27% Imidacloprid, Acephate 97, Avid, Eagle 20 rates?

Mountain Sprout · May 23, 2018

Dirt Bag said:
I'm not "pushing" anything, Chief. I am defending my statement. Believe what you want. Perhaps you should try contacting Bayer yourself before making hollow statements. I am simply relating information I have obtained. Imidacloprid is safe to use before flowering. Period.
I suppose the millions and millions of people using it on their gardens, fruit, and nut trees are eating "contaminated" foods.
What evidence do you have to support your claims of contamination? Yep. That's right. None.
Why are you pushing not using it so hard? Is OP your dealer or something?

First, you don’t smoke fruits and nuts. This stuff is not allowed on tobacco plants. 2nd, repeating a statement is not really defending a statement. You really aren’t qualified to say it is safe (period). You can say “I think it is safe” and growers can then decide if you are trustworthy or just trying to make yourself feel better for poisoning customers. Would you tell people your product is sprayed with Bayer or DuPont chemicals?

OP my dealer? Of course not, I’m an organic grower.

Anyway, I just wanted newbies to know that your claims are not true. Later.

Dirt Bag · May 23, 2018

Mountain Sprout said:
First, you don’t smoke fruits and nuts. This stuff is not allowed on tobacco plants. 2nd, repeating a statement is not really defending a statement. You really aren’t qualified to say it is safe (period). You can say “I think it is safe” and growers can then decide if you are trustworthy or just trying to make yourself feel better for poisoning customers. Would you tell people your product is sprayed with Bayer or DuPont chemicals?

OP my dealer? Of course not, I’m an organic grower.

Anyway, I just wanted newbies to know that your claims are not true. Later.[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=54855&pictureid=1550473&thumb=1]View Image[/url]
[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=54855&pictureid=1486461&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

Bwahahahaha!

Tobacco. Really? JFC dude. Imidacloprid is made from tobacco! And no, I don't smoke fruits and vegetables. I don't smoke anything. I don't have "customers" either. Smoking anything is so much more harmful that I don't even have an anecdotal simile to compare.
"An organic grower". Good for you.

But for maybe the third time in this thread, in the real world there are many (most) who can't grow giant fields of trees. Most are still restricted to growing in a concealed, strictly confined space, don't have the luxuries provided by the freedom some now possess, and need real results. As you so conveniently pointed out, people smoke. In my humble opinion, and that of most of the scientific community, that in itself poses multitudes more health risks than the risks of residual imidacloprid. Yeah man, smoking has killed more people than all pesticides throughout history combined. In fact, more than anything, other than old age.
So as not to just "repeat my statement", the precise conversion went about like this:
Me:... so I can use imidacloprid at the concentration you recommend on the plants I plan to consume ten weeks prior to harvest and will be fine?
Bayer Bio Engineer: That's correct. The time between application and consumption is from seven to forty five days, depending upon which plant.
Me: no matter how I plan to consume them? Raw, cooked, dried, baked, smoked, snorted or injected?
Bayer engineer lady: Ha hahaha. Yes. You're funny. That isn't actually relevant, though.
Me: could I add this to a hydroponic reservoir?
Bayer lady: we haven't done any research with imidacloprid in hydroponics so I can't say.
Me: safety aside, if it were added to a large quantity of water that was fed to plants through the roots, just as in soil, would it theoretically be effective? Or would diluting diminished the effect? Again, I'm just speaking hypothetically and am looking for your opinion, not test results, as your opinion would carry the most weight with me.
Bayer lady: we do not advocate the use of any of our products not in accordance with its labeling.

That's just to the best of my recollection

Here's facts.

https://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/archive/imidacloprid.html

Here's more information:

https://hortnews.extension.iastate.edu/2012/3-21/imidacloprid.html

Yes bro, I would gladly tell people that I use Bayer products. Why not? They're a rather reputable company. I also use Bayer products on my dog. My mom fed me Bayer baby aspirin when I was young as did I to my children and we're all still fine. Except for my mom. She died from smoking.

Remember back in the 70's when "organic growers" were all against hydroponics because they believed that it used chemicals!? Bwahahahaha!

Something tells me that you probably also have a beard and a man bun, wear suspenders, and don't vaccinate your children. Amirite?
JUST KIDDING! Don't get your tofu in a knot.

Seriously dude, do some research. Imidacloprid is not bad for people, just bees. What evidence do you have that it's bad? Because from all I can see, it's not.

Mountain Sprout · May 23, 2018

Wow. You got me with that Bayer aspirin thing. It’s cool that you don’t smoke or sell but maybe you should have mentioned that before recommending systemic poison to smokers and sellers. Also, Imidacloprid is based on the nicotine molecule but it is not naturally occurring in the tobacco plant and it is certainly not made from tobacco nor is it labeled for tobacco or anything smokeable. As for your conversation with the “engineer”, well, it speaks for itself. So please, crawl back in your basement and keep on not smoking or selling your chemmy bud.

P.s. don’t call me dude, bro.

