At least the other people in this thread have respect.
It really shows maturity level, conversing in a forum, with no physical barriers to assinine behavior.
You fucking stupid idiot brain
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Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?
- Thread starter k33ftr33z
- Start date
- Status
At least the other people in this thread have respect.
It really shows maturity level, conversing in a forum, with no physical barriers to assinine behavior.
You fucking stupid idiot brain
hahahaha yup my rep is over as well what da hell lol
I am still waiting on what sugars this guy feeds his plants hey J yea i grow open reflector so i don;t lose nothing thru any glass
Iampolluted hey man if your happy skinning your plants then have at her , nothing wrong with taking few leafs off. But instead of that you can tuck them, try to leave most of the leaves on trust me.
Its already bin said that skinning slows plant growth you can;t get away from that so this means longer veg times for plants to heal them selfs and skimp forward till your next hack job and the process starts all over
here a plant with all leafs just look at them buds go right thru that leaf covered canvas and grow pretty healthy huh ????
Yo J here is one pic i found some lower bud sites etc still will post up some more
I am still waiting on what sugars this guy feeds his plants hey J yea i grow open reflector so i don;t lose nothing thru any glass
Iampolluted hey man if your happy skinning your plants then have at her , nothing wrong with taking few leafs off. But instead of that you can tuck them, try to leave most of the leaves on trust me.
Its already bin said that skinning slows plant growth you can;t get away from that so this means longer veg times for plants to heal them selfs and skimp forward till your next hack job and the process starts all over
here a plant with all leafs just look at them buds go right thru that leaf covered canvas and grow pretty healthy huh ????
Yo J here is one pic i found some lower bud sites etc still will post up some more
Attachments
iampolluted
Active member
yeah maybe we don't feed em sugars....i'm stoned and it's real fucking late. i admit i misspoke, sue me.
when a plant transports food nutrients such as glucose and amino acids from the leaves and to all other cells of the plant, it's still there weather there are small leaves or big 1's. there is no reason for the plant to store glucose in the leaves, which turns to starch, only to be released when it's needed if it's not needed? because it's not. this is why it rebounds quickly. it's a hard prune, nothing more. if you guys can't understand that, quit debating shit you've never tried.
you can't relate to the experience if you've never tried. it's speculation, and invalid as an argument.
when a plant transports food nutrients such as glucose and amino acids from the leaves and to all other cells of the plant, it's still there weather there are small leaves or big 1's. there is no reason for the plant to store glucose in the leaves, which turns to starch, only to be released when it's needed if it's not needed? because it's not. this is why it rebounds quickly. it's a hard prune, nothing more. if you guys can't understand that, quit debating shit you've never tried.
you can't relate to the experience if you've never tried. it's speculation, and invalid as an argument.
why would i try it when i am already achieving a pound dry per plant literally lets be logical here what are you achieving from stripping your plants ????? yield wise.
Are you even in the ball park range ????
you know you should be writing down what we fed you tonight trust me your yields would tri fold
iampolluted
Active member
ya know what? i don't have to convince you 2 of anything. i do what works for me. i don't have to defend my actions to a couple of guys who've never tried it and probably never will.
wow, you're smart...who gives a fuck? a smart man without experience is still only smart, not experienced, and can't comment on experience, only their regurgitated knowledge. it's like sleeping with 2 girls at once, until ya do, you have no fucking clue what it's like.
until you have experience in the method, every thing you say is just speculation as to what you THINK is right or proper. i've noticed neither 1 of ya have dropped a knowledge bomb in this thread because you can't. you've done nothing to further your argument other than post pics with 10" of bare stalks, and a decent scrog. we know you can do that well. so yeah whatever, go back to growing leaves and sticks along with your buds.
wow, you're smart...who gives a fuck? a smart man without experience is still only smart, not experienced, and can't comment on experience, only their regurgitated knowledge. it's like sleeping with 2 girls at once, until ya do, you have no fucking clue what it's like.
until you have experience in the method, every thing you say is just speculation as to what you THINK is right or proper. i've noticed neither 1 of ya have dropped a knowledge bomb in this thread because you can't. you've done nothing to further your argument other than post pics with 10" of bare stalks, and a decent scrog. we know you can do that well. so yeah whatever, go back to growing leaves and sticks along with your buds.
Here is a good example of well developed bottom growth. The structure, texture, trichome development, and density resemble upper nugs. You can see rays of unimpeded light on some of the buds. Not a single budding site has ever been removed from these clones.
Well developed bottoms? Those are still just little fluffy popcorn nugs. In other words shit that gets cut off after stretch, but you need well developed vigorous main shoots, otherwise all you'll have is weak spaced out nodes and you won't be able to cut them off, (they are all you have.
those plants could be sooooo much more developed for their respective age and current general size, instead they are hacked to pieces and left to veg longer than necessary.that goes for the post from bud buster below(a well suited name I suppose).
