Roadside Drug Testing Experiment

25.1.18 Update

it was naive of me to think that i could simply buy swab tests to identify my limits to be 'legal' when operating my vehicle and using cannabis...

what i found:
australian standard for swab test = 25ng/mL and police test at 5 - 10 ng/mL
police test at lower ranges because too many people admitted to smoking cannabis during the testing process giving the cops too many 'false' negatives.
they test for the presence of the drugs and don't need to prove impairment so any amount is too much.
there is now a growing push for the police to test for other illegal and prescription drugs...

anyway going to test at 12ng/mL to see if i can identify a pattern that will keep me 'safe' but given the above information i am looking to seriously modify how/when i medicate...

30.1.18

well this is a bust, can't get a positive result at all...so no way to tell what will/won't work. the only thing i know for sure is that swab tests are highly unreliable...bugger...


ORIGINAL POST
ever since the introduction RDT i have been very concerned of being busted and losing my licence. the loss of my licence will have far reaching negative consequences on my employment, financial independence and family life. news stories of people testing positive after extended periods of time (12 hours +) had me worried as i usually have a 6 - 12 hr wait before getting behind the wheel.

i have taken it upon myself to better define the limitations that apply to me in my environment and usage habits. i purchased 10 saliva THC test swabs (25ng/mL) to better understand what i need to do to be clean if i am ever tested. over the next few days/weeks i will test myself in different situations: time periods and usage rates. the use of masking agents will also be looked into to test the numerous suggestions floating around to see what works and what doesn't.

to be clear: i don't drive without a minimum of a 6 hr break from my last vape.


i use a SB Mighty portable vapouriser and my daily usage is a minimum of 2 loads with some weekend blow outs...fairly active lifestyle and about 4 kgs over weight.


i will post all results on this page to make it easy to find.


UPDATES:
Vinegar mouthwash 1:2 (vinegar:water) organic apple cider vinegar, swirled around mouth and gargled x 3 (undiluted vinegar will dissolve tooth enamel)

Interesting thread.....

I'll be keeping an eye on it.

okay time for test #2

invalid

work called...got tomorrow off...time for more testing...

Vinegar mouthwash 1:2 (vinegar:water) organic apple cider vinegar, swirled around mouth and gargled x 3 (undiluted vinegar will dissolve tooth enamel)

invalid

brilliant!
thanks for sharing your results here, my man!
/even in legal states,being "under the influence" can still be a crime or barrier to employment
so this is of interest to all of us

can you tell us how the test you got works?
/like do you swab the inside of your mouth or spin into a receptacle?
you say you vape, does method of ingestion makes a difference?
/like smoking a fat greasy joint leaves more residue than say a vape?

i once head packets of mustard could beat a breath-a lizer , it seems vinegar cleanses the mouth?

will this is a turn out...i can't get a positive reading???

i just had one load,waited 30 min and got a very faint negative waited another 20 min and got a very clear negative?????

possible that vaping is different...gonna have to find a way to smoke some now and find out...this could be very interesting?

something is wrong here, just smoked (YUCK) a cone had a small sip of water, waited 15 mins and still get negative...

looks like my swab tests are not working....hope the cops are using these.....they are NOT though...

More tests on the way, better accuracy and way more expensive since they are 5 drugs not just THC...

BTW does anyone know to what level of THC the police test to? i can't find any reliable info.

Wow, I'd read about this, but didn't know they were actually going through with it. I've heard mumbling of this being introduced here in NZ too, but have yet to ever hear of or see it in use.

I personally try not to smoke these days before driving, mainly because I ride a motorbike 90% of the time, but i used to not care at all and I've never had an accident while under the influence. That's in no way a recommendation to do it though, I'm also a pretty lucky person lol.

What I could find in regards to the levels; "A saliva drug test is deemed positive under the current Australian oral drug testing standards (AS 4760) for readings of or above 25 nanograms per milligram of THC (the active ingredient in cannabis) or 50 nanograms per milligram for methamphetamine, including MDMA."

I'd love to see the stats on how many more people they're 'catching' driving stoned (or tweaking) as after a bit of research and looking at ozzieAI's posts, the tests seem very unreliable. I wonder how they'd hold up in court?

It seems like the difference compared to urine tests is they're looking for the active drug, not it's metabolites. Maybe try making some edibles and doing a test?

after a few emails back and forth with the supplier of the drug tests the conclusion they drew is that i wasn't taking enough to reach to 25ng/mL cut off...really...

doing a bit more research i found that the police use the Drager Drug Test 5000 which tests down to 5ng/mL which is very low concentrations...no wonder so many people are getting busted. the new tests i have coming only go down to 12ng/mL. i can't find any tests of 5ng/ml only down to 10ng/mL and they are $70 each...

from what i have found there is no way for the general public to accurately assess their level of THC intoxication before they drive.

i will still go ahead with the new tests and see what results i get.

warning: if you are using saliva tests to check your THC levels before you drive then you are still leaving yourself exposed to police RDT as they can identify a much lower level of THC then you can.

What I could find in regards to the levels; "A saliva drug test is deemed positive under the current Australian oral drug testing standards (AS 4760) for readings of or above 25 nanograms per milligram of THC (the active ingredient in cannabis) or 50 nanograms per milligram for methamphetamine, including MDMA."

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i wish that was true...

