Mediumless germination from seed - need help

I'm *trying* to go mediumless in a true aero unit that I've built.

The problem is I have no access to clones, so I'm having to go from seed.
1st attempt I germed in paper towel and then dropped into 1.5" rockwool cubes. Waiting until I saw the taproot hit the bottom of the cube and then *very* gently picked the rockwool away and stuck the little seedlings into the aero unit. This *almost* worked but they were definitely hurt by me picking the rockwool away and wound up very stunted.

I need a good, step-by-step of how to germinate seeds and get them into a mediumless aero unit.

My 2nd attempt, which is underway, I germed them in a papertowel until they popped their little helmets and then wrapped a very small piece of neoprene pipe insulation around their necks and stuck them into a small bubbler. No idea if this is going to work or not....just put them in the bubbler and hour ago.

If someone has a tried and true method to accomplish this, please let me know.....and especially now that OG is gone, I've not had much luck finding examples.

Thanks in advance!

The best way I've found to germinate for mediumless systems is to germinate the seeds in a cup of perlite. About 9-11 days after germination, transplant them into my mediumless system. It's easy to rinse the perlite out the roots with a very gentle stream of water (not cold water, but room temp).

I've seen people take a piece of plastic, punch a hole in it just large enough to accommodate the root (which indents the plastic slightly), set the seed into that indentation, and then float it on top of bubbling water. The same basic idea could be used with styrofoam or closed cell foam.

Hey Amber....

Thanks for the info. A few more questions, if you don't mind.
I read/saw in one of your grow threads how you germ'd them in the plastic cups with perlite. I also noticed that it seems you *do* feed them nutes even before they are in your bubbler. Most of the stuff I read always says no nutes until about 2 weeks. Can you elaborate on that a bit?

And what about a humdity dome? Do you put the plastic cups inside/under a dome and if so, at what point do you remove it?

Also, you said after about 9-11 days they go into the bubbler. Is there something specific you are looking for in that timeframe before they go into the bubbler? i.e. 2nd or 3rd set of true leaves?

Sorry for all the "basic" questions, but I'm tired of loosing seedlings.

Last, I noticed in one of your grow threads you were talking about growing some Jillybean (I think)? If so, how did it turn out? I just ordered 10 of those seeds because it just *looks* so good! Was curious how yours did.

Thanks!!

i use a "seed raft"

the raft is simply a piece of 1/2" styrofoam w/ small holes (just big enough to 'plant' a sprout into). under the raft sits an airstone. ya can see the water bubble up thru the holes.

i plant the sprout (tap root down) into the raft under a small clf. once the roots grow to about 6" long they can be transplanted into net cups, or a pool noodle if your going mediumless. into the bubbler they go.

i do use a dome for 'till the first set of true leaves develop. as for nutes, i use fish water from the beginning.

i too, use the raft method.



but i germ this way too.


i wrap the seeds in a small piece of toilet paper, then stick it in the hole in the neoprene puck.

make sure that the tip is pointing down, and that you can see the top of the seed.

i lose too many seedlings by pregerming and transplanting into the pucks from the sandwich baggie method.

flgreyhound said:

Thanks for the info. A few more questions, if you don't mind. I read/saw in one of your grow threads how you germ'd them in the plastic cups with perlite. I also noticed that it seems you *do* feed them nutes even before they are in your bubbler. Most of the stuff I read always says no nutes until about 2 weeks. Can you elaborate on that a bit?

And what about a humdity dome? Do you put the plastic cups inside/under a dome and if so, at what point do you remove it?

Click to expand...

OK, here goes...

First, I soak the seeds for 24 hours in pH adjusted RO water that has a couple drops of H2O2 added. The H2O2 will kill any bacteria clinging to the seed shells and will help to soften the shell.

I use 16 oz cups filled with perlite (punch 4-5 holes in the bottom of the cup for drainage). Pre-soak the perlite using pH adjusted water (I adjust to around 5.5). Perlite will wick the water up from the bottom or you can pour it over the top and let it flow through; if you let it flow through, the perlite will compact - loosen the perlite before putting the seeds in by rolling the cup between your hands.

When I'm ready to put the seeds in, I make a shallow hollow spot at the top and put just a small pinch of vermiculite in (about 1/4 tsp). The vermiculite will hold a bit more moisture than the perlite will, which will help soften the shell of the seed and keep moisture around the seedling. Lightly mix the vermiculite into the perlite just in that area. Place the seed in, cover lightly with about 1/8" of perlite/vermiculite, mist to make sure the top has all the moisture it needs, and cover with a piece of plastic wrap. The cups go in a container that has about 1/4" of pH adjusted RO water in it so the seeds can stay moist.