Here is a picture of what a plant should look like after 3.5 weeks veg, branchier than any of these defoliated plants, and significantly larger, but I'm sure ill yield less, right?
Notice how the old heads, some of the most respected growers on this site, warn against it....
Proceed at your own risk you've been warned by science and the word of old heads...
Yes proper pruning works, but pruning is not defoliation, stripping bottoms in dense sog or pulling a few fans from the top of the canopy is not defoliation.
If we know for sure it slows veg why would you want to do it in flower' do you really think it won't slow flower down.
Defoliation is a specific technique for specific circumstances;
slowing growth, reducing late flower and harvest time humidity, preventing mold.
Pruning will get you miles further, defoliation will slow you down, as evidenced by this whole thread.
And the ones that are heavily defoliated look really sad in respect to age/size when flowered.
You know........The best "sig" quote I`ve seen in a while is right above me from High Country........
We don`t have the right to keep anyone from voicing their opinions.......regardless of ours........
If you run rooted cuts straight 12/12 jampacked next to each other , monocrop , and dial your strains/varieties in a solid SOG setup to see how many more you can cram in under your lights footprint every run till they`re maxed out for sq ftg , then and only then will yas know there`s not a more efficient yield per setup/sq ftg.........
Jro`s mindset was with his BOG cut he stripped at day 21 and 45 for max lumen penetration down into his canopies that were lil over double normal amounts of cuts side by side that can`t HELP but increase yields if you think about it in the same sq ftg normally done at 128 plants @ 4 per sq ft on conventional 4 x 8 tables........
Plant numbers dictate yield in X amount of area under X amount of light as long as they don`t haveta compete for light and environment thus where the stripping came about to keep em from chokin each other out side by side in front and back of each other......ain`t rocket science....just good plant management...................
Stripping leaves off plants causes different things at different times in the plants life.......already posted my experience......knowing when to use it to your benefit means everything if you intend to try it.....
Plants get too big and strippin em shuts em down.........guaranteed...DHF..........
Now see........Those pics by !!! are indeed the way I stripped my Chem D`s @ day 21 during the stretch only leaving budsites , and it completely shut em down for at least a week........
Did it again @ day 45 and they shut down AGAIN...no trich production OR swellage and OMG did that piss me off.........took 12 weeks for a normally 10 week variety........
From what I`ve seen from the above pics completely "de-foliated' and taking 3 weeks to get backta pretty much the same size they were , cements my decision further that there`s a stunting of growth and recovery period "regardless" of the plant`s age , although I think smaller plants handle it better during the stretch and recover faster than more mature mid-sized plants like mine were...........
Respect Mike Ross for differentiating the terms of " calculated leaf cleanup" , rather than "completely" strippin them bitches nekkid like I did as in true defoliation....
I`d imagine that recovery would be faster with the selective and calculated taking of "some or most" of the fans and not all so as not ta shock the shit out of em.....
Evidently , this shit works well in low wattage small grows and actually increases yields , since de-leafing the smaller plants would most certainly expose lower parts of the plants to more concentrated lumens that normally would`ve been hacked out for upper growth and swellage.....
Peace....DHF......
Guaranteed......You shocked em , they shut down , and stopped eatin their nutes , or the opposite would`ve occurred Bro......
Plants eat ....... ppm`s go down , ph goes up .....period....Not backwards as you experienced.......so....though seemingly unimportant in your dialed setup and only experiencing minor fluctuations ,
you`re showing again that the shock/recovery process from strippin em shuts the plants down and they stop eatin till they recover........
How fast they recover is directly related to how much you rape and pillage em , as well as what type of hydro system you`re running to help em recover faster , or suffer more if in dirt for the turnaround........
Good stuff in here....Now we`re gettin down to tha nitty gritty.......
Peace....DHF.......
iampolluted
Active member
actually to me it seems dhf isn't advocating true defo, but he understands it's merit, and the reasons why some of us, like me, use it occasionally. in tight spaces where leaves compete with bud sites, and trying to pack as much as we can in the usable space.
him saying plant numbers dictate yield is 1 of the main reasons i went vert and started using the walls instead of the floor. i have 4 times as much room on the walls as my floor. if i can fit 18 on the floor, and fit 72 on the walls, i'd be a moron to expect the same yield from what's on the floor compared to what's in the racks.
" Originally Posted by DHF View Post
You know........The best "sig" quote I`ve seen in a while is right above me from High Country........
We don`t have the right to keep anyone from voicing their opinions.......regardless of ours........
