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Old 09-19-2018, 11:38 PM #41
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Correction from the last email. The whole plant extract is 26% total THCV and 35% total THC.
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Old 09-20-2018, 04:38 AM #42
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I call Bullshit.
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Old 09-20-2018, 05:31 AM #43
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Originally Posted by cacannabinoids View Post
The whole plant extract is 26% total THCV and 35% total THC.
Extracts can be that strong, but not the plant itself. Do they sell that kind of extract anywhere?
I haven't seen any THCV extracts out there yet. Guess I'll have to start looking now.
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Old 09-20-2018, 05:50 AM #44
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Well your BS radar must need retuning.
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Old 09-20-2018, 05:52 AM #45
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We do sell it. It will be back on the market in a month.
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Old 09-20-2018, 08:22 AM #46
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If you want to eliminate any effects that the terpenes may contribute to the THC/THCV flowers or concentrate, you need to try 100% pure THC and 100% THCV in different ratios to find proof that the THCV is making the THC effects stronger or better.
I have done this with 12 subjects and none reported that THCV made THC stronger in fact they all reported the opposite. These were double blind tests.

If the effects you reported "may not be correct with respect to the effects of pure THCV" then where did the effects come from? I would guess terpenes.

We did our testing with both HPLC and GC, I prefer GC as that is closer to what a smoker gets as the heat of smoking does destroy some of the Cannabinoids, similar to what a GC does to analysis of the Cannabinoids. With oral THCV an HPLC might be better, as long as the THCV is not THCVA as the acid forms of the Cannabinoids may and do have different effects from the neutral Cannabinoids like THC or THCV. We did test both THCVA and THCV neither helped make THC stronger or better, we only did smoking, or vaping in a Volcano tests. We did not do oral tests. Our testing was done around 2000.

I think you are presuming it was the THCV that "dramatically alters the effects of THC and other compounds when it is present along with these in a concentrate or other mixture."
I suggest you try 100% pure THC with 100% pure THCV and then report the results, we found the more THCV the less strong the THC effects were.

I am not trying to say that THCV has no medical use, I am refering to recreational use.
For example CBD modifies THC but not in a positive way for most folks that want to get higher.
CBD delays onset of the THC effects, reduces peak experiences, and makes the reduced effects last longer. Some like this but it does not make THC stronger. THCV is similar.
When we developed THCV only varieties the higher the THCV and the less THC the worse the smoke was for recreational use, we all hated the THCV only varieites they were like smoking hemp. They did have almost a 100 to 1 ratio of THCV to THC, much higher in THCV and much much lower in THC then your variety. Even a concentrate would be less then 1% THC.
We did get high from THCV/THC varieties that were closer to 1:1 but you also get high if you smoke 1:1 CBD/THC varieties but no one or few think CBD makes THC stronger or better for recreational use unless THC only varieites do get them to high and paranoid, and they use the CBD/THC to prevent that. That I understand, as long as they do not claim that CBD gets them higher.

On your WWW site you say:
"THCV Is Different From the Stuff That Gets You "High"
In small amounts, THCV in its pure form is not psychoactive - it's different from ∆9THC, which is the main psychoactive component of most cannabis products."


I agree but also say THCV in larger amounts also does not get you high.

When you said on your WWW site: "THCV : The Unicorn of Cannabinoids
THCV is one of the rarest cannabinoids in the market today. According to a licensed California lab, out of 100,000 samples, only a single strain ever tested over 3% THCV: this unique varietal expresses a 1:1 ratio of THCA:THCVA - something never before experienced by the modern cannabis consumer. THCV is the next frontier in cannabinoids."


The lab may well say that but I developed a THCV variety from scratch that was over 10% and with almost no THC more then a decade before this. We licensed the variety to GW Pharmaceuticals.
-SamS


Quote:
Originally Posted by cacannabinoids View Post
This thread is interesting and hits close to home for in a number of ways. I have been growing 7%+ THCV strains for the last few years r, AND I was CEO of Steep Hill when the "Sportscar of Cannabinoids" was written. I have also tried THCV in many combinations with other cannabinoids and terpenes, both as a whole plant extract, and at various stages of extraction and distillation. As a THCV retail products company, I have also had the opportunity to garner a good amount of feedback from various individuals who have sought me out, or bought my Doug's Varin concentrates in the East Bay, CA. After now solving the puzzle with respect to California cannabis licensing, our products are returning to the shelves on a broad basis next month.

