Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???

milehighmedical said:

So how well does Bayer/Imid treatment work on other pests? Are the people who are using it as a preventative in veg using anything else to prevent other pests? Could this be a solution to a lot of problems? Anyone have thoughts on interaction with the micro herd?

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I can tell you that it decimates white flies and ladybugs that feed on aphids in the soil. Seems to have put a hurtin on the fungus gnats but they are making a slow comeback...dunks here I come.

I am unsure of Imid's effects on beneficials, but I will do some research.

I use bene's and myco fungis but I also reapply them using aerated compost teas every 2 weeks (always a week after I use Imid or Azamax/Azatrol) just to be sure.

"Micro herd" is grower slang for the population of beneficial microorganisms that are a big part of growing, if not vital to every grow. They are also referred to as "micro beasties" as well, not to be confused with "micro bots" which is the code name I assigned the type of aphid that apparently you have.
"Micro bots" or "micros" apparently do not have a winged phase - at least according to the two points of data we have so far. This may make treatment more manageable (though don't tell our friend attila I said that!)

If you folks all FILLED OUT THE DAMN QUESTIONNAIRE as the good users GeorgeSmiley, Smokesalot and Milehigh have, then we may have a bit more information on which types respond to what etc. Add your important info, not just your two cents!

spleebale said:

"Micro herd" is grower slang for the population of beneficial microorganisms that are a big part of growing, if not vital to every grow. They are also referred to as "micro beasties" as well, not to be confused with "micro bots" which is the code name I assigned the type of aphid that apparently you have.
"Micro bots" or "micros" apparently do not have a winged phase - at least according to the two points of data we have so far. This may make treatment more manageable (though don't tell our friend attila I said that!)

If you folks all FILLED OUT THE DAMN QUESTIONNAIRE as the good users GeorgeSmiley, Smokesalot and Milehigh have, then we may have a bit more information on which types respond to what etc. Add your important info, not just your two cents!

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I would fill out the form and post pictures if I had any questions or needed help. I had searched pot forums all over the place and found nothing about these aphids until I came here. That made me want to be a member. Thanks for all the hard work on this issue so far!

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Nice... Whooo I think i have to take a moment to catch my breath... I've been struggling with def issues absolutely horrible for months now. Even did a thread here at the infirmary about it.

2 days ago I noticed some black "flies" around my plants. Thought it was weird. Today I pull out the plants to water them and kill 5 or 6 of these bastards. And by pure luck I notice some white little tiny larvaes struggling to survive when I water the soil.

So I'm going to post something about my problem and I decide to read this thread just by curiosity. I might still have to catch my jaw from the ground.

I decided to post little pictures so it can be read more easily. These are picks from more than a month ago! I don't have my camera with me right now so I can't take any picture right now. I'll do it tomorrow.






I'm not sure I have this fuckin' shit 100%. But it really looks like it.
A killer thread for sure Spleebale as I can at last put a name on what's destroying my plants. Cannot give rep for now as I've used my daily ration, will do it tomorrow.



A)How bad was your infestation and what effects have you observed in your plants/grow?
Still having it, discovered it today. Very nasty rusty leafs, pics coming tomorrow. Stunted growth.

B)Have you grown the same way before with success or with the same problems? Have you grown a different way before with success or the same problems?
I have grown before with no problems of this sort. The only thing I've changed are the nutes. I used bioSevia before and I'm using Canna Organics now. I grow in soil with Canna soil.

C)Have you treated them before (if so, how and what were your results/conclusions)
No.

D)What type of medium/nutrients and what type of setup (hand water, ebb/flow etc)
Canna soil with Canna nutes organic.






I must say this problem got me really angry and frustrated. We need to eradicate this thing.

Try to catch one of the "flies" and look at it(UNDER 10-50X MAG IF POSSIBLE), if it has a roundish body with 2 little tubes comin out its back, its phylloxera.