If you run rooted cuts straight 12/12 jampacked next to each other , monocrop , and dial your strains/varieties in a solid SOG setup to see how many more you can cram in under your lights footprint every run till they`re maxed out for sq ftg , then and only then will yas know there`s not a more efficient yield per setup/sq ftg........."
this is what i'm trying to accomplish. defo has it's place in a grow if used correctly. i'm not, nor have i ever advocated stripping a plant bare. my method involves taking a few leaves per plant every week. a prolonged prune if you will. i'm not trying to extend my veg times. i'm just trying to get light to parts of my plant that had never produced, and it works for that. i also don't strip em during flower, but i do remove what is shading bud sites. it's not for every grower, every set up, or even every strain, but imo if you can turn larf into usable (smokeable or salable) bud, why not take advantage of it? it works for a vert sog when space matters. in a scrog probably wouldn't help a boatload, but it could help, just like pruning does. if done in moderation, and with care, a hard prune can be a benefit.
has anyone ever pruned a crepe myrtle? the same reasoning is useful here. to create more air flow and light penetration beneath the canopy. when pruned properly, you increase branching and thus, flower sites.
i'm not here to get into a pissing match with people who haven't tried it, and refuse to. i'm relating my experience with it, and nothing more.
oh, and i'm not completely wrong in saying that i feed my plants sugars (molasses, carbo-load, bud candy, ect...) because i do. all have glucose available for nutrient uptake. it also feeds bb so they can keep breaking down the food in the rhizosphere, producing amino acids for the plants, and some even help prevent disease and pest attacks. you may not feed your plants any sugars in hydro, but i do because i'm in soil and it's works for what i'm doing and my plants love it.
him saying plant numbers dictate yield is 1 of the main reasons i went vert and started using the walls instead of the floor. i have 4 times as much room on the walls as my floor. if i can fit 18 on the floor, and fit 72 on the walls, i'd be a moron to expect the same yield from what's on the floor compared to what's in the racks.
" Originally Posted by DHF View Post
You know........The best "sig" quote I`ve seen in a while is right above me from High Country........
We don`t have the right to keep anyone from voicing their opinions.......regardless of ours........
If you run rooted cuts straight 12/12 jampacked next to each other , monocrop , and dial your strains/varieties in a solid SOG setup to see how many more you can cram in under your lights footprint every run till they`re maxed out for sq ftg , then and only then will yas know there`s not a more efficient yield per setup/sq ftg........."
this is what i'm trying to accomplish. defo has it's place in a grow if used correctly. i'm not, nor have i ever advocated stripping a plant bare. my method involves taking a few leaves per plant every week. a prolonged prune if you will. i'm not trying to extend my veg times. i'm just trying to get light to parts of my plant that had never produced, and it works for that. i also don't strip em during flower, but i do remove what is shading bud sites. it's not for every grower, every set up, or even every strain, but imo if you can turn larf into usable (smokeable or salable) bud, why not take advantage of it? it works for a vert sog when space matters. in a scrog probably wouldn't help a boatload, but it could help, just like pruning does. if done in moderation, and with care, a hard prune can be a benefit.
has anyone ever pruned a crepe myrtle? the same reasoning is useful here. to create more air flow and light penetration beneath the canopy. when pruned properly, you increase branching and thus, flower sites.
i'm not here to get into a pissing match with people who haven't tried it, and refuse to. i'm relating my experience with it, and nothing more.
oh, and i'm not completely wrong in saying that i feed my plants sugars (molasses, carbo-load, bud candy, ect...) because i do. all have glucose available for nutrient uptake. it also feeds bb so they can keep breaking down the food in the rhizosphere, producing amino acids for the plants, and some even help prevent disease and pest attacks. you may not feed your plants any sugars in hydro, but i do because i'm in soil and it's works for what i'm doing and my plants love it.
Bud buster
Member
This is from another thread where DHF does recommend stripping a plant after stretch only he does it slow over a few days I guess you chose to only show those threads where he says striping a big plant at once can slow it down you missed the ones where he says to do it slowly this was 3 months ago so obviously he figured it out and recommends it so all those quotes from DHF are only half the story this is what he had to say near the bottom.https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=241158&page=5
"There`s a distinct difference between genetically bred purple strains like Heath did with Balck Russian and Purple Shiva Skunk for the pheno`s that came about as the Black Rose.......and.....
Plants that`s color up with lower lights off temps that kill chlorophyll in late flower and exhibit underlying "anthocyanin" production that`s inherent in all pot plants to a certain degree...but....
Looks like the Black Rhino`s gonna be a green pheno if there`s already budset and no colors are jumpin out..... but....there`s still time to see changes.....and....
It ain`t over till the fat lady sings Bro , so hang in there with the killer work..and.....Once stretch is completely over.....
Start takin off all the fanleaves that have a stem ..gradually over a several day period so as not to shock the plants...but...
