Off the shelf retail store screw-in LED and CFL bulb comparisons

SuperBadGrower said:

Indeed white leds are made by converting blue leds 440-470 nm through a layer of phosphor. Most are just blue when you take away that layer. Why are red diodes used in that particular one? Who knows. But I can bet you $100 that it's not to make them better, lol*. Maybe they used a batch of refuse "grow light" pcbs and covered them with the plastic. Maybe they were able to find out a way to somehow cheap out even more, using red diodes and less phosphor, or whatever material is used for the cheapest color conversion on the planet. (Lord knows what they use to color the dome, it could be done with urine)

*No disdain that's just the name of the game here; none of these bulb makers will ever go above 100 lm/w until the energy label requires them to. But they can always strive to make them cheaper (which is great)

Click to expand...

Im thinking maybe they used one red led with abunch of whites to make a red spectrum bulb

I will post the bulb that didnt turn colors...if you want. its not great value brand.

Drop That Sound said:

Terpene- Did you use polycarbonate\lexan, like plexi glass? Or was it just some kind of thicker and softer acrylic?..



The reason I ask is, I'm scared to blast over 40 holes through an expensive 3'x4' sheet of thin plexi glass, without cracking it. Even if I leave the protective film on, and add tape over the holes first, it sounds sketchy.

The plexi glass would look extra cool with my current project i'm working on. A see through box to show off the wiring and SILs.

I would order some 1/4" corian solid surface instead, but covid has the warehouses shut down so I can't get a sheet.

Click to expand...

Drop That Sound said:

I'll be drilling a total of 74 holes over 2 panels, so I know plywood or hard tempered wall boards would be the easiest and cheapest choice, and I could do it with one hole saw. Also skin it later with FRP or plastic wall panel material, or simply paint it, etc.

Metal sheeting is probably the best material wise, being the lightest. Still, kind of expensive though. And will wear out many hole saws in no time, with that many holes, that are too small to cut with tin snips. It would also act as an extra heat sink in my case, because i'm gluing the SIL globe side rims directly to the panel with holes.

Click to expand...

So I've used a few different plastic-ish products - mostly cause they're what I had lying around from previous projects.



Clear lexan is in my veg cab, and its a pain in the ass to cut. It loads up on the fine blade in the circular saw, so it tends to fling molten chunks of plastic everywhere. Its slightly more brittle, but the panel I used is a 3/8" so, its still pretty tough. The clear lexan does show the work behind it well, so if you did chrome vanity strips you could show people the guts of the operation, but clear also means that light blocking on the exhaust vets will need to be on point than an opaque panel.



I *think* my flowering cabinets are made from Corian. I honestly walked into a plastic shop and said "what do you have that cuts like wood, is semi transparent white and comes in 1/4-1/2" thickness?" Sorry I don't know more, honestly all I cared about is that it cut easily. Initially, I walked in asking for acrylic and they told me a 2'x4' panel in that thickness would be like 150$ so I asked for cheaper options. If it helps at all, the product I used was like 30-35$ for a 2'x4' 3/8" panel.

As for going into the material with a hole saw - I sat it on a mess of spent 2"x4" remnants and started drilling with reckless abandon, so theres no need to be ultra careful at that thickness. I will admit, 1/2" (in my taller flowering cab) was overkill and weighs a ton, 3/8" is more than thick enough.

Using plywood should work great, especially if your cabinet doesn't have the lights screwed to the roof, so you can remove them, set them on top of the wood and trace the lights with a sharpie, so you get your measurements exact. I was using clear material so I could push the panel up against the lights without removing them, trace the bulbs and cut the panels.

I would be a little hesitant to use metal, primarily cause its conductive and would also tend to radiate the heat you're pulling through the air cooled hood back into the grow space. Probably only a degree, but as long as we're bench racing - you get what I am saying. On the other hand, I am a SUCKER for stainless steel, textured copper, diamond plate, etc. so if you don't care - do it and claim the title of manliest air cooled SIL hood.

Thanks!

3/8'' Lexan I would totally feel more comfortable with, being thicker and less chance of cracks, but it will cost a fortune to make two 3x4' hanging boxes out of.

I was gonna make a rigid frame first, and panel it with the thinner lexan\plexiglass that is only $40 for a 3x4' pre cut sheet, and available now even during the shutdown at home depot.