If you see the fliers and you confirm its phylloxera, dont mess around, its a serious problem. They caused defs for me that looked very similar to that... Are you in a relatively humid, grape-growing region?

Mile: Its been commonly seen that gnats will move in too when root aphids start wreaking havoc on our poor roots. Also other pests will be more likely to pop up as the plants defenses will be weakened by the rotting roots. But the gnats shouldnt be doing damage like that...

Ok got the rest of the pics. Not for the faint-hearted.

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What up MHM, I'm also from CO and caregiver for another patient... she's not too happy about the root aphid problem!

Today is day 31 of flower for me. I've got 12 plants and 2-3 most likely aren't going to make it. I'm just finishing up with the second of my pyrethrin drenches... then I'm going to rinse and apply nematodes. I'm hoping the nematodes will help me pull through the last 3 weeks or so to harvest. I've noticed my root aphids are kind of a greenish color and they have soft-bodies... so I think the nematodes will work pretty well if I can keep them alive. I'm actually thinking I'll just apply them weekly until harvest.... I would bet that that'll keep them under control until harvest.

I just can't afford to lose this grow. I need to at least make my money back on the equipment...

In the future I'm hoping it'll be easy to control root aphids. It seems that the problem is worst for the unsuspecting victims like us who didn't realize they had the bugs until mid-flowering! I think if one regularly inoculates the soil with nematodes or Beauveria bassiana (Botanigard) during veg then the problem will never arise! Next grow I'll be ordering Botanigard and using it regularly... Prevention is definitely the key.

Can someone tell me from the pics of the insect I catched if it's a winged root aphid?

looks either like a fungus gnat or something altogether different.
the body is too elongated to be a root aphid.
root aphids always have the nubs on the back of their butts and the bodies are more compact and rounded.

Equilibrium said:

Can someone tell me from the pics of the insect I catched if it's a winged root aphid?

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This could be an aphid.

Were you talking about this thing or the long legged thing?

milehighmedical said:

Every flier I've caught so far has had the rounded wings of the fungus gnat and was relatively easy to identify. I just can't find an aphid. But the plants are going down hill, might be able to pull through these last couple weeks.

But I gave one of my girls the imid just to see what would happen, and it doesn't look any better. So I definitely won't be applying it to all of them.

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You didn't even have any dead ones in the runoff tray after treating with Spectracide? Are you in soil? I would think you'd see some dead ones washing out after a treatment... Before I knew I had them, I actually just sprayed the surface with a few sprays of pyrethrin/neem to prevent fungus gnats, and the next day after watering I had a bunch of dead aphids in my runoff tray... mine have kind of a greenish tint that is hard to notice... they look black unless you look close up.

Well, I'm going to be killing my Mr Nice plant tomorrow! I'm bummed. I'm going to get into the roots and see the damage and see if my pyrethrum/nicotine treatments were working. I'll try to post some pics. It was my BEST plant... nice little bush that was LST'd. I was hoping to pull 3 oz off of it. Anyway, my the other Mr Nice and my LA Confidential are starting to yellow up pretty good. I'm hoping that they can be saved enough to make it to harvest. The LA Con looks dank already. I'm on day 32, so 24-28 days to go minimum.

Also, Equilibrium, just because you don't see the flyers doesn't mean you don't have the aphids!! In my situation, I had flying aphids and I thought they were gnats. Now, after having aphids for awhile I have gnats too... I don't even think I had them before. But now that I have both it's easy to tell the difference. The gnats kind of look like little mosquitos to me.

Anybody have any recent feedback on nematodes? Obviously, it seems like there's a couple different types of "root aphids" going around. Mine appear more like regular aphids... with a subtle green shade if closely examined. They are more soft-bodied which makes them very vulnerable to predatory nematodes.