Keep doin so till the only 1`s left on em are the 1 leafer`s juttin out the colas till end of cycle and it`ll make yas happy........
Keep on dialin Ismoke....Good luck and....
Peace...DHF.........
__________________
Knowledge is power.......Adapt or perish...... "
My plants came from my buddie who thru two extra clones hidden in his outdoor garden so they got little light and had started flowering I thought I'd dig them up because it was going to freeze within a couple of weeks or less and they are under a foot tall with no branching and just some budding hairs they wouldn't have produced anything. I dug them up at the end of september with a big root ball for such small plants put them in 5 gallon containers with only 4 gallons total a gallon of it was shit garden soil they came with that made there leaves yellow They were growing slow with a 400 watt hps the capacitor just died on me a couple of weeks ago thats why the leaves were turning to the CFL's the HPS wasn't giving good light so for the last two weeks they were under CFLS and would have been spindly without defoliation.
Before any trimming this is what they looked like
Naked for the first time.
They were striped twice before these pictures
Then stripped again
Then 70 hours later all the leaf mass is back
They are much bigger now a week ago I striped them again probably for the last time till after stretch as DHF recommends among others I haven't uploaded the pics yet.
My buddy just harvested the plants they aren't big yielders and his finished plants averaged not much bigger than mine are now actually one was smaller even though he is running hydro so not much stretch in this bagseed strain although the buzz and stickyness are good. I wasn't planing to grow anything so these were a surprise I had a 400 hps I got from work it was a old yard light for one day when I would grow again.
These aren't the biggest or fastest plants but you can see they have much more structure and branching then they would have without defoliation that it what I know from growing for way more than a decade but haven't in almost a decade so some rust is showing but these will produce more than my buddys hydro setup did.
I've have purple stems from cold nights and claws from to much nitrogen low humidity or too much water probably all, and now I've had them on a 1000mh and I put them to close they seem to have slowed down from being surrounded by CFLs which were warmer in a cabinet because the fan I have under the lamp is to strong for an open basement room I have to build a small room to dial everything in it's cold and dry in my basement.
Whodar the last grape study you posted at the bottom said one of the grape variety's did produce bigger taster grapes when defoliated and all the studies did it at flowering time the wrong timing it is best done early and using a plant that grows more like pot would be good sunflowers have one big seed pod and a few leaves you take them at flowering it's to late same with the grapes and soy.
Here Is a study Compensatory growth responses to defoliation and light availability in two native Mexican woody plant species
http://journals.cambridge.org/actio...2316&fulltextType=RA&fileId=S0266467409990514
Defoliation, often caused by herbivory, is a common cause of biomass loss for plants that can affect current and future growth and reproduction. There are three models that predict contrasting compensatory growth responses of plants to herbivory and resource availability: (1) Growth rate model, (2) Compensatory continuum hypothesis and (3) Limiting resource model. The predictions of these three models were tested on the tree Brosimum alicastrum and the liana Vitis tiliifolia. Seedlings were subjected to three levels of experimental defoliation (0%, 50% and 90% leaf removal) along a light resource gradient (1%, 9% and 65% of full sun). In both species, defoliation significantly increased leaf production rate and relative growth rate of leaf area, but not of biomass. Net assimilation rate was the strongest driver of biomass growth in both species, but leaf area ratio and specific leaf area were also important in B. alicastrum. Compensatory responses of leaf area growth in B. alicastrum were significantly greater in higher than lower light availability, consistent with the compensatory continuum hypothesis predictions, but in contrast to the growth rate model predictions. The limiting resource model offered an explanation for all possible experimental outcomes by directly considering the effects of environmental differences in resource availability.
One more http://journals.cambridge.org/actio...7752&fulltextType=RA&fileId=S001447970002353X
Effects of Artificial Defoliation (Simulating Pest Damage) on Varieties of Upland Rice
W. E. Taylora1
a1 Njala University College, University of Sierra Leone, P. M. B. Freetown
Abstract
Artificial defoliation was used to simulate grazing by cutting-grass or cane-rat (Thryonomys swinderianus), on three rices with durations of 110–115, 130–135 and 140–145 days respectively, defoliated before, during and soon after tillering by removing leaves to half, two-thirds and the total height of the plants. All varieties showed marked compensatory growth, resulting in increased tillering and yield, especially when defoliated during tillering, but yield fell when foliage was removed after tillering, especially with shorter duration rice. Defoliation to half the height of the plant during tillering had the most beneficial effect, whereas removal of all leaves to soil level after the tillering stage had the most adverse effect.