And as far as using metal\ducting, I would probably add a thin layer of foam insulation. To help with any condensation or heat transfer, if needed.

Also, not sure why all you guys are worried about metal, almost all the non DIY lights I own are built in metal frames. Hoods, ballasts, COBS/ LEDS, you name it lol. The exposed SIL chips would be outside of the box anyway.

I would of coarse add metal framing to help the hoods have some structure too. And insulate all the wiring.

I have some ducting and fittings already, maybe i'll make a small full metal hood, just like my concept picture.

Oh and ya diamond plate would look awesome! I'm looking up costs now.

Fiberglass and gelcoat over plywood would look great, and be easy to clean.

I guess I might as well try all the different materials, make a bunch of mini SIL hoods.

Heck, even cardboard can come in handy when trying to make prototypes for testing.

Drop That Sound said:

Thanks!

3/8'' Lexan I would totally feel more comfortable with, being thicker and less chance of cracks, but it will cost a fortune to make two 3x4' hanging boxes out of.

Click to expand...

They use Lexan to make bulletproof glass.
It would be a bitch to saw holes though.

Drop That Sound said:

Heck, even cardboard can come in handy when trying to make prototypes for testing.

Click to expand...

Cardboard is plentiful and makes great stencils.

You can put grease pencil (or lipstick) on the rim of your SILs to press into the cardboard to make a stencil.

Ya for sure I would'nt make it through but a few holes before dulling out a hole saw bit. At least it wouldn't crack though. If I do end up trying to use a thinner sheet of lexan (more like 1/16th thick) I would probably sandwich it between plywood anyway, before I drilled the holes. Like I said even one hole you risk cracking let alone multiple holes on the same panel.


Ya I make cardboard templates all the time. In my case I just mark out and cut holes in the panel first, and work from there getting the SILs installed, wont really need a template.. I was joking though, about making the whole box out of it, with some duct tape too. For testing air flow and whatnot, before making the actual box. Or was I joking?

If I had a smaller micro sized grow tent/space, with a passive intake system, I would probably just use a shallow plastic storage container. Could cut the holes for the SILs in the lid, and mount them in the bottom of the bin. Then add a round duct collar or boot to the bottom or side, flip it upside down, and hang it up.

Don't forget to cover it all in a layer of metal tape, so the plastic doesn't heat up.

Why not use an aluminum street sign..easy cut thru..instant heatsink..or aluminum tin foil baking pan..the cheap ones at dollar stores.

Legalcdn said:

...or aluminum tin foil baking pan..the cheap ones at dollar stores.

Click to expand...

I hear that...

Easy cut... $1.25 for the cookie sheet

SuperBadGrower said:

Indeed white leds are made by converting blue leds 440-470 nm through a layer of phosphor. Most are just blue when you take away that layer. ...

Click to expand...

Yes, thank you, they are blue! Uv is for cfls, silly me.
Man, I was too long out of the game and now I'm confusing things...

OH MY GOD.
i cannot upload because of my firefox pricacy browser ...will try later. i switched to FEIT hundred watters and used channel locks to take off the globes...unbelievable difference. i will have to raise my light and get some more of these. i just bought four and i should have bought out the store. the difference between this and the sylvania with the globes on? unreal man unreal......lol

The SIL arms race continues...

I just discovered that LED A21 (slightly bigger than A19) bulbs are made in 23w. This would be a 150-200w equivalent bulb with a lumen output (globe on) of 2500. Assuming about 4000 with the globe off from what we've seen in this thread.

Kindeep E26 LED Bulbs, 150W-200W Incandescent Bulb Equivalent, 23W, Warm White 3000K, A21 LED Light Bulbs, 2500 Lumens, Not-Dimmable 6 Pack

You're looking at $25 for a six pack on Amazon. The question is, whos going to be the first person to do it...

Edit: I couldn't help myself. Six 3000k and six 5000k have been ordered.

i was looking at the kindeep the other night..didnt pull the trigger and they dissappeared from my list ? didnt know if or how you could get those globes off?
alos looked a the sansi 16watt A19 2000 lumens but they have a weird globe too.

We learn not only about weed here, we learn about eletricity, bricolage and etc. Great post.