The Doug's Varin concentrates are approx 26% THCV and 35% THCV, so approx 1 : 1.3. They are also a blend of multiple fractions that range both higher and lower with respect to total cannabinoid content.

The Sportscar article was written by Kymron DeCesare of SHL, and probably reflects his experience with a concentrate of his own making. It was probably a whole plant extract, and it seems doubtful to me that he would have had access to pure THCV at that time. However, his description correlates pretty tightly with the effects of a Doug's Varin whole plant extract. This article has gotten more than its fair share of mileage, due in part to the dearth of available THCV related information. The cannabis media can be somewhat lazy, and in this case has become an echo chamber for the ideas espoused in this article, whether they are correct or not. This article may not be correct with respect to the effects of pure THCV. It's notable that the Sportscar article was originally posted mid 2014, so it's kind of outdated.

I am no longer affiliated with Steep Hill. I left in December 2015. I did however test with them for long while, since they were the only lab that was able to quantitate THCVA, and that's obviously critical to analyzing fresh plant material high in THCV. Nowadays, the THCVA standards are commercially available, so other labs have added this analyte.

All of the older tests of high THCV strains dating back into the 80's or even the 90's were probably done with a gas chromatograph (i'm guessing), which would have degraded the amount of THCV overall since significant amounts of THCVA would decarboxylate, and also degrade into other various compounds. My point here is that liquid chromatograph is the preferred testing tech for this, so if you compare backwards in time, at some point you are no longer comparing apples to apples.

With respect to THCV and it's effects, it is generally correct that the less THC is present, the overall effects and duration of the high will be reduced. But THCV also dramatically alters the effects of THC and other compounds when it is present along with these in a concentrate or other mixture. This I know from significant amounts of personal experience. I try not bias other people experiences, so I'll leave it at that and hopefully some of you may end up trying it and providing untainted feedback.

Here is some random guy on Reddit who bought my product before CA state licensing kicked in.

https://www.reddit.com/r/eldertrees/...ghthcv_strain/


Here is a link to my site.

www.californiacannabinoids.com

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Old 09-20-2018, 01:31 PM #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cacannabinoids View Post
Well your BS radar must need retuning.
"26% total THCV and 35% total THC"

THC high in the extreme, and THCV even more extreme? Not only that but breeding a plant with BOTH? That claim is soooooo stupid.

It so tough to get THC to increase to that point, that it can be said it is accidental. And you claim to not only do that, but to also have increased a rare compound to the heights you claim AT THE SAME TIME!!

My radar is perfectly tuned. I know a con and scam when I see one. Yours is pretty easy to spot.

So fuckoff and go peddle your Bre-X shares somewhere else.
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Old 09-20-2018, 04:26 PM #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TychoMonolyth View Post
"26% total THCV and 35% total THC"

THC high in the extreme, and THCV even more extreme? Not only that but breeding a plant with BOTH? That claim is soooooo stupid.

It so tough to get THC to increase to that point, that it can be said it is accidental. And you claim to not only do that, but to also have increased a rare compound to the heights you claim AT THE SAME TIME!!

My radar is perfectly tuned. I know a con and scam when I see one. Yours is pretty easy to spot.
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So fuckoff and go peddle your Bre-X shares somewhere else.
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He clearly states concentrate/extract.

I think the Dougs Varin was around 7% thcv 6%thc in the flowering tops.

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Old 09-20-2018, 05:30 PM #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TychoMonolyth View Post
"26% total THCV and 35% total THC"

THC high in the extreme, and THCV even more extreme? Not only that but breeding a plant with BOTH? That claim is soooooo stupid.

It so tough to get THC to increase to that point, that it can be said it is accidental. And you claim to not only do that, but to also have increased a rare compound to the heights you claim AT THE SAME TIME!!

My radar is perfectly tuned. I know a con and scam when I see one. Yours is pretty easy to spot.
View Image
So fuckoff and go peddle your Bre-X shares somewhere else.
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It's not like I don't have about a million test results. LOL. As was claimed, we are talking concentrates here. Most the the DV cuts are in the approx 7% THC and 7% THCV range.