And another it produces more corn & double the cotton in dry conditions http://journals.cambridge.org/actio...0659&fulltextType=RA&fileId=S0014479703001534
EXPERIMENTAL ASSESSMENT OF THE IMPACT OF DEFOLIATION ON GROWTH AND PRODUCTION OF WATER-STRESSED MAIZE AND COTTON PLANTS
Z. YANG a1c1 and D. J. MIDMORE a1
a1 Plant Sciences Group, School of Biological and Environmental Sciences Central Queensland University, Rockhampton Qld 4702, Australia
Article author query
yang z [PubMed][Google Scholar]
midmore d [PubMed][Google Scholar]
Abstract
In this study, different levels of defoliation were imposed on a determinate species (maize) and a relatively indeterminate species (cotton). The aim was to quantify the effects of defoliation on plant growth and production, under either optimum or water-stressed conditions. Under well-watered conditions, 33% defoliation twice (conducted 28 and 35 days after emergence) resulted in a 16% reduction in grain yield of maize while 67% defoliation once (conducted 28 days after emergence) had no significant effect on yield. Under water stress, the grain yields of maize plants with 33% (twice) and 67% defoliation were 13.5% and 25% greater than that of non-defoliated control plants, respectively. For cotton, the reproductive yields (seed and lint) with 33% and 67% defoliation (conducted 43 days after emergence) were reduced, under well-watered conditions, by 28% and 37% of that of the non-defoliated control, respectively. Defoliated cotton plants lost less fruiting forms (squares and young bolls) than non-defoliated plants during water stress. Therefore, under water stress the harvestable product of cotton plants with 67% defoliation was double that of non-defoliated control plants. In non-defoliated cotton plants, a second flush of flowering after release from water-stress permitted further compensatory fruit set and boll harvest. Defoliated plants did not show such levels of compensation. Defoliation significantly reduced water use by maize and cotton. The relative yield advantage of defoliated plants under water-stress conditions can be attributed to defoliation-induced improvement in water status as reflected in measures of photosynthetic rate and stomatal conductance. Under anticipated drought stress, defoliation could be an important management practice to reduce drought-induced yield decrease, but this needs to be tested under field conditions.
(Accepted August 5 2003)
Just one more with corn http://journals.cambridge.org/actio...4324&fulltextType=RA&fileId=S0021859600062043
Defoliation studies in hybrid maize: II. Dry-matter accumulation, LAI, silking and yield components*
R. P. Singha1 and K. P. P. Naira1
a1 Department of Agronomy, G. B. Pant University of Agriculture and Technology, Pantnagar, India
SUMMARY
Data are presented from an experiment made in two crop seasons, to examine the effects of plant density and degree of defoliation at different stages of growth in maize at Pantnagar, India, on the dry-matter accumulation in different plant parts, leaf area index (LAI), time of silking and grain yield components.
Different patterns of dry-matter accumulation in various plant parts was observed. Silking was delayed by increasing plant density. Defoliation (even partial) at the 16th fully expanded leaf stage resulted in substantial reduction in LAI and such yield components as number of ears, ear length, ear diameter and 1000-grain weight. On the other hand, partial defoliation done at the 10th fully expanded leaf stage to simulate an ‘erectophile canopy’ led to yield increases even under high plant density (90000 plants/ha) in the Kharif (rainy season), mainly through an increase in number of ears, 1000-grain weight and grain to stover ratio coupled with a reduction in barrenness and percentage of lodging. It is suggested that an increase in the photosynthetic efficiency per unit area of leaf resulting from the ‘erectophile canopy’ is the reason for these effects.
(Received December 18 1974)
You guys can joke hate or do whatever you want Quote this or that like you have been for a very long time until you have tried it a couple of times like any other training method supercroping lsting topping FIM you don't know anything you have an opinion on something you have never tried.
I'm sure it would work with many crops if done early and tested as some have done for the right time and amount, just like I'm testing it now more than I had in the past and maybe the formula described isn't the best timing I'll test it myself and next run experiment more I'm sure I will be getting more bud doing it as I and many have done it and found it worked.
Let the hate begin LOL.
"There`s a distinct difference between genetically bred purple strains like Heath did with Balck Russian and Purple Shiva Skunk for the pheno`s that came about as the Black Rose.......and.....
Plants that`s color up with lower lights off temps that kill chlorophyll in late flower and exhibit underlying "anthocyanin" production that`s inherent in all pot plants to a certain degree...but....
Looks like the Black Rhino`s gonna be a green pheno if there`s already budset and no colors are jumpin out..... but....there`s still time to see changes.....and....
It ain`t over till the fat lady sings Bro , so hang in there with the killer work..and.....Once stretch is completely over.....
Start takin off all the fanleaves that have a stem ..gradually over a several day period so as not to shock the plants...but...
Keep doin so till the only 1`s left on em are the 1 leafer`s juttin out the colas till end of cycle and it`ll make yas happy........
Keep on dialin Ismoke....Good luck and....
Peace...DHF.........
