Why is Organic Cannabis better?

My understanding is that with organic amendments and a proper soil food web, the soil and plant are a single living system.

The microbiological life in the soil works in response to the plants needs to supply it more balanced nutrition then water soluble fertilizers can on their own.

This dynamic ecosystem has a stronger resistance to predators and disease than an environment that contains mostly raw elements and little biodiversity.

This issue is seen all the time in large scale mono-crop agriculture. A lack of diversity leads to an imbalance in the system and certain diseases and predators thrive in these conditions.

In a strictly controlled indoor environment I think you can get away using a sterile medium and salt based ferts but the way I see it organics provide an extra level of nourishment to the plants that makes them stronger.

I think the extra level of nourishment also encourages better overall health and quality of flowers in the plants as well, giving them the ability to produce certain terpenes and cannabinoids in more abundance than normal.

DiscoBiscuit said:

Chemicals? Your mean NPK? I think we're in agreement though. Salts are bad only if they're over applied, ends up in the water table and that's people's fault not salts.

Sometimes I think peeps imagine salt ferts as spewing from the mud valve of some nasty industrial plant. They're called chemicals for a reason. N, P, K and other elements the cannabis plant uses are part of the Periodic Table Of (chemical) Elements. Your best organic formula breaks down into these same (chemical) elements before the plant receives nutrients.

One advantage with chemical nutes is flushing or knowing when to stop adding salts near harvest. Organic compounds don't have to be flushed because roots aren't able to absorb anything until these compounds are broken down. But many growers have a load of organic compounds left over at chop time. These compounds continue to break down before and right through harvest. IMO, is what makes organic not taste as good as properly depleted salts.

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I see organics being more intuitive than chem (salts). Many growers get fantastic results with lucas or maxibloom tbs per gallon KISS & ph up. With what Ive learned about organics I can grow just about any crop with found materials. (see jaykush)

salts = exact science
organics = art

I think we all can agree that the plant we are growing evolved in a organic system and innately organic. Therefore would benefit from an organic enviroment that provides nutrients and shelter beyond NPK + micros

an example is
plant roots produce exudates waste that would normally be ate by the sorrounding microbiology but in a resevoir that is sterile those exudates cause ph swings and nutrient imbalance. Kinda like living in a porta potty. The first week is ok the 2nd week is kinda a funky the third week gotta call the honey dipper to change that shit.

Tilt said:

an example is
plant roots produce exudates waste that would normally be ate by the sorrounding microbiology but in a resevoir that is sterile those exudates cause ph swings and nutrient imbalance. Kinda like living in a porta potty. The first week is ok the 2nd week is kinda a funky the third week gotta call the honey dipper to change that shit.

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5 to 10% runoff avoids the nasty buildup. I'm not too worried about by product, it rinses with the salts.

Granted, one has to deal with the excess salts that accumulate. I have a nice hedge of azaleas that can handle all the runoff they get.

salts = exact science
organics = art

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That's an excellent way to put it. I'd include science in organics because one practically has to be a botanist to get it right, lol. j/k

all I can say is once you've grown a quality ORGANIC CROP you're converted for ever,

I have smoked and grown a shit load of Purple Kush, it's a staple in my hood

so I used this plant for my first organic grow and OMG at week 7.5 of flower my organic show distroyed the quality of previously grown PK.

I mean the colours were more apparently bright, the smell was deeper and intoxicating,
but the smoke was out of this world, I have been smoking this organic crop for some time now and it always gets me high... that's new.

Plus the plants live longer. I mean when using chem's the plants begin to die sooner in flower,
my PK was always dead by week 10'ish if using chem's, but in organic the plants could go 12 for sure...

grow organic and be converted for ever...

B. Friendly said:

all I can say is once you've grown a quality ORGANIC CROP you're converted for ever,

I have smoked and grown a shit load of Purple Kush, it's a staple in my hood

so I used this plant for my first organic grow and OMG at week 7.5 of flower my organic show distroyed the quality of previously grown PK.

I mean the colours were more apparently bright, the smell was deeper and intoxicating,
but the smoke was out of this world, I have been smoking this organic crop for some time now and it always gets me high... that's new.

Plus the plants live longer. I mean when using chem's the plants begin to die sooner in flower,
my PK was always dead by week 10'ish if using chem's, but in organic the plants could go 12 for sure...

grow organic and be converted for ever...

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PS a good organic grower gets the same results easily with their girls, 1gram per watt is always the bench mark.

