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Taking fire safety to the next level in my new build...

rives

Inveterate Tinkerer
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ICMag Donor
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Be sure and use salt water - it will conduct the electricity better and insure that the breaker trips quickly.
 

jd4083

Active member
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Nope, I think he's on point. The only changes I would make are to use comically large water balloons and heat-triggered crossbows.

I'll post some pics once everything is teetering above my electrical wiring.

Be sure and use salt water - it will conduct the electricity better and insure that the breaker trips quickly.

:laughing:
 

DrFever

Active member
Veteran
I've had ballasts running for 5 years that never caught fire... but there there was that one that did... Anything electric has the potential to start a fire. I think it's unlikely for a fan to do anything more than die, but you never know... and I don't ever want to get caught with my pants down again.

Thanks for the input Dr. Fever. I agree the OP should consult with an electrician. I happened to have one show me what I'm doing wiring circuits and he's checked my work since then, but I let him upgrade my panel to 200A before I did anything.




Was talking to my neighbour who is master electrician and asked him a few questions this is pretty much what came out of his mouth it is not dangerous to energize electrical components, gadgets, devices and equipment. They do not present a hazard unless they are handled incorrectly or have the potential to alter into something that presents a danger.
He went on saying what can trigger a electrical fire is over loaded electrical out lets incorrectly wired plugs outlets and switches, and short circuits and this is why its rather important to have a certified electrician do all the wiring instead of searching the Net for half truths especially when safety is a concern PERIOD

Not saying a person can not do it himself but if he is doubting some things then maybe just spend the little extra to sleep better at nights or not have that worry when your not home .. get a electrician
So this brings me to the next Question ???
this room you are building is it going to be sealed ???? and if so my guess is your going to run c02 so really there will never be a fire in that room
i am reading above posts that sprinkler system what the hell >??? water will never extinguish a electrical fire just get you electrocuted water is a conductor
Use C02 injection or invest in a c02 fire sprinkler system but again if your to cheap to get a electrician in to do it right the first time the later part may be out of your cost range
i think you can also run a inline panel down stream from main one ??? so maybe 2 breaker system
Bottom line It is important that your home’s wiring is installed and updated according to current building codes in order to prevent short circuits and overloads
 

LSWM

Active member
Was talking to my neighbour who is master electrician and asked him a few questions this is pretty much what came out of his mouth it is not dangerous to energize electrical components, gadgets, devices and equipment. They do not present a hazard unless they are handled incorrectly or have the potential to alter into something that presents a danger.
He went on saying what can trigger a electrical fire is over loaded electrical out lets incorrectly wired plugs outlets and switches, and short circuits and this is why its rather important to have a certified electrician do all the wiring instead of searching the Net for half truths especially when safety is a concern PERIOD

EVERY electronic component has the capacity to fail, this includes the breakers designed to protect failure. The NEC, exists to REDUCE THE CHANCE OF FAILURE. It does not ensure 100% success.

Dehumidifiers being pulled off the market and recalled, because they burned houses down has happened multiple times, killed dozens of people, and burned hundreds of homes, all in the last 20 years within the United States.


Not saying a person can not do it himself but if he is doubting some things then maybe just spend the little extra to sleep better at nights or not have that worry when your not home .. get a electrician
So this brings me to the next Question ???
this room you are building is it going to be sealed ???? and if so my guess is your going to run c02 so really there will never be a fire in that room

Lawl... Combustion requires 3 things. A combustible substance, OXYGEN, and heat/ignition. Having 3 times the normal amount of CO2 does not prevent any of the above from happening.

i am reading above posts that sprinkler system what the hell >??? water will never extinguish a electrical fire just get you electrocuted water is a conductor
Use C02 injection or invest in a c02 fire sprinkler system but again if your to cheap to get a electrician in to do it right the first time the later part may be out of your cost range
i think you can also run a inline panel down stream from main one ??? so maybe 2 breaker system
Bottom line It is important that your home’s wiring is installed and updated according to current building codes in order to prevent short circuits and overloads

You seem to think that extra layers of protection are not important when growing, and that simply having a licensed electrician solves it all. Unfortunately this could not be farther from the truth, and having proper electrical work done is only the first step in a multi step process of providing protection of growing spaces.

EVERY component has the capacity to fail, the more fail safes that are in place the less likely failure will occur. With growing indoors, in a residence, there are MANY points of failure, and securing them all is not as simple as calling a licensed electrician. I sincerely hope you don't fall prey to this fallacy, and lose your life or a loved one.