__________________
Knowledge is power.......Adapt or perish...... "
My plants came from my buddie who thru two extra clones hidden in his outdoor garden so they got little light and had started flowering I thought I'd dig them up because it was going to freeze within a couple of weeks or less and they are under a foot tall with no branching and just some budding hairs they wouldn't have produced anything. I dug them up at the end of september with a big root ball for such small plants put them in 5 gallon containers with only 4 gallons total a gallon of it was shit garden soil they came with that made there leaves yellow They were growing slow with a 400 watt hps the capacitor just died on me a couple of weeks ago thats why the leaves were turning to the CFL's the HPS wasn't giving good light so for the last two weeks they were under CFLS and would have been spindly without defoliation.
Before any trimming this is what they looked like
Naked for the first time.
They were striped twice before these pictures
Then stripped again
Then 70 hours later all the leaf mass is back
They are much bigger now a week ago I striped them again probably for the last time till after stretch as DHF recommends among others I haven't uploaded the pics yet.
My buddy just harvested the plants they aren't big yielders and his finished plants averaged not much bigger than mine are now actually one was smaller even though he is running hydro so not much stretch in this bagseed strain although the buzz and stickyness are good. I wasn't planing to grow anything so these were a surprise I had a 400 hps I got from work it was a old yard light for one day when I would grow again.
These aren't the biggest or fastest plants but you can see they have much more structure and branching then they would have without defoliation that it what I know from growing for way more than a decade but haven't in almost a decade so some rust is showing but these will produce more than my buddys hydro setup did.
I've have purple stems from cold nights and claws from to much nitrogen low humidity or too much water probably all, and now I've had them on a 1000mh and I put them to close they seem to have slowed down from being surrounded by CFLs which were warmer in a cabinet because the fan I have under the lamp is to strong for an open basement room I have to build a small room to dial everything in it's cold and dry in my basement.
Whodar the last grape study you posted at the bottom said one of the grape variety's did produce bigger taster grapes when defoliated and all the studies did it at flowering time the wrong timing it is best done early and using a plant that grows more like pot would be good sunflowers have one big seed pod and a few leaves you take them at flowering it's to late same with the grapes and soy.
Here Is a study Compensatory growth responses to defoliation and light availability in two native Mexican woody plant species
http://journals.cambridge.org/actio...2316&fulltextType=RA&fileId=S0266467409990514
Defoliation, often caused by herbivory, is a common cause of biomass loss for plants that can affect current and future growth and reproduction. There are three models that predict contrasting compensatory growth responses of plants to herbivory and resource availability: (1) Growth rate model, (2) Compensatory continuum hypothesis and (3) Limiting resource model. The predictions of these three models were tested on the tree Brosimum alicastrum and the liana Vitis tiliifolia. Seedlings were subjected to three levels of experimental defoliation (0%, 50% and 90% leaf removal) along a light resource gradient (1%, 9% and 65% of full sun). In both species, defoliation significantly increased leaf production rate and relative growth rate of leaf area, but not of biomass. Net assimilation rate was the strongest driver of biomass growth in both species, but leaf area ratio and specific leaf area were also important in B. alicastrum. Compensatory responses of leaf area growth in B. alicastrum were significantly greater in higher than lower light availability, consistent with the compensatory continuum hypothesis predictions, but in contrast to the growth rate model predictions. The limiting resource model offered an explanation for all possible experimental outcomes by directly considering the effects of environmental differences in resource availability.
One more http://journals.cambridge.org/actio...7752&fulltextType=RA&fileId=S001447970002353X
Effects of Artificial Defoliation (Simulating Pest Damage) on Varieties of Upland Rice
W. E. Taylora1
a1 Njala University College, University of Sierra Leone, P. M. B. Freetown
Abstract
Artificial defoliation was used to simulate grazing by cutting-grass or cane-rat (Thryonomys swinderianus), on three rices with durations of 110–115, 130–135 and 140–145 days respectively, defoliated before, during and soon after tillering by removing leaves to half, two-thirds and the total height of the plants. All varieties showed marked compensatory growth, resulting in increased tillering and yield, especially when defoliated during tillering, but yield fell when foliage was removed after tillering, especially with shorter duration rice. Defoliation to half the height of the plant during tillering had the most beneficial effect, whereas removal of all leaves to soil level after the tillering stage had the most adverse effect.
