contact with the tube that houses the light. You have to space fans along the chain of ducting so you get it pushing just right. Usually less coming right out the cool room and speeds up as it goes along.
But the ventalation fan and oscillating fans ran 24/7. So at night. Cut em off they don't do anything but cool the lights. No lights, why waste electricity. It's best to just keep the volume at the best setting and totally kill the connection with a timer when they all go off. I worked on this model for years and it works very well. But nothing is perfect, and it's still being scrutinized.
 

Medfinder

Chemon 91
i like led.. got a bunch of 2700 k 14 watt 1500 lumen bulbs from the 99 cent store.

i put um in 4 to 1 socket adapters and they run cooler than 600 insulated xxxl hoods.

for a tent i spent 40 bulbs and 35 for the socket adapters and 18 bucks for the light string.

under a hundred.

i like the frost taste and the yield was slightly less.

in cali..theres tons of used equipment on cragslist.
 

Dirt Bag

Member
Trials and tribulations. You need all the fans supplied to run the hvac light cooling system to one sometimes more fan controller(s)and you adjust the speed when the lights go off almost to 0. In fact since this was a sealed part of the grow. Unless it was a warm summer day when the lights were off I rarely ram it at all. Why would you? Your objective is to cool the lights. Lights aren't on , no need to cool
The reflectors I used did not come in contact with the tube that houses the light. You have to space fans along the chain of ducting so you get it pushing just right. Usually less coming right out the cool room and speeds up as it goes along.
But the ventalation fan and oscillating fans ran 24/7. So at night. Cut em off they don't do anything but cool the lights. No lights, why waste electricity. It's best to just keep the volume at the best setting and totally kill the connection with a timer when they all go off. I worked on this model for years and it works very well. But nothing is perfect, and it's still being scrutinized.

At night (when no fans are pushing air through the lights) the grow room temperature is kept cool. Warm ambient air would migrate through the lights because the duct ran through the attic before entering the room as well as afterwards (as the walls were concrete). This would condense within the ducts and light fixtures. As it only happens during the night cycle, it took us quite a while to even notice it and longer to figure out how to remedy it. We've moved since then and now our lights' air is completely within the room.
 

inc0gnit0

Active member
At night (when no fans are pushing air through the lights) the grow room temperature is kept cool. Warm ambient air would migrate through the lights because the duct ran through the attic before entering the room as well as afterwards (as the walls were concrete). This would condense within the ducts and light fixtures. As it only happens during the night cycle, it took us quite a while to even notice it and longer to figure out how to remedy it. We've moved since then and now our lights' air is completely within the room.


There are so many things you have to think about to get a grow op up and running like a clock. I've failed more times at trying things than succeeded. But got lucky with this system.
I have a one way flapping valve I fabricated that is mounted in the attic. It has a rubber ring around it to promote a nice seal when the lights and fans turn off. It's Knda like the ones you get for your dryer vent. This system works very well. It takes some tweaking at first but once I figure out the optimal temp to set the a/c, it's pretty solid. I did this to keep critters out, as well as separate the two areas. But I never even thought about the problem you had. Just something in my gut told me I needed to block that duct. Then one day i decided to make it work like a dryer duct as i was outside qhen laundry was going and i noticed the flap wide open. When they are running it's blasted wide open. When the lights kick off it drops shut with a decent enough seal to keep the temps separate and to keep squirrels out. of course the mesh would have done that. But when I'm growing. I'm constantly thinking of ways to make it more efficient. I've been up in the attic to check that it works. Had the wife cut the fans. I had to do some temporary changes so the lights would stay on once the fans cut. Could see a slight glow around the hole but we are talking about a lot of light. coming through. It took 7 or 8 tries to get It right but I did. And I'm not looking forward to resetting this all up. And I kinda am too.
 

Lost in a SOG

GrassSnakeGenetics
Doesn't this change with the season's? Cause the temp of an hps I'm pretty sure is 2,200k. And it makes buds plump like Frank's on a grill!

My impression is the spectrum on earth is scattered by various factors, mostly the angle of the sun to you and the light refraction caused by the amount of atmosphere the light is travelling through, but in mid summer when the sun is directly over head and the distance between you and it is the closest it gets its light has to travel the shortest distance so more of the red spectrum makes it through.

The sun is bluer in the morning and evening when its light is also travelling through more atmosphere.

Off earth it always provides a stable nice full spectral range at the same ratios, apart from the odd flare firing out gamma rays, its almost as if the sun was an electrical solid state diode rather than essentially a thermonuclear bomb, because it is so stable.. I personally believe the sun and whole universe is electric in nature.

Plants ideally want both chlorophyll a and b red and blue pigments activating but the red produces energy quicker than blue .. They also want green light as well.
 

Muleskinner

Active member
Veteran
I dont get proper those temperature light example..

and our sun is 5780 K,why they write 4800 K..

I think it varies b/w those 2 number depending on latitude and time of year. There actually are quite a few companies that offer natural daylight LED fixture.