Drop That Sound said:

Same here. I already thought about using some 4x4" vinyl PVC fence post sleeves, but I already have plans for a NFT hydro system with them, and they cost like 16-18 a piece. Not bad really, but I was holding one up, and they are kind of heavy. Could get two 4' strips out of a full 8ft'er. Sounds like you got a plan, hope to check it out soon.


I may just use the 4x8 dry erase board I got for $8, and make my 2 3x4' panels a few inches shorter. I think i'm gonna burn through hole saws in that too, going through the aluminum skins almost 80 times.

We'll see, might just use plywood as well.

Click to expand...

4x4 trunking gives good access.


Not transparent but I'm not sure why people are working towards that. Metal trunking is cheaper, but if you want to keep hot and cold air separate, you can't put a conductive wall between them.

Lets ignore my cobs. It's all about the trunking

I have also used square plastic ducting. Which is really very cheap. I pay about £4 a meter, for 55x110mm section iirc. That 110 is deep enough and the 55 wide enough if the lamp hangs out a little.

Or some 5x5' vinyl fence post sleeves. (the 4x4" are 6' long, the 5x5"s are 8').

To fit those 23w SILs Terpene is talkin about..

Vroom vroom!

I'll try the metal duct idea out soon.

Im not making the holes bigger to suck air around all the bulbs though, im gluing the SILs plastic rim to the metal itself. The Circular LED chips sticking down through the holes.

Then cut the metal screw end off and hard wire them without base sockets. Maybe even drill extra holes around the plastic bulb housing, so even more air flows through the inside of the there too. Then seal the center of the chip (where the 2 spiky pins are) with more rtv silicone.

That way the hood itself is completely sealed and can be on a closed loop, so you could run it in a sealed room if you wanted with the added air cooling to help out the AC, and the bulbs stay cool for a longer life. SILs get pretty hot!

Drop That Sound said:

I'll try the metal duct idea out soon.

Im not making the holes bigger to suck air around all the bulbs though, im gluing the SILs plastic rim to the metal itself. The Circular LED chips sticking down through the holes.

Then cut the metal screw end off and hard wire them without base sockets. Maybe even drill extra holes around the plastic bulb housing, so even more air flows through the inside of the there too. Then seal the center of the chip (where the 2 spiky pins are) with more rtv silicone.

That way the hood itself is completely sealed and can be on a closed loop, so you could run it in a sealed room if you wanted with the added air cooling to help out the AC, and the bulbs stay cool for a longer life. SILs get pretty hot!

Click to expand...

At that point, you may just consider a COB build as you're basically creating COBs out of the SILs. There are a lot more options in terms of color / drivers / etc if you want to go the full custom route versus screwing in whatever is sold at your local home store.

Careful with vinyl and heat creating off-gassing issues. Without venting outdoor, the buildup of VOCs can cause big problems with plants, and unwanted problems with people.

150w raised the cooling air 18c in my example. PVC cabling should be limited to 70c. Leaving a reasonable working window, and I imagine many of us will send the air straight through a carbon. It's not like having a new carpet or painting the walls.

Early tents are PVC lined, but the paint on the poles poisoned peoples plants. Like wall paint and carpet, I'm guessing formaldehyde.

If the extract fan fails, we could be having a whole different conversation.

276w of 23w 3000k / 5000k LEDs:



Pros:

• They're brighter. I would say about 25-30% more than I am used to seeing over the 15w units. Light meter readings at the same distances are up about 200-300 on the swing meter.
• They're easy to de-globe. Large channel locks, grab and slight twist of the wrist. No silicone inside, just 4 small tabs holding the globes.
• They have a little lip that sticks down past the diodes. Good for protecting the leds from careless hands.
• No exposed metal prongs. It's nice not to get minorly electrocuted by your grow setup - again, careless hands.

Cons:

• They're bigger. The lights are about 1-1.5cm taller than the standard bulb units, even with globes removed.
• They have a little lip that sticks down past the diodes. Somewhat funnels the light, so you can't grow right up into the bulbs.
• Cheap plastic housing. The Feit units use a heavier weight material that feels sturdier in my hand.

At the end of the day, I am happy with my purchase, though I will admit, we've entered complete overkill territory (39.4w / sqft). I am letting them run for an hour or so before I go open the cabinet to check temps. I imagine I added a degree of heat over what I saw before (2 fan cab is about 3 degrees over ambient) with the air cooled venting, but we'll see.