Guerrilla growing in sand - making it work

Thule · Dec 11, 2014

Hi, I wanted to hear your thoughts on amending pure sand with organic nutrients to make it sustain cannabis. The idea is to use as little compost as possible and make it work with stuff you can carry around in your backpack.

I'm not asking if it can be done (it can), or if it's worthwhile. I'm asking how to make the best of it.

So, if you were held at gun point and were forced to prepare a 1m² or 10ft² guerrilla plot on plain sand, how would you go about doing it? :shooty:

I'm visualizing a reproduction of a short autoflower variety. Minimum maintenance, somewhat rainy climate.

You are allowed to use a maximum of 15 liters of compost or soil (crucial) and 5 kilograms of nutrients, guano, chicken shit, char coal, bone meal, lime, anything. Why not water storing crystals too. How would you go about growing at least 5 plants to maturity with minimal maintenance?

idiit · Dec 11, 2014

^ i've done this od. works fine. i grew several times on fresh water sand dunes near creeks. i just used top soil from nearby fertile areas.

once the rootball is established she is usually pretty hardy.

the primary amendment imo is 50/50 calcitic line mixed with dolomite lime. cannabis doesn't need nearly as much of the npk type amendments that many think it does. i'm using 10 times as much lime (50/50) worked into the top 12" of a 4' diameter as i used to use. research ALBRECHT lime ratios. best advice i ever took for od growing.

5 gallon bucket grows in this type of substrate might make sense. drill drainage holes in the bottom and bury slightly lower than "flush" for concealment. with bucket grows the effective diameter is like 18" so not as much lime as "no bucket" but you could still work lime deep into area around the bucket due to surrounding soil reverse leaching into bucket drainage holes.

VerdantGreen · Dec 11, 2014

not going to play the game, but what you want first and foremost is a lot of organic matter.
sand has no CEC so also some clay or biochar would help

if you went and prepared the bed now for next season you could get away with using un-composted leaves etc.

VG

nan · Dec 11, 2014

Blessed to have sandy loam for my outdoor so am very interested to be schooled by this thread.

TheyCallMeJJay · Dec 11, 2014

Be careful with calcitic lime. I've seem the stuff turn good soil into concrete.

idiit · Dec 11, 2014

not going to play the game, but what you want first and foremost is a lot of organic matter.
sand has no CEC so also some clay or biochar would help

^ yes. why i use 5 gallon buckets to bring in fertile soil from nearby sources. no need to truck in. i do like adding hardwood charcoal to all my garden holes.

Be careful with calcitic lime. I've seem the stuff turn good soil into concrete.

^ i like crushed oyster shells easily available at feed stores. the lime sources will need to be carried in and should comprise the majority of the weight of the amendments being brought into the grow site. i use lithotrophs in my home made water suspended micro herd. archaea are in sea-crop. the archaea are great at chelating hard to chelate trace minerals ( i use azomite pre-soaked in my micro herd solution). just add sea-crop to your water suspended microherd solution. add non sulphur black molasses and thirty days later the archaea snap out of dormancy and you have a rich well fed micro herd to do the hard mineral and calcium shell chelation. should do amendments in winter to give the microherd time. sea-crop also has healthy doses of ormus and ormus loves bio-char.

some links to rock eating bacteria listed below:

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/f...fbkl47sekde80&topic=40117.msg361414#msg361414

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/mole00/mole00283.htm

Thule · Dec 11, 2014

Can you elaborate on the lime thing? It sounds like your using a lot more than is required for just fixing the ph. Is it the calcium we want? How much would u use for 10 square ft then?

It tends to get confusing with the different measuring units and different plot sizes so that's why I want to apply these guidelines to a 1sq meter plot, to make it more tangible.

idiit · Dec 11, 2014

How much would u use for 10 square ft then?

10 #'s 50/50, 60/40. i eyeball. in the past i would add 1/2#- 1# dolomite for that size area.

experiment. keep notes.

Albrecht was outspoken on matters of declining soil fertility, having identified that it was due to a lack of organic material, major elements, and trace minerals, and was thus responsible for poor crops and in turn for pathological conditions in animals fed deficient foods from such soils.[13]

He laid the blame as:

“ "NPK formulas, (nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium) as legislated and enforced by State Departments of Agriculture, mean malnutrition, attack by insects, bacteria and fungi, weed takeover, crop loss in dry weather, and general loss of mental acuity in the population, leading to degenerative metabolic disease and early death.