The container goes in a warm spot (usually one of my cupboards) to let the seeds germinate. They usually begin popping up above the level of the medium in around 24-36 hours. Remove the plastic wrap as soon as the seedling shows and put it under weak cool-spectrum lighting. I use CFL's (daylight or sunlight type) in a small Rubbermaid container garden I built (see the Rubbermaid Gardens link in my signature block).

Whether I feed depends on the seedlings. Some seeds I've grown did great without nutes until they were transplanted to a bubbler, but others have shown problems as early as the first set of real leaves. Before feeding them, I double check pH, temp, etc. If everything else is right, then I mix a very weak solution of nutes (around 100-150ppm) for the seedlings. Here's a pic of two seedlings that had a problem. You can see the tips of the leaves died off from before I fed them.


Here's a pic from a few days later.


Since the perlite & vermiculite are sterile and I use RO water which has had all minerals & stuff removed, the seedlings aren't getting ANYTHING to absorb except pure water. That is definitely NOT the way things work in nature; soil and water in nature all have nutrients the seedlings can use as needed.

flgreyhound said:

Also, you said after about 9-11 days they go into the bubbler. Is there something specific you are looking for in that timeframe before they go into the bubbler? i.e. 2nd or 3rd set of true leaves?

Click to expand...

Actually, I wait until I see the first root tip growing out of the bottom of a cup. As soon as I see the tip of a root, I know that the seedlings have long enough roots to do very well in a bubbler. They could probably be transplanted earlier, but I find this is a good rule because they usually also have a slightly stronger stem and will hold up to being transplanted better.

flgreyhound said:

Sorry for all the "basic" questions, but I'm tired of loosing seedlings.

Last, I noticed in one of your grow threads you were talking about growing some Jillybean (I think)? If so, how did it turn out? I just ordered 10 of those seeds because it just *looks* so good! Was curious how yours did.

Click to expand...

No problem - helping is what we're here for!

I actually decided to try some of the Orange Velvet BX seeds first (this is Jillybean's mother). The BX seeds were made by taking Jillybean and backcrossing it to the original Orange Velvet mother. They are still only about a month old, so I am waiting to see how they do, too!

Yep, cup of perlite or vermiculate works fine, tip on side and roll in a bowl of water perlite/verm just pours out and sprout floats to top. Transplant to pool noodle and presto.

krazycure said:

Yep, cup of perlite or vermiculate works fine, tip on side and roll in a bowl of water perlite/verm just pours out and sprout floats to top. Transplant to pool noodle and presto.

Click to expand...

I love pesto

Vermiculite, perlite, mixes of hydroton and perlite, anything hydro which easily rinses.

I literally grow the seed plant to about 4-6" in the starter cup. Usage of nutes is related to how bright the lighting is. I've had seedlings at full strength nutes within 10 days of dropping the seed hull.

Once the plant has a healthy shock of roots is when I transplant. Rinse all the media off then transplant to a foam disk around the stem, or put the roots near the bottom of a root cup and gently bury them with rinsed clay pebbles.

The hydro system should keep the roots damp. Netcups should have the nutrient level high enough to keep the pebbles damp. Plants in foam collars should have bubbles splashing nutrient on them constantly or the roots submerged.

No such thing as “mediumless”...

If your growing in water filled w nutrients, your medium is water.

Has anyone ever tried to germinate a seed directly in hydroton?

FishFlavoured said:

Has anyone ever tried to germinate a seed directly in hydroton?

Click to expand...

Close. Since it's difficult to keep the seed at a specific point in hydroton, I added about 1.5 inches of perlite to my cups. The seeds were covered with almost an inch of perlite. Sprouted great.

Perlite sounds like a good idea. I was going to find all of the smally bits of hydroton and use that to hold the seed in place. Same idea as the perlite, I suppose.


I just don't want to take a seedling from dirt and put it into hydro. First, it can shock the plant and stress it. Secondly, I don't want any dirt clinging to the roots and providing a starting point for rot/disease.


I would consider keeping a mother and just cloning but I want to try lots of different strains and we will be, once it is legal, limited to growing only 4 plants at a time. If I had 3 mothers, I could only grow 1 additional plant. Mind you, if I got 4-5 oz. off one plant every 3 months, I could keep 3 mothers...hmmmmm. 3 mothers - a sativa, an indica and a nice hybrid.


So, I'll make another post regarding the 3 choices...

I vote for perlite then a rinse and into a collar.

I would graft strains onto a mother tree to get around the plant count issue.

Sprout in seedling mix, then rinse the mix off in a bowl of cool/bucket of cool water when the plant is 6" tall.




Let it soak for 10 minutes or so and then 'tickle' the dirt out of the roots very gently.

Grafting...

Grafting...

mean mr.mustard said:

I would graft strains onto a mother tree to get around the plant count issue.

Click to expand...

Brilliant! Ingenious.



Devious super-villain type genius.