The Fluence "Greenhouse" spectrum is 5000K white LED's with a few 660nm red diodes added. I've got P.L. Light Hortiled fixture and their "full spectrum" is designed to mimic daylight and is around 4800K.

But any 5000K LED is fairly close to natural sunlight right? Without the UV and IR.
 

inc0gnit0

Active member
My impression is the spectrum on earth is scattered by various factors, mostly the angle of the sun to you and the light refraction caused by the amount of atmosphere the light is travelling through, but in mid summer when the sun is directly over head and the distance between you and it is the closest it gets its light has to travel the shortest distance so more of the red spectrum makes it through.

The sun is bluer in the morning and evening when its light is also travelling through more atmosphere.

Off earth it always provides a stable nice full spectral range at the same ratios, apart from the odd flare firing out gamma rays, its almost as if the sun was an electrical solid state diode rather than essentially a thermonuclear bomb, because it is so stable.. I personally believe the sun and whole universe is electric in nature.

Plants ideally want both chlorophyll a and b red and blue pigments activating but the red produces energy quicker than blue .. They also want green light as well.



Yes! Yes! Yes! My friend. This has a lot to do with the grow. It's why when the lights kick on I get giddy like. A child and start the lights at a certain distance. Or I did.... This is all past and forgive me if I speak like it's now. It's habit. Every CPL to hour and a half I'd drop em a little. Until the last 4 hours when they are at the lowest. Now . This does nothing for different spectrums. But I think it helped I had one cola that was about 8 inches longer and she'd always end up in shadow. After a few hours of light. Curiously I left it. And it didn't stunt the growth at all. This was when I'd crossed OG kush with sour Diesel. I'm sure I'm not the first but the smoke was almost like a ... Well smoking a joint mixed with them both. Pretty plants easy to manage. I'm planning to buy six more strains at the hefty sum of $659.00 for 6 packs of 10. I don't buy fem I like getting a good stocky male gotta a little closet with a 100 watt hps (had) just for that purpose sealed off . I literally taped the door seams when it was closed cut a hole in the floor to bring in air another in the wall exhausting into a hash bag in a Rubbermaid trash can also in a closed room. Never had accidents. I wanna had a third genetic I just dont know what it needs. When I get out west I'll test some strains and make the decision in time.

You aren't the first to unveil this "fact" how would one duplicate this I'd have to take too identical clones and grow one inside, one out and document any differences. They may be miniscule
 

inc0gnit0

Active member
I'm still not on the l.e.d train yet I'll wait 5 more years I'd go with cmh but that's just me. Good luck

Yeh I've decided that. I am however gonna use two 20x8 strips for the sides. Anything for tighter nodes means more buds in the end. But I lost interest in pure LED a while back. Ive posted this on two different sites. This has always been my favorite forumn. The ppl aren't dicks and don't try to shive shit down your throat. Other forums I'm done with. They don't have the longevity of icmag or the content. I think there are benefits but not quite there as far as I'm concerned yet. Thanks for the input.
 

Lost in a SOG

GrassSnakeGenetics
Just depends on the rest of your setup as to whether changing a light brings an improvement or not.. However the old tech is practically obsolete already so in 5 years LEDs will probably have killed the HID game imo, except for CMH still maybe..

Id love to run my CMH but I cant excuse the extra wattage and heat for no extra return now I'm on the latest Samsung diodes..

Just do your research and dont start with the slightly cheaper blurple rigs, go high efficiency white. :2cents:
 

inc0gnit0

Active member
Just depends on the rest of your setup as to whether changing a light brings an improvement or not.. However the old tech is practically obsolete already so in 5 years LEDs will probably have killed the HID game imo, except for CMH still maybe..

Id love to run my CMH but I cant excuse the extra wattage and heat for no extra return now I'm on the latest Samsung diodes..

Just do your research and dont start with the slightly cheaper blurple rigs, go high efficiency white. :2cents:

I hear CMH isn't all that either. Maybe it's not over either as for being obsolete... I wouldn't go that far yet. I've made vast improvements on the hea front allowing for more light penetration and I have hit the 1gram per watt and passed it many times withHPS. I used to pull nearly 10 lbs out of the flower room. Which was 10x10. And that and that was 4khw. Counting the 4000 watts in the veg room that's either 2 grams per watt or 4 if you're only talking bout the light to flower.Usually about 12-15 plants. And keep in mind the first foot was almost nothing but stalk, I cleared the lower stuff for circulation and to allow the pvc to run until obstructed.. usually. Nothing obsolete about that it's all about how much light you can SAFELY get to the plant, the strain,and how well you know the strains needs. That room was free and clear with 3 to 4 feet of space all around the garden until harvest time. Yeh I had to go in a lot and space em out to make sure they all got air and fight mold. By the time it was chop city, you could barely get the damn door open. You literally had to go in chopping! And what a pain in the ass if there was a plant in the back corner that needed attention. Id have to disconnect the one shot pvc irrigation system I made to allow me to feed and water from one area and it would disperse it evenly throughout. I ended up changing the door to swing out. Real hi tech there but , and there are pics on here some where of the door open with beer bottle sised buds sticking a foot out the door. I just can't seem to find them. But once the irrigation got a clog near the back left corner and I had to pull out every plant one by one placing these 4 foot bushes all over the house to get to it and fix it. Almost lost 2 and they ended up needing another CPL days to finish when I cut the rest. Don't count em out yet. There is nothing wrong with the light they put out it's other issues and if I could get with a big time light maker I could share my secrets and help develop a system... Not just a light but a system to make them run more efficient. I've thought about it but don't possess the evidence anymore to back it all up.plis I'm pushing 50 with a life that's getting harder by the day It's such a simple concept. But it would require the grower to have a certain type of grow area as well. Well. When and hopefully if I settle my slip/fall case from 4 years ago in October I can do that. Cause I'm packing my crap up and heading to the Rockies. I'm done with the south east. And I can grow medically as much as I want with no hassle.
 