I have no idea what Bre-X is, but understand that you are really just totally wrong on this one.
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Old 09-20-2018, 05:50 PM #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_Skunkman View Post
If you want to eliminate any effects that the terpenes may contribute to the THC/THCV flowers or concentrate, you need to try 100% pure THC and 100% THCV in different ratios to find proof that the THCV is making the THC effects stronger or better.
I have done this with 12 subjects and none reported that THCV made THC stronger in fact they all reported the opposite. These were double blind tests.

If the effects you reported "may not be correct with respect to the effects of pure THCV" then where did the effects come from? I would guess terpenes.

We did our testing with both HPLC and GC, I prefer GC as that is closer to what a smoker gets as the heat of smoking does destroy some of the Cannabinoids, similar to what a GC does to analysis of the Cannabinoids. With oral THCV an HPLC might be better, as long as the THCV is not THCVA as the acid forms of the Cannabinoids may and do have different effects from the neutral Cannabinoids like THC or THCV. We did test both THCVA and THCV neither helped make THC stronger or better, we only did smoking, or vaping in a Volcano tests. We did not do oral tests. Our testing was done around 2000.

I think you are presuming it was the THCV that "dramatically alters the effects of THC and other compounds when it is present along with these in a concentrate or other mixture."
I suggest you try 100% pure THC with 100% pure THCV and then report the results, we found the more THCV the less strong the THC effects were.

I am not trying to say that THCV has no medical use, I am refering to recreational use.
For example CBD modifies THC but not in a positive way for most folks that want to get higher.
CBD delays onset of the THC effects, reduces peak experiences, and makes the reduced effects last longer. Some like this but it does not make THC stronger. THCV is similar.
When we developed THCV only varieties the higher the THCV and the less THC the worse the smoke was for recreational use, we all hated the THCV only varieites they were like smoking hemp. They did have almost a 100 to 1 ratio of THCV to THC, much higher in THCV and much much lower in THC then your variety. Even a concentrate would be less the 1% THC.
We did get high from THCV/THC varieties that were closer to 1:1 but you also get high if you smoke 1:1 CBD/THC varieties but no one or few think CBD makes THC stronger or better for recreational use unless THC only varieites do get them to high and paranoid, and they use the CBD/THC to prevent that. That I understand, as long as they do not claim that CBD gets them higher.

On your WWW site you say:
"THCV Is Different From the Stuff That Gets You "High"
In small amounts, THCV in its pure form is not psychoactive - it's different from ∆9THC, which is the main psychoactive component of most cannabis products."


I agree but also say THCV in larger amounts also does not get you high.

When you said on your WWW site: "THCV : The Unicorn of Cannabinoids
THCV is one of the rarest cannabinoids in the market today. According to a licensed California lab, out of 100,000 samples, only a single strain ever tested over 3% THCV: this unique varietal expresses a 1:1 ratio of THCA:THCVA - something never before experienced by the modern cannabis consumer. THCV is the next frontier in cannabinoids."


The lab may well say that but I developed a THCV variety from scratch that was over 10% and with almost no THC more then a decade before this. We licensed the variety to GW Pharmaceuticals.
-SamS

I'm not really arguing with you. We spoke on the phone once in 2008, although you may not recall. At the time we agreed that Sigma THC standards were off the mark. Anyhow,

On the psychoactivity of THCV,

There is obviously this published study which has been around. You don't hear me arguing that it gets you "higher."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26577065

I would add that 10 or 12 subjects for a DBP study is a bit on the low side. I am certain though that THCV itself impacts the physiological response to THC when present. I absolutely have tried pure THC and THCV in a mixture. I have never said it increases the high (since I almost sense you are responding as if I said that). It does however change it. I don't think this is particularly surprising given that it is a CB1 receptor antagonist. If you are saying that you don't think THC feels different in an entourage with THCV, then it feels when consumed alone, in that case we have a disagreement.

But not every cannabinoid need get you high anyway.

On the website, the "Unicorn" statement and claim was not actually written by me (the developer just put it there), and the lab statement will be removed, since even when I was CEO we saw at least a few different high THCV strains above 3%.
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