(Edit)okay this seems legit from the link i posted below: they pretest at 25ng/mL and confirm at 10 ng/mL

here is what they use:
https://www.draeger.com/Corporate/C...pecial_2_drug_testing_the_trail_of_saliva.pdf

Furthermore, the latest saliva testing equipment, such as the Dräger DrugTest 5000 introduced in 2008, produces very reliable results. This device can detect very small quantities of active substances (THC: five nanograms per milliliter), and it pinpoints the time of drug consumption within a time window of up to eight hours, while only requiring a saliva sample volume of just 0.28 milliliters. “This makes it very easy to determine whether a person has taken one or more drugs recently and is still influenced by them,” says Dr. Stefan Steinmeyer, responsible for the subject matter of “Drug Testing”
at Dräger

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here is another link from the DEPARTMENT OF FORENSIC MEDICINE/Monash Uni
http://www.standards.org.au/OurOrga...rummer AS 4760 Workshop - 9 December 2013.pdf

this is turning into a real shit show...https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/police-drug-test-accuracy-in-doubt-ng-ya-324121

In September 2014, a NSW Police report found the machines were failing to pick up on positive readings for THC despite a positive initial roadside swab test and an admission from the driver they had used cannabis in the past 24 hours.

“This is a substantial rise from the negative detection rate with the superseded COZART instrument," the report said.

“Other police jurisdictions report similar pattern of negative results in respect to THC on the Draeger instrument.”

Queensland Police reported a similar issue about the same time and reduced the detection rate in the machine from 25ng per one millilitres of saliva to 5ng.

NSW followed suit and also adjusted their detection rate.

Despite the tweaking, in June last year, NSW Police acknowledged the machines were not “picking up THC 100% of the time”.

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hey mate. Do you know whether the THC detected in the saliva is from metabolites produced by the body, or from residue inside the mouth?

i was under the impression it was only residue that could be detected.... (so in other words, brush your teeth/tongue/mouth before driving...)

i've passed a roadside test coming home from the mardigrass festival at nimbin.... smoked a joint maybe an hour before driving, (after having a hotdog and a can of coke - which would have helped remove some residue) and was MOST DEFINATELY still high....

Adulterated rdt

Adulterated rdt

Hi Oz,
What about listing substances that can adulterate roadside drug testing as this is a war and we need ammo!
Recently I read hydrogen peroxide is good
Also have read vinegar too.
But I cannot confirm ,do you intend to test anything along these lines Oz?

Two mates both recently passed NSW roadside after smoking within 10 or 20 min of a roadside test. One used Listerine strips and the other bit the side out of an orange, skin and all, as soon as he spotted them..

It sounds like they have these tests as roadblocks where you have to stop and they administer sobriety tests to everyone? Doesn't happen in my part of the US except once in a while near the ghetto on winter holidays. Usually the jails are so full they don't have room for extra visitors.
I don't worry much about that kind of thing because I'd have to commit a traffic infraction to get pulled over. Then I'd have to either act suspicious or have the car reek of ganja. I go with politely hostile with cops and they assume I'm sober.
My assumption, at least with the tests here, is that if I'd smoked within the last week I'd come out positive. Since it hangs around in your system for so long.
There's a lot of questions about the legality of the tests and what the threshold is. There's evidence that regular smokers drive as well as sober people, that it's not equal to driving drunk unless you're an inexperienced smoker. As the testing tech improves the legal defenses improve.
Very curious as to your results and what types of tests you're sampling. Right now I'm wondering what it takes to get a positive! Maybe how suspicious the officer is?

i was under the impression it was only residue that could be detected.... (so in other words, brush your teeth/tongue/mouth before driving...)

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yes this is correct

What about listing substances that can adulterate roadside drug testing as this is a war and we need ammo!
Recently I read hydrogen peroxide is good
Also have read vinegar too.
But I cannot confirm ,do you intend to test anything along these lines Oz?

Click to expand...

yes i want to know as well: vinegar and hydrogen peroxide are the 2 most popular i have heard about but as rex mentioned coke and other high sugar/acid drinks may also work.

Two mates both recently passed NSW roadside after smoking within 10 or 20 min of a roadside test. One used Listerine strips and the other bit the side out of an orange, skin and all, as soon as he spotted them..

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that is good to know especially since the NSW police test at 5ng/mL, hope i have enough tests to try something along these lines

It sounds like they have these tests as roadblocks where you have to stop and they administer sobriety tests to everyone?

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that's exactly how they work..i have dodged that bullet twice now as they were full with cars as i was waved passed...

Very curious as to your results and what types of tests you're sampling. Right now I'm wondering what it takes to get a positive!

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me too. testing at 25ng/mL seems pointless as it is 5x less sensitive than the police test at...and i couldn't get a positive with 2 loads of the mighty and smoking a cone. when my new tests arrive (12ng/mL) i will have 6 opportunities to test what times you need to wait to be clear was well as a couple of 'masking' agents.

Rdt

Rdt

so how much is 5 Ng ?
Sounds like a very small amount ?
So how is Ng's of thc and impairment correlated?
Or is it just a case of negative or positive?

Thanks very much for this thread it's been about 10 years since they introduced these in Victoria right around the time I got my license, and I resent potentially losing my job my life essentially everything every time I get behind the wheel when they don't even test for all types of Benzodiazapams, Opiates etc or the myriad other drugs that can hinder

I personally think that chronic cannabis users are safer on the road with a saturated endo cannabinoid system. I do not remember what it would be like to drive 6 hours after my last hoot but I honestly think it would be more dangerous.