Bobblehead barely made it out alive, to belittle safety in a thread about safety, is not only foolish, but a danger to others as well.
 

devilgoob

Active member
Veteran
Except I said the switches would be all tripped off.

Originally Posted by devilgoob View Post
Why not have loads of water suspended and teetering, attached to a string that runs through a series of pullie's through the room?

If one part of the string breaks because of fire, it dumps water and turns off switches by falling. Cool huh? Daring as shit though.

Before the buckets or even sprinklers go, have them toss OFF the switches.

It's embarrassing, because you quoted me, and I said it two separate times.

Only an imbecile would conceive that plan without tripping the switches.

You think I am an imbecile, but read first. Read first the two separate times that I made sure to cover my ass, by saying it two times.

So that people would have a second chance to realize, and not go

"LOL BUT THATS WATER THAT"S GONNA...."


No, it's not. The switches would be off.

Anyway, anybody have any ways of stopping a fire, other than mine?

Glad I could come up with something.



Wouldn't want someone to just use safety tips. You can use all of them you want. Once a fire starts, the last thing you have to worry about is electricity.

Especially when you design it the throw the switches OFF.

Then once you have an idea, overstate it, so people don't say the first general thing that comes to mind without reading.
 

jd4083

Active member
Veteran
That makes sense, since I said the container would trip the switches off, before the water fell.

Other than that, nobody has an idea about a sprinkler system.

Like I said, and it's superobvious and you can call me dumb if I didn't mention it..but I did mention it would trip the switches OFF.

Can't comment on your method as I went a different way with my setup and settled on a pair of trained Rheesus monkeys with dry chemical fire extinguishers strapped into full harnesses hanging from opposite corners of the tent. I also set up a failsafe heat trigger so if it gets too hot and the monkeys pass out the extinguishers start spraying automatically. Seems pretty foolproof to me, but we'll see how things go.
 

devilgoob

Active member
Veteran
Oh, too complicated then?

Let the fire grow then.

Ok, offset the container or sprinkler to the side.

Anyway, the sprinklers in schools don't leak water. All you need is raised water.

I was joking about the teetering thing.

What's more dangerous, having a failsafe water source to stop a fire, that is off to the side somewhere and raised up to prevent fires...

Or putting a hot light above flammable plants.

I just want to know which one is inherently dangerous, considering the first one SHUTS OFF the electricity first.

It's simple enough, so I thought you'd understand. They have systems like this.

Make fun, you're not an engineer and you're NOT ABOUT TO STOP A FIRE.
 

jd4083

Active member
Veteran
Oh, too complicated then?

Let the fire grow then.

Ok, offset the container or sprinkler to the side.

Anyway, the sprinklers in schools don't leak water. All you need is raised water.

I was joking about the teetering thing.

What's more dangerous, having a failsafe water source to stop a fire, that is off to the side somewhere and raised up to prevent fires...

Or putting a hot light above flammable plants.

I just want to know which one is inherently dangerous, considering the first one SHUTS OFF the electricity first.

It's simple enough, so I thought you'd understand. They have systems like this.

Make fun, you're not an engineer and you're NOT ABOUT TO STOP A FIRE.

I'm not sure if you're trying to argue with me or what but this is a one-sided thing. :laughing: You're right, I'm no engineer, I made my comment and moved on...but since you're still talking about it, what happens if the mechanism that kills the power fries somehow?
 

rives

Inveterate Tinkerer
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ICMag Donor
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On another note, I had asked earlier about these and didn't see a response. Anybody have any thoughts/experience with these (or ATL in general)?

http://www.advancedtechlighting.com/fire.htm

I don't know anything about those specific models, but the Flame Defender units have been used by several people on here. They seem to be much more reasonably priced than the ATL units. Everybody from Amazon to eHydroponics stocks them, and there was a retailer a while back selling them at cost just because....... Can't remember who it was, though.

I've set up computer rooms with halon systems that had a switch built into the discharge head. When the bottle was actuated, it triggered a shunt-trip breaker so that the power source would be turned off at the same time. Kind of like DG's setup, but without the Rube Goldberg provenance.
 

Mikell

Dipshit Know-Nothing
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I'm not sure if you're trying to argue with me or what but this is a one-sided thing. :laughing: You're right, I'm no engineer, I made my comment and moved on...but since you're still talking about it, what happens if the mechanism that kills the power fries somehow?