"Don't lime to fight soil acidity. Use lime to feed the plant."
- Dr. William Albrecht

Calcium in the Soil

Dr William Albrecht called calcium "The Prince of Elements". Arden Anderson [1998] takes the modern view: Calcium is THE KING OF ELEMENTS. "Calcium is at the head of the list of the strictly soil-borne elements required in the nourishment of Life" [From the Albrecht Papers Vol 1. p.144, 1996] For further information on the importance of Calcium please read Albrecht Papers Vol 1. p.144, 1996 [Acres USA]. The title is simply named: Calcium and is reputed to be one of Albrecht finest presentations.

Calcium is important because it is the dominating cation [said "cat" "iron"] or positive [+] element in a healthy balanced soil. Calcium can potentially have a beneficial effect on biological, physical and chemical properties of your soil if it is needed. Gilbert [1957] notes that Albrecht believes that calcium deficiency is the number one plant nutrient problem in agricultural production.

http://www.healthyag.com/albrecht.html

^ easy first introduction to albrecht's theory re living soil revolves/pivots around high calcium ratios.

there is a great deal of resistance to albrecht's theory re lime ratios from main stream soil scientists. i use it and it is the best advice i ever followed. dolomite lime's mg levels is 50% of the calcium by weight. by mixing dolomite with pure calcitic lime 50/50, 60/40 the mg levels drop down to below 25% ( much better). when you add a lot of garden lime the garden lime aka dolomite lime mg levels actually inhibit nutrient uptake by the plants. adding lots of lime is bad if you use garden lime. i am getting tremendously better results by adding lots of 50/50 lime. way better.

experiment for yourself and keep notes; the only way to go if you are unsure. lime is much more than a soil ph adjuster; it's the master amendment if you go 50/50 - 60/40 calcitic/dolomite. read the short linked article: http://www.healthyag.com/albrecht.html

http://www.nutri-tech.com.au/blog/2014/02/in-defense-of-albrecht/

^ excellent short article that refutes albrecht's critics.

i use 50/50 as my master amendment and pre-chelated trace minerals ( tablespoon around root ball) and it has tremendously improved my yields and health of my od girls. main stream soil scientists want you to add #'s of unchelated trace minerals that take 10 years before they are even available for plant nutrient uptake and salt based fertilizers that actually kill the microherd along with garden lime that's mg levels are way too high. the plants do need some mg but 50% mg is almost off the chart if you "heavy lime". excessive mg levels inhibit nutrient uptake.

clackamus coot (mr. coot) uses albrecht's method and he's a well respected/well informed grower/member here at ic.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/search.php?searchid=5351286

^ "albrecht" search on ic mag posts. read a few (250 posts came up ) if you are interested.

As far as Albrecht numbers not holding any merit... well The cal/ mag ratio has always been a debate. One thing that isnt debatable is that lots of calcium is key. The research papers dont mean as much to me as the actual people I know and have seen excel using those ratios. Unparalleled yields and plant expressions, with nearly zero pest or plant health issues. Thats all the published work I need to at least give it a try. One thing is clear, those numbers certainly arent bad and at the very least something to aim for.

FatherEarth
^https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=6446477&highlight=albrecht#post6446477

^ one of the 250 albrecht quotes here at ic mag.

idiit · Dec 11, 2014

^ it's a guerilla grow. guerilla grows have much different criteria re access, security, backpacking in amendments, etc...

sandy soil does not need the same amendment ratios as loam for example.

ppl will say get soil tests. good idea usually coming from ppl who are not guerilla growers. my od guerilla plots have an average lifespan of under 2 years.

calcium is much more than soil ph.

albrecht really skooled me on the importance of feeding the microherd that in turn feeds the plants.

unchelated trace minerals are a waste of time/effort. sea derived amendments are pre-chelated. i pre-chelate azomite. a lot of unchelated trace minerals is much less effective than a tablespoon of prechelated azomite scattered and worked down/ around the rootball from my experience.

Scrappy4 · Dec 12, 2014

I used to bring in one five gallon bucket of good compost for each planned hole. I dug holes in sand slightly bigger than the size of the bucket. Then lined the hole with several layers of newspaper to hold moisture with and to keep the compost closer. I did use the top layer of sand mixed with my compost. This worked very well, and I was able to reuse the holes for 3 years before old age and common sense stopped me, lol.