And another it produces more corn & double the cotton in dry conditions http://journals.cambridge.org/actio...0659&fulltextType=RA&fileId=S0014479703001534
EXPERIMENTAL ASSESSMENT OF THE IMPACT OF DEFOLIATION ON GROWTH AND PRODUCTION OF WATER-STRESSED MAIZE AND COTTON PLANTS
Z. YANG a1c1 and D. J. MIDMORE a1
a1 Plant Sciences Group, School of Biological and Environmental Sciences Central Queensland University, Rockhampton Qld 4702, Australia
Article author query
yang z [PubMed][Google Scholar]
midmore d [PubMed][Google Scholar]
Abstract
In this study, different levels of defoliation were imposed on a determinate species (maize) and a relatively indeterminate species (cotton). The aim was to quantify the effects of defoliation on plant growth and production, under either optimum or water-stressed conditions. Under well-watered conditions, 33% defoliation twice (conducted 28 and 35 days after emergence) resulted in a 16% reduction in grain yield of maize while 67% defoliation once (conducted 28 days after emergence) had no significant effect on yield. Under water stress, the grain yields of maize plants with 33% (twice) and 67% defoliation were 13.5% and 25% greater than that of non-defoliated control plants, respectively. For cotton, the reproductive yields (seed and lint) with 33% and 67% defoliation (conducted 43 days after emergence) were reduced, under well-watered conditions, by 28% and 37% of that of the non-defoliated control, respectively. Defoliated cotton plants lost less fruiting forms (squares and young bolls) than non-defoliated plants during water stress. Therefore, under water stress the harvestable product of cotton plants with 67% defoliation was double that of non-defoliated control plants. In non-defoliated cotton plants, a second flush of flowering after release from water-stress permitted further compensatory fruit set and boll harvest. Defoliated plants did not show such levels of compensation. Defoliation significantly reduced water use by maize and cotton. The relative yield advantage of defoliated plants under water-stress conditions can be attributed to defoliation-induced improvement in water status as reflected in measures of photosynthetic rate and stomatal conductance. Under anticipated drought stress, defoliation could be an important management practice to reduce drought-induced yield decrease, but this needs to be tested under field conditions.
(Accepted August 5 2003)
Just one more with corn http://journals.cambridge.org/actio...4324&fulltextType=RA&fileId=S0021859600062043
Defoliation studies in hybrid maize: II. Dry-matter accumulation, LAI, silking and yield components*
R. P. Singha1 and K. P. P. Naira1
a1 Department of Agronomy, G. B. Pant University of Agriculture and Technology, Pantnagar, India
SUMMARY
Data are presented from an experiment made in two crop seasons, to examine the effects of plant density and degree of defoliation at different stages of growth in maize at Pantnagar, India, on the dry-matter accumulation in different plant parts, leaf area index (LAI), time of silking and grain yield components.
Different patterns of dry-matter accumulation in various plant parts was observed. Silking was delayed by increasing plant density. Defoliation (even partial) at the 16th fully expanded leaf stage resulted in substantial reduction in LAI and such yield components as number of ears, ear length, ear diameter and 1000-grain weight. On the other hand, partial defoliation done at the 10th fully expanded leaf stage to simulate an ‘erectophile canopy’ led to yield increases even under high plant density (90000 plants/ha) in the Kharif (rainy season), mainly through an increase in number of ears, 1000-grain weight and grain to stover ratio coupled with a reduction in barrenness and percentage of lodging. It is suggested that an increase in the photosynthetic efficiency per unit area of leaf resulting from the ‘erectophile canopy’ is the reason for these effects.
(Received December 18 1974)
You guys can joke hate or do whatever you want Quote this or that like you have been for a very long time until you have tried it a couple of times like any other training method supercroping lsting topping FIM you don't know anything you have an opinion on something you have never tried.
I'm sure it would work with many crops if done early and tested as some have done for the right time and amount, just like I'm testing it now more than I had in the past and maybe the formula described isn't the best timing I'll test it myself and next run experiment more I'm sure I will be getting more bud doing it as I and many have done it and found it worked.
Let the hate begin LOL.
bud buster, you say the leaves are clawed through over feeding, and your temps are not consistant. shouldnt you try correcting these to acheive better yield rather than skinning?
ps i got to give you some respect honestly for posting up those pics. that second picture in particular. i would not put a pic up like that on this site.
ps i got to give you some respect honestly for posting up those pics. that second picture in particular. i would not put a pic up like that on this site.
Bud buster
Member
It just shows what structure the plant was in and now those nubs are forced to grow out much faster and denser then they would have from the state they were in. The first page of this thread shows a smaller plant striped down you still leave all tips I never use to strip them down this much but these had no branching so I followed the first page basically and I've got tons of branching that is tight so now it needs to stretch some I will transplant and switch soon.
I got nothing to compare this with except a buddy who grew 3 of these. I have to set up two small rooms in a room in the basement to share heat because this place doesn't have many basement heat vents it gets to 63 at the lowest usually 65 with lights in the cabinet 75-80 nights now aren't any different now but the room temp is 70-73 probably slightly colder at night with the 1000 watt so nothing extreme RH40-50 I can keep it at 50 during winter. The feed was some Alfalfa tea I made and have been using once in a while when they started drinking faster I was feeding most of the time and mixing it stronger so they have been on water the last two times and most most of the leaf is fine now just some on the tops.