SaToRi_GrOwS

New member
Yeh I've decided that. I am however gonna use two 20x8 strips for the sides. Anything for tighter nodes means more buds in the end. But I lost interest in pure LED a while back. Ive posted this on two different sites. This has always been my favorite forumn. The ppl aren't dicks and don't try to shive shit down your throat. Other forums I'm done with. They don't have the longevity of icmag or the content. I think there are benefits but not quite there as far as I'm concerned yet. Thanks for the input.
Yeah I was going crazy over on IG with the fuckboy shenanigan drama everywhere. I like it on icmag. But about the cmh.... Best money I ever spent dude. Crazy fast healthy growth, tight nodes... And great returns. I am not having a problem with heat at all either actually cooler than my air-cooled 600 and 1000 watt hps hoods I ran for a decade. For the 6 fixtures I'm using a 5k btu ac and it's perfect. Sitting at 80 which is perfect since I'm using c02 But I did have them too close at first about 18 inches away and had some light burn on a few leaves even though it didn't feel hot so it's better to have em up higher I put em up at 24 inches above canopy and now I have that nice 5x5 footprint with multiple lights I think it be more like a 4x4 with just one. But at 630 watts it's def performing like a d.e. 1000 watt
:woohoo:
 

amannamedtruth

Active member
Veteran
https://www.ledjournal.com/main/blogs/400w-led-grow-light-can-replace-a-1000w-hps-true-or-false/

CONCLUSION

PPFD Uniformity ratios greater than 1.5:1 create inefficiencies in how much of the PPFD becomes useful to what is being grown in the grow bed. Uniformity ratios over 6:1, are common in 90% of LED grow lights in the marketplace. This applies as well as to all conventional HPS fixtures if you place them close enough to put 90% of its light in the grow bed (which no one actually does, because of excessive radiated heat).

With such poor PPFD ratios you might wonder why manufacturers even publish the data. They are really saying to the single-fixture user… “We know our light distribution is poor and degrades crop predictability but we’ll leave it to you to where and how you want to be inefficient.”

You can—-

1) Put the fixture very close, and lose use of the outer 50% area of the grow bed, turning the center area into a much smaller but predictable grow area , or

2) Put it much farther away, creating a more uniform light distribution, but much less light level at each spot, and much wasted light off to the sides—again, very inefficient power use but at least a more predictable crop result.

This all means it is almost pointless to dwell on whether a fixture or particular LED is 1.8 or 2.0 or 2.2 PPF/watt when a more than 100% gain in real efficiency– i.e. productivity– can be achieved by a) better PPF uniformity and b) elimination of light spill off to the side. Ideally, we want 100% of that light to be delivered to the grow bed and the grow bed only. Next, we want all that light to be landing equally on every square inch of the grow bed.

Finally, it should be noted that in an LED-versus-HPS debate, taking advantage of collimation to improve uniformity is something almost impossible to achieve with HPS because it would require at least a 3-foot diameter collimating optic to do it right.

The best so-called 1000 W HPS, after ballast and significant optical losses, really delivers only about 750 watts of useful light to a grow bed . However, available for less than $400, it is only going to be meaningfully threatened by LED technology when a 400W LED unit, whose superior longevity and spectrum options are acknowledged, can also add 1) the dramatic efficiency- equivalency benefit of uniform PPFD and 2) a price point below $600.

Until then, LED grow lights will repeat the history of LED light bulbs and luminaires in the 2002-2006 time period.—much industry buzz and rosy research-report market projections, but no traction. With the lessening of specification smoke and mirrors and a sharp drop in pricing, the commercial LED lighting market did in fact grow dramatically.

Ed Rodriguez has over 40 years experience in the power electronics and lighting industries,, with 32 issued patents. A power semiconductor product manager with Unitrode/Texas Instruments, he later was founder/CEO of two successful venture-capital-backed firms in optical IC’s and switching power supplies. More recently he has been chief technical advisor to numerous firms engaged in developing advanced LED lighting technologies.
 

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