Stop now, or be prepared to suffer the onslaught of book-length replies :biggrin:
 

jd4083

Active member
Veteran
I don't know anything about those specific models, but the Flame Defender units have been used by several people on here. They seem to be much more reasonably priced than the ATL units. Everybody from Amazon to eHydroponics stocks them, and there was a retailer a while back selling them at cost just because....... Can't remember who it was, though.

I've set up computer rooms with halon systems that had a switch built into the discharge head. When the bottle was actuated, it triggered a shunt-trip breaker so that the power source would be turned off at the same time. Kind of like DG's setup, but without the Rube Goldberg provenance.

That Flame Defender thing looks interesting...why's it so cheap? kinda worries me, although I guess it's a fairly simple mechanism and dry powder isn't super expensive...does it come with everything you need or do you have to install a heat trip?



btw, I've been researching devilgoob's method and came across an early prototype:

gFyugFL.jpg
 

rives

Inveterate Tinkerer
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I don't see the string to the light switch, though. It's appropriately named - it's a MIRACLE if it works......

I don't have one of the Flame Defenders, but I think that they are all ready to go with a 155-degree head. Most chemical extinguishers are pretty affordable, it's the halon ones that get expensive. With halon, you need to stop all airflow when they trip because they depend on a high concentration of the gas to put out the fire. If you don't shut off the power and the air, a fire has a very good chance of outlasting the retardant.

Here is a link to an old page on here about the flame defenders - https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=161754
 

Jhhnn

Active member
Veteran
That Flame Defender thing looks interesting...why's it so cheap? kinda worries me, although I guess it's a fairly simple mechanism and dry powder isn't super expensive...does it come with everything you need or do you have to install a heat trip?



btw, I've been researching devilgoob's method and came across an early prototype:

View Image

Those were usually filled with carbon tetrachloride, the early version of halon-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_tetrachloride

Maybe more effective than we imagine. They did what they could back then.

I haven't moved up to fire suppression equipment, but I am going to linked smoke alarms-

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Kidde-Ba...-Alarm-RF-SM-DC/100655041#product_description

One advantage of halon over dry chem extinguishers is that dry chem makes a helluva mess. That's of secondary importance, but part of why halon is used in restaurant kitchens.
 

Mikell

Dipshit Know-Nothing
ICMag Donor
Veteran
HAH! Those fire grenades were the first thing I thought of when I read of the unquestionable power of water to put out electrical fires.
 

devilgoob

Active member
Veteran
Hopefully a GFCI would sense that things have gone awry and shut-off things quickly also, cuz they totes trip when water is thrown around.

Yes, my idea is...well it's just an idea that could work. Schools have sprinklers.

If you had that over your light, but your light is on fire, it's not like "oh no, don't put water on that flaming light." Plus you just extend your reflector past your plants so the water dumps over that LOL. Maybe even guide the fire stopping water back into the pots, along with nutes. LOL That way if there is a fire, your prevention scheme is already working!! (Oh I am full of ideas)

But a sprinkler would be better, but more complicated. It's all about the shut-off at the outlet region too, because anywhere there is a problem, may cause wires to heat up and throwing water on it, could cause that, but not if GFCI'd. I was assuming this was included, but YES it must be included if you use...a sprinkler system.

I was being ironic by saying hover water over the light. LOL I always present my most serious ideas that way. But that string pulley, you'd just run the pulley where a fire COULD occur, you could even run it along on your wires. It's really just replacing a fire alarm, which is false, with a breaking string, which a fire only could've done, if the whole system had continuity between the pulleys, and all.


Ok, I really do sound paranoid:

1) I watched a nature show where a guy lived in a house, flood proof and raised in the woods, hunted his own food, for 15 years. I did not see a pulley system and it burned to the ground. That implies that dumping water around his fire place only, where only fires could've started, or furniture, could've helped.

2) I was smoking at a friends house, and before I left the room, I found a paper with it's edges embering. I put it out. It was an old power bill. Pick up your stuff, don't let it lay around. So if there is one relevant tip I had, it's that! Plus, again, we didn't know that popping threw something, we looked! But I saw it before I left the room.