I've tried other ways thru the years as well but this newspaper idea worked best. Good luck and stay safe.

Thule · Dec 12, 2014

Interesting. Do we all agree that calcium and carbon are the key elements?

There seems to be a lot to read on the subject, desertification and erosion are global problems these days. Many people see terra preta or bio-char as the solution. It could be, but it's not necessarily easy to do it right. It might be a good idea to do test runs in pots before the outdoor season, just to see what works and what doesn't. Thanks to a late winter I might have a day or two to go and get me some sand.

The soil here btw is just sand, maybe mixed with fine silt but I'm no expert. It was all sea bottom a thousand years ago, nothing grows in it except for pine trees. Very low ph. Digging big holes in this soil is easy and it's great for growing ganja as long as you bring your own soil. Slugs are definitely not a problem, neither is drought ime.

idiit · Dec 12, 2014

^^ lack of healthy indigenous vegetation big red flag.

cannabis is a woody stem leafy plant/weed. if i see an area that does not have this type of vegetation growing vigorously naturally already i don't even think about going the "existing soil amendment" route.

Digging big holes in this soil is easy and it's great for growing ganja as long as you bring your own soil

^ if you are sure about that then bring in the soil and make your amendments. i'm concerned about leaching of the low ph surrounding soil/sand into your imported soil grow area. the bigger the plot ( 1 sq. meter might be minimum) the more buffering capacity area you have to protect your gals.

otherwise, do a 'big tub' grow. plenty of info on tub grows ( bucket but bigger) here at ic.

https://www.google.com/webhp?source...spv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=tub+grows+site:www.icmag.com

^ ic mag tub grow threads.

i still highly recommend albrecht's technique for the soil used. i'd import everything in and use none of the indigenous material.

BurnOne · Dec 12, 2014

All those pine tree needles make the soil acidic as hell.
Burn1

aridbud · Dec 12, 2014

Can you bury large nursey containers....the type trees are sold at garden centers/nurserys, with better soil mix in those containers??? Digging to put the cotainers in sandy loam or sand doesn't require much effort.

I bought 20 gallon nursery containers (used) for veggie garden in addition to my raised beds last summer. They worked beautifully.

Submerge the containers so it doesn't look obvious.

VerdantGreen · Dec 12, 2014

how close to the sea is it?

pines like that are usually planted to stabilize sand dunes.

Thule · Dec 12, 2014

Sure I can buy containers, I already have a couple of big ones, 80 liters. Grew just fine out in the open. Is there any other benefit to burying the container than concealment? I find it that these black containers attract heat in late spring/early summer days, which is a plus.

I'm not growing too close to the sea, must be more than 5 kilometers from the closest plot.

aridbud · Dec 12, 2014

Thule said:
Sure I can buy containers, I already have a couple of big ones, 80 liters. Grew just fine out in the open. Is there any other benefit to burying the container than concealment? I find it that these black containers attract heat in late spring/early summer days, which is a plus.

I'm not growing too close to the sea, must be more than 5 kilometers from the closest plot.

I'm just thinking, since you want to grow in a sandy area....those large containers above ground might attract a double take, looking....from strangers wandering....if that might occur.

By submerging, you still get heat encapsulation (sand warming the black containers down below), but not overtly obvious to people or planes. And you can control the soil composition not have to be as concerned vs. sandy growing.....dealing w/ pH, etc.

Just a thought.

Thule · Dec 12, 2014

The population density here is 3 people per km2 so my spots are quite secure. I never plant where there's habitation withing a 1km radius so I have pretty good privacy. Agreed, a big container is a bit more risky. Maybe I should indeed bury 'em. Was just thinking about all the small critters that like pot and might have harder time eating if the plants are above ground level.. there are pros and cons.

Thule · Dec 15, 2014

Which one is better dolomite lime or lime marble?

Luther Burbank · Dec 15, 2014

Thule, I happen to originally be a flatlander with some experience in sand. You're gonna need as much organic matter as possible. I'd either carry in peat, finished compost, and if possible haul some bentonite/montmorillionite in to raise the CEC.

Guerrilla growing in sand - making it work

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