I grow for myself so can experiment it's cheap bud for me you never know till you try.
I got nothing to compare this with except a buddy who grew 3 of these. I have to set up two small rooms in a room in the basement to share heat because this place doesn't have many basement heat vents it gets to 63 at the lowest usually 65 with lights in the cabinet 75-80 nights now aren't any different now but the room temp is 70-73 probably slightly colder at night with the 1000 watt so nothing extreme RH40-50 I can keep it at 50 during winter. The feed was some Alfalfa tea I made and have been using once in a while when they started drinking faster I was feeding most of the time and mixing it stronger so they have been on water the last two times and most most of the leaf is fine now just some on the tops.
I grow for myself so can experiment it's cheap bud for me you never know till you try.
I
Iffy-Caradoc
I am staggered that this thread is still running. What a hot topic! And the passion displayed by all is commendable but at the end of the day fellas, this is a forum to discuss that which brings us together - the love of growing & consuming cannabis in all its glorious forms.
We don't need to bang our cocks together & vent our spleens to get our points across!
Respect to all you growers, keep doing what makes you happy & have the grace to allow others to do the same!
Stay safe.
We don't need to bang our cocks together & vent our spleens to get our points across!
Respect to all you growers, keep doing what makes you happy & have the grace to allow others to do the same!
Stay safe.
bud buster how old are them plants
Note the light where its @ the plant has not grown at all yup rip them leaves off plant switches to repair mode then hack them up again and again plant goes into repair mode what gives ???? i see same few branches from beginning nothing more plant looks weak in reality here plant @ 5 week you see a difference ?????? plant going into Day 10 flower so 45 days please note scrog table is over 4 feet high ???? also note the scrog table has 680 4" squares and presently 640 of them have 1 bud site in them ???? that my friend is proper growing trust me
also note the size of the bud on 5 gallon pail pretty much same size of your plant dam bro i say change up our style of growing get become a guru not wanna be
Note the light where its @ the plant has not grown at all yup rip them leaves off plant switches to repair mode then hack them up again and again plant goes into repair mode what gives ???? i see same few branches from beginning nothing more plant looks weak in reality here plant @ 5 week you see a difference ?????? plant going into Day 10 flower so 45 days please note scrog table is over 4 feet high ???? also note the scrog table has 680 4" squares and presently 640 of them have 1 bud site in them ???? that my friend is proper growing trust me
also note the size of the bud on 5 gallon pail pretty much same size of your plant dam bro i say change up our style of growing get become a guru not wanna be
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Bud buster
Member
So am I LOL some people just have to tell other what to do based on not having done it.
no one is telling you what to do. you have not presented anything which makes me want to try your method. it seems your skinning, the plant grows back, you skin, it grows back again. this could keep going on forever.
and im not just saying this.. but every single bud pic ive seen on this thread from a defoliated plant is either small, very airy.. or both.
iampolluted
Active member
everyone's definition of larf will vary....i saw maybe 5 buds in the op's pic a few pages back that were larf to me, everything else looked to be a gram or more in size.
Bud buster
Member
I've had them for five weeks the plant hasn't gotten very tall because I was growing them vertically no light near the top using those 23 watt CFL and a underpowered 400 that died more than two weeks ago so it's florescent until I bought a 1000 watt a few days ago .I would have buded them by now to keep them short and fat for the cabinet with the vertical 400 hps but I got the 1000 cheap so now I'm doing a room grow I wasn't going to do but why not more power.
Fever you scrog in a 4 feet high table so the plants are only halve that right now same as mine in about the about same time yours should be way taller given 3000 watts of overhead lighting for the last what 3 weeks or so they were under a 1000 watt for more than a week plus and you transplanted them into tested soil 4 times now more than 30 gallons for two or more weeks and 5 gallon before which I agree would be Ideal.
Now my plants that I've had for about the same amount of time that came with a gallon of shit soil attached so it's been in 4 gallons the whole time it was to small to begin with so never dried out growth was slow with a faulty capacitor on the vertical 400 HPS the leaves would turned to the CFLS plus you have better temps and CO2.
Why aren't your plants like way bigger then mine because they have had a perfect pampered life and mine thoroughly abused plant.
You got way more light and they have had premium light the whole time.
You've got way more soil and better soil mine i think is a bit off.
You have always had a better environment perfect day & night temp nutrient humidity bang on and more than 1500ppm CO2.
My pictures were three weeks old go back about 5 or so pages same pics the plant is basically the size of yours with shit light and no top light bad soil in the cold.
I'm obviously the better grower I can do the same with much less in every respect imagine when I set everything up and start fresh I really be kicking ass LOL
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