It was like final destination. The buckets could throw load switches, before they tipped all the way. Or you could have the pulley string holding the load switch up, and a weight, down. Those GFCI's will flip anyway!!!1


Originally Posted by rives View Post
I don't know anything about those specific models, but the Flame Defender units have been used by several people on here. They seem to be much more reasonably priced than the ATL units. Everybody from Amazon to eHydroponics stocks them, and there was a retailer a while back selling them at cost just because....... Can't remember who it was, though.

I've set up computer rooms with halon systems that had a switch built into the discharge head. When the bottle was actuated, it triggered a shunt-trip breaker so that the power source would be turned off at the same time. Kind of like DG's setup, but without the Rube Goldberg provenance.

Yes, I admit, a string isn't the best. LOL . It's just so specific, because if you sense fire and you throw water or that stuff everywhere, yes it's a mess. A string senses actual fire. Or a cat.

^So is there a sure-fire way to know a fire..has started?
 

Skinny Leaf

Active member
Veteran
Rives is on the right track.

Firstly, suppression and extinguish are two entirely different words. Suppression is not necessarily going to put a fire out. It will suppress it so that it gives firefighters a longer window of opportunity to extinguish the fire. Extinguisher equipment is meant to put out fires as in sprinklers you see in a building.

Rives, mentioned server rooms with Halon. Here is what happens in these server rooms. In the case of a fire there are going to be two stages. The first stage is what we call a pre-alarm condition. That means a smoke detector has sensed smoke. A couple things happen here. In most cases the fire department is called and other personnel are notified. The pre-alarm is just that it gives personnel some time to respond and perform actions that are mandated by their company. Now, if a second smoke detector senses smoke this sends the fire alarm into full alarm mode. This includes building wide notification, solenoid trip of the halon bottle, complete power shutdown to the IT room, electronic lock devices are opened, and HVAC units are powered down. For the Halon to work properly the room has to be completely sealed and any and all fans should shutdown. Halon is an oxygen depletion gas.

I have to go to work but I will come back and tell how an elevator equipment room is saved from fire and how people do not get trapped in an elevator when a fire breaks out. This setup would probably be more suited for those that did not want the fire department to come out. I do not know what products are available to home owners for fire protection because I mainly do commercial. The best bet would probably be a burglar/fire alarm hybrid panel instead of going with individual fire detection/protection devices. This would give a person contacts to work with for different types of signals generated by fire alarm devices on the fire/burg panel. And these panels have battery back-up.


Oh yeah that globe of red water is heat sensitive. It breaks on a certain temp and all of its contents dump. Not what you want.
 

EclipseFour20

aka "Doc"
Veteran
If it were me, I would identify my "weak links"...the ones that potentially are "fire bombs" and respond accordingly--instead of looking for a "single silver bullet.

Breakers get hot, melt and can go "poof" if they are overloaded or "old".
Smaller gauge wire can get hot (#14 vs #10) if overused
Appliances become faulty and go "poof"
Lamp bulbs explode

Each of the above situations requires a different "solution"--not "one size fits all". If the wires are hot (overload) then the "water bombs"/sprinklers probably will do nothing--since the fire/heat is probably within the walls. If the circuit breakers melts...then "water bombs"/sprinklersw in the grow will be of little help--unless the panel is in the grow room (directly beneath the "water bomb"/sprinkler).

If you think concrete and steel are "fire proof"...I have three words for you "World Trade Center". IMHO, having a "false sense" of safety/protection is worse than having "none".

So, if it were me, I would think of all the potential fire hazards, prioritize them and respond accordingly. Nothing is more comforting than having a "real fire extinguisher" (rated for electric fires) in the garden area--hanging on the wall.
 

Jhhnn

Active member
Veteran
Halon is an oxygen depletion gas
That doesn't really explain how halon works-

At high temperatures, halons decompose to release halogen atoms that combine readily with active hydrogen atoms, quenching flame propagation reactions even when adequate fuel, oxygen, and heat remain. The chemical reaction in a flame proceeds as a free radical chain reaction; by sequestering the radicals which propagate the reaction, halons are able to halt the fire at much lower concentrations than are required by fire suppressants using the more traditional methods of cooling, oxygen deprivation, or fuel dilution.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halomethane#Fire_extinguishing

CO2 extinguishers work on the principle of oxygen deprivation, however. Dunno that they make such a thing, but growers' CO2 bottles could be equipped with a fusible plug adapter between the bottle & the regulator. If the temp goes too high, the plug melts, discharges the bottle. Some HVAC systems use fusible plugs as the safety of last resort in condensers or receiver tanks for different reasons.
 

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