Oh yeah, I never answered this:

A)How bad was your infestation and what effects have you observed in your plants/grow?
I'm unsure of how bad my infestation is. I'm in soil so I haven't really seen any living "crawling" aphids... however, I have seen "flyers". I've only seen the crawling aphids after treating the soil and having dead crawlers in the runoff tray. I have 11 plants going. One plant began showing a slight yellowing in very early flowering. By about day 20 of flowering it was evident that this yellowing was getting worse and wasn't helped by addition of nitrogen. By about day 25 the entire plant was a very light green. A second plant also began showing yellowing in early flowering, but seems to have progressed slightly slower. At day 31, some of the fan leaves are still fairly green. A third plant started showing significant yellowing at about day 28. So 3 plants are showing extreme root damage at day 31 evident from the nutrient deficiency symptoms that are presenting. I hope to save 8 out of 11 plants as they're showing no signs as of yet... and possibly get 2 out of the 3 damaged plant through to harvest to get something. I'm killing the worst plants.
I also noticed the plants have gone for my healthiest and fastest-growing plants and also the fruity/citrus plants. They seem to enjoy my Mr Nice plant which seems to be a very citrusy phenotype (maybe it was a mislabeled clone).

B)Have you grown the same way before with success or with the same problems? Have you grown a different way before with success or the same problems?
I'm growing in soil for the first time, however, I have help and I've researched growing for years. I was able to succesfully eradicate spider mites already in my first grow, so I'm observant and diligent in my efforts. I'm fairly certain that the root aphids were introduced on clones I got from a vendor (who also brought my spider mites). I got 7 clones from one vendor, and 4 from a second vendor. All of my infected plants are from the first vendor... I suspect the other clones from this vendor may have root aphids too although they're showing no signs... they were purchased a couple weeks later so the aphids probably haven't done their damage yet. Be careful where you get your clones!!!

C)Have you treated them before (if so, how and what were your results/conclusions)
I began treatment on Day 26. Treatment lasted 6 days and consisted of an initial drench of nicotine solution (1cup nicotine/gallon water boiled). Plants dried for a few days and then received a drench of pyrethrum (Bug Buster O @ 20-25mL/gal). That was initial treatment. Then plants will be lightly flushed and watered with a nutrient/hygrozyme/superthrive solution. After a few days, and ensuring the soil has been properly flushed, I will be starting a second treatment with the application of predatory nematodes. This will ideally be 4-7 days after finishing the last pyrethrum flush. I hope that the nicotine/pyrethrum flush killed off most of the aphids. Then, having reduced their numbers, I'll be giving the nematodes a fighting chance to keep any remaining aphids under control. I will apply additional nematodes weekly after this if necessary... it would only be 2-3 more weeks max and if I can get to harvest the $75 it will cost will be worth it if I can save my quality/yield.

D)What type of medium/nutrients and what type of setup (hand water, ebb/flow etc)
I'm in soil... Fox Farms Ocean Forest using organic nutrients (Humboldt Nutrients organic line)... handwatered. Does anyone think these could ever come from FFOF? That stuff is mixed in grape country if I'm not mistaken?

Eggs laid in buds!?!?

Eggs laid in buds!?!?

Sorry for the double-post... tried to delete and compile but couldn't...

OK, so does anyone know if these eggs laid in the buds are viable? I thought I even read somewhere that the flyers give livebirth?

I had some aphids sticking in the buds of my most heavily infested plant. I noticed they kind of swarmed to certain areas and upon inspection with a microscope I realized they were giving birth or laying eggs on the bud leaves. I saw a few leaves that had an adult flyer and 3-5 little baby "root aphids". Some looked like baby flyers and others looked like little crabs/spiders. However, none of them really looked like there were living. The next day I noticed they were all dead on the leaves.

So do these babies born in the buds survive??? I didn't think this would be a good environment for babies as they have the light beating down on them, wind, and it wouldn't be very moist. I assumed they needed saturated soil... but I don't know. If these aphids do survive born in the top buds, what would they do then? Do they crawl down to the soil and start the lifecycle over again? Or would they eat bud/leaf matter like regular aphids?? Damn, these things are versatile little bastages!