MagniKhan · May 23, 2018

Dirt Bag said:
Bwahahahaha! Tobacco. Really? JFC dude. Imidacloprid is made from tobacco! And no, I don't smoke fruits and vegetables. I don't smoke anything. I don't have "customers" either. Smoking anything is so much more harmful that I don't even have an anecdotal simile to compare.
"An organic grower". Good for you. But for maybe the third time in this thread, in the real world there are many (most) who can't grow giant fields of trees. Most are still restricted to growing in a concealed, strictly confined space, don't have the luxuries provided by the freedom some now possess, and need real results. As you so conveniently pointed out, people smoke. In my humble opinion, and that of most of the scientific community, that in itself poses multitudes more health risks than the risks of residual imidacloprid. Yeah man, smoking has killed more people than all pesticides throughout history combined. In fact, more than anything, other than old age.
So as not to just "repeat my statement", the precise conversion went about like this:
Me:... so I can use imidacloprid at the concentration you recommend on the plants I plan to consume ten weeks prior to harvest and will be fine?
Bayer Bio Engineer: That's correct. The time between application and consumption is from seven to forty five days, depending upon which plant.
Me: no matter how I plan to consume them? Raw, cooked, dried, baked, smoked, snorted or injected?
Bayer engineer lady: Ha hahaha. Yes. You're funny. That isn't actually relevant, though.
Me: could I add this to a hydroponic reservoir?
Bayer lady: we haven't done any research with imidacloprid in hydroponics so I can't say.
Me: safety aside, if it were added to a large quantity of water that was fed to plants through the roots, just as in soil, would it theoretically be effective? Or would diluting diminished the effect? Again, I'm just speaking hypothetically and am looking for your opinion, not test results, as your opinion would carry the most weight with me.
Bayer lady: we do not advocate the use of any of our products not in accordance with its labeling.

That's just to the best of my recollection

Here's facts.

https://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/archive/imidacloprid.html

Here's more information:

https://hortnews.extension.iastate.edu/2012/3-21/imidacloprid.html

Yes bro, I would gladly tell people that I use Bayer products. Why not? They're a rather reputable company. I also use Bayer products on my dog. My mom fed me Bayer baby aspirin when I was young as did I to my children and we're all still fine. Except for my mom. She died from smoking.

Remember back in the 70's when "organic growers" were all against hydroponics because they believed that it used chemicals!? Bwahahahaha!
Something tells me that you probably also have a beard and a man bun, wear suspenders, and don't vaccinate your children. Amirite?
JUST KIDDING! Don't get your tofu in a knot.

Seriously dude, do some research. Imidacloprid is not bad for people, just bees. What evidence do you have that it's bad? Because from all I can see, it's not.

Guys like this "Dirt Bag" (his handle, and probably a warning) are why you want to KNOW what is being put on the bud you smoke.

Newbies put your faith in those that have long and researchable history here when it come to advice on what to use on your plants. Like this one....

Granger2 said:
Spraying Azasol in veg and in the 1st week of flower has kept me mite free for about 3 years. Don't poison yourself and others. Good luck. -granger

Do your research people.

Be Safe,
MK :ying:

Only Ornamental · May 23, 2018

Dirt Bag said:
Bwahahahaha! �� Tobacco. Really? JFC dude. Imidacloprid is made from tobacco! ...
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Seriously dude, do some research. Imidacloprid is not bad for people, just bees. What evidence do you have that it's bad? Because from all I can see, it's not. ...[/FONT]

If this is what the dude from Bayer told you, then I most definitively wouldn't trust that one. It is a so called neonicotinoid, a fully synthetic class of compounds which does not exist in nature and which at best (like in the case of imidacloprid) shows a structural similarity to the aromatic part of nicotine.
Based on the structure (BTW, I learned those things at university and did my PhD in an organic chemistry lab for natural compounds), imidacloprid is really dangerous if smoked. Sure, it all comes down to how much one consumes and if that bit more nitrosamines and the like besides all the TSNAs in tobacco smoke make it any worse.
Imidacloprid is considered safe enough to be used on pets and is more toxic to insects but less to vertebrates than other common insecticides which allow for a lower dose. Still, it's very persistent indoors because it's main breakdown pathway is light-dependent. Besides, my dogs usually don't get it cause the structure is really awful and the environmental impact nothing I'd like to support. It is a suspected endocrine disruptor, possibly mutagenic and metabolites could be carcinogenic -> it's the kind of structure which doesn't even get considered as something to work on in the pharmaceutical industry but on plants, on those you may ditch whatever dirt you want *wretch*. The negative effect on bees and other insects is regarded as important enough that the European Union decided earlier this year to ban imidacloprid and two other related compounds except for their use in closed greenhouses.
Besides that: Do some research yourself and you'd find out that imidacloprid is, compared to other insecticides, fairly well water soluble, readily plant available through root assimilation and (for my taste) too stable in water. Hence, in theory imidacloprid is suitable for hydroponics as long as it doesn't get any light and if you don't use a UV sterilisation unit. On the other hand, there is a reason why Bayer never did any hydroponics research with that compound! It's A: you use more than actually needed due dilution and B: flush down a lot when you change your rez and that ain't good at all. Cause imidacloprid is readily assimilated after foliar spray and at least partially mobile within plants, there's really no point in adding it to the rez. But from where I stand, there's no point at all using imidacloprid and the like for private reasons and most certainly not on consumables. If you or anyone else wants to treat freshly acquired cuts, then that'll be okay in my books but stuff which has never been tested under comparative conditions especially if added after flip, no bueno.

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27% Imidacloprid, Acephate 97, Avid, Eagle 20 rates?

Mountain Sprout

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Dirt Bag

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Mountain Sprout

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MagniKhan

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Only Ornamental

Spiritually inspired agnostic mad scientist

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