My biggest plant was infested with these root aphids and sure enough A magnesium deficiency started. On the bright side of thing's the plant turned out to be a male.

So far I have not seen any fliers since the removal. although, Chances are high that there's one of those little bastards in another pot about to pop out a few children I hope not because I really dont want to scrap this grow.

1st real grow with my new light turned out to be 5 males and 0 females

2nd real grow I started with 11 plants hoping to get atleast a 50/50 ratio, so far on the 2nd grow ive had 2 males and 4 weaklings that have been culled. Out of the 5 remaining plants Ive got 1 female and the rest havent shown me their goodies yet.

First seed purchase WILL BE FEMINIZED! imTired of starting over because of males

icmag.is.#1 said:

My biggest plant was infested with these root aphids and sure enough A magnesium deficiency started. On the bright side of thing's the plant turned out to be a male.

So far I have not seen any fliers since the removal. although, Chances are high that there's one of those little bastards in another pot about to pop out a few children I hope not because I really dont want to scrap this grow.

1st real grow with my new light turned out to be 5 males and 0 females

2nd real grow I started with 11 plants hoping to get atleast a 50/50 ratio, so far on the 2nd grow ive had 2 males and 4 weaklings that have been culled. Out of the 5 remaining plants Ive got 1 female and the rest havent shown me their goodies yet.

First seed purchase WILL BE FEMINIZED! imTired of starting over because of males

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Get nematodes. If your population isn't too high yet then they should work pretty well at keeping them in check.

root aphids

root aphids

I just started growing indoor for my first time. I got clones from the local dispencery. I thought I was well on my way to healthy grow until I noticed that my plants were drooping over and weren't doing well at all. My first thoughts were that I was over-watering and adding to much nutrients, which I believe was a bit of the problem that I was having. I backed off on watering and starting using less nutrients. This seemed to help but my plants were still stressed out. A week later I noticed little bugs all around my rock-wool and in my hydroponic planter, and after doing research I found out that I have root aphids! Nasty little fuckers! I have been treating with fox farm dont bug me insect spray, which has pyrethrin extract. I was told to add a healthy amount and mix it in with the water and nutrients to flush these punks out. So far it has been keeping them under control, but it has not solved the problem. Every 4 to 5 days there seems to be a new colony that comes back. I have been repeating the flush every 4 days to keep these critters under control. I have heard that this stuff will kill the aphids but not the eggs that they lay. I have read a lot on these forums and I think i'm going to try something a little bit stronger. I want to keep my plants all organic and thats why i'm using the organic fox farm solution, but I have a feeling i am going to be spending a lot of money on this stuff to keep these beasts under control. So now I think it's time to try and go with something much stronger. I'm not quite sure exactly what I am going to use yet but I have written down a lot of the bug spray solutions that people have suggested to get rid of this problem. If i have learned anything so far it is do not get clones from any source unless you are completely sure where your plants are coming from, and make certain that the source you are getting them from are completely bug free. I am gonna ride this cycle out but after this I am probably going to order seeds on the internet so I am sure that I am not getting any bug infested clones. Also another thing is before you start your grow room definitely take bug preventative measures. Clean the crap out of the room with a bleach and water mix and clean all utensils aiding you in your grow room, and I would suggest even painting your walls. Hope none of you ever get these things they suck. If anyone has some root aphid plant rescue stories, please I would love to hear from you, peace out!

Imidachlorpid - more specifically Bayer Citrus - was my magic bullet - did a pyreth spray too but they came right back - treated with imid, they r gone... how long u got till harvest? if u have 50+days, use imid and if it works on the ones u have (seems to on most) youll be good with just 1 or 2 treatments. And it only costs 20 bucks for a bottle thatll prolly last me 5+years with how little you need.