Tackling the yeild issue. I personally have found that I like smaller buds in the taste department. I know we smoke or eat with our eyes first and bigger is better. But I have found miniture snickers taste better than king size snickers. Why, because the ratios of nugett peanuts and chocolate. I apply the same concept to small buds. Those smaller buds have had more airflow, surface exposed to light to mature the trichs etc. I, like every gardener get excited by a good size bud, but there is something to be said for the small sticky crystal covered mature popcorn. Some salt fed plants look like they are on steroids. Surface to mass ratio so out of whack that the grower has to now worry about bud rot mold stem breakage and other nasties without a systemic defense that an organic plant would have. Im not saying organics cant be blessed with these issues.

Another interesting comparison, Tilt. I've always liked my squash and cucumber small. But I never met a big tomato I didn't like. Snickers is my favorite, I'll have to pick up a bag.

Another interesting point about mass. W/o the oil to back it up, mass is less appealing overall.

I grow using hempy style growing the last 3 grows and now that my set up is down until may I will be starting up completely organic when I set back up because it's easier and besides feeding a tea every other feeding just feed ro water and your done and all you need is 3 gallon bags a cheap $500 cement mixer from home depot to completely mix your soil and you get better yields, no harsh hits to the lungs from not flushing good enough and quality grows..

All the Info is here just read, read, read..

It's better because you can put that little cool green organic label on the nug jars!

I like and use both ways and they both can yield very well done right, I am torn.

Its funny, the only time i see chem yield more than organic is in a hydroponic situation, thats the past however. Thats only because there was no full organic hydro. I think nowadays yield is highly comparable between true organics and full chem.

I stay with organic because i can grow my own nutrients. Not have to worry about over or underfeeding nor have to worry about pH. Organic is just much simpler and cheaper to me. I hated using chems...

For "peer reviewed opinions" on the matter, modern science would have to be aware of many of the reasons why organic is better.. No doubt there are many reasons that they do not yet understand.

Imagine explaining myccorhizal relationships before they discovered them.. Some things are too complex for modern science, this is one of them! Nuff Said!!

imadoofus said:

chems all day.
side-by-side of organic(LOL!) vs chem, the chem wins everytime. bigger, healthier, more robust growth.

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Please show me your "side-by-side" evidence for this, thanks.

I believe the benefits from organic gardening really come full circle the more you realise you aren't just supporting a plant but an ecosystem. You can grow some amazing cannabis in a non organic medium pumped full of petroleum based fertilizers. However the plants needs are not fufilled nearly as synergistically as when you provide a living soil which naturaly buffers ph, regulates water delivery to roots, supplies only the nutrients necessary, allows symbiotic fungus to aid the plants roots, etc. Sure initially this requires much more commitment than your standard chem grows. This isn't the type of enviroment produced simply by buying a couple of bottles of organic fertiliser, this is much more. Usually including producing your own compost, brewing your own teas using ewc, guanos, mollases, kelp, etc., using non chlorinated water sources (personal preference rain or snow.), creating a pest prevention system because in organics prevention is far less stressful on the plants than all out annihilation. The list goes on i believe there are many techniques which could prove to be hugely beneficial like: companion planting, green manures, bio char, further varieties of fungal relationships, etc. Those who believe that chem ferts have the same value as organic practices probably haven't even scratced the surface of whats out there. Because maybe the plant doesn't know the difference between synthetic "N" and organic "N" but it sure as hell nows when it has a whole team of super hero friends helping out.

To be honest the only thing i don't understand is why are we so caught up in these products. We hate paying for expensive gas but people throw money at bottled nutes. One gal chem= full tank of gas. As humans we must really love petroleum products to just throw it on everything, even when not necessary.

I wonder if fish like chem or organic better haha?

imadoofus said:

chems all day.

side-by-side of organic(LOL!) vs chem, the chem wins everytime. bigger, healthier, more robust growth.

.....

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so you cant do organics very well then

no yield issues here with organic.

tbh i think you can get chem weed smooth if you know what you are doing, but taste-wise, complexity of smell and flavour, organics done well should win every time. perhaps its akin to wine's Terroir?

i know a couple of commercial chem growers who are swimming in their chem buds, - but they would happily spend their money on my organic nugs if i was prepared to sell them - even though my 250w scrog nugs look a bit weedy compared to their 600/1000W colas.

VG

Verdant green said it best. No valid comeback possible, This one's a rap!!

i grow both chem and organic, but given a choice i'll smoke the stuff i do natures way. nothing scientific here IMHO it tastes, smells, smokes and hits you better. i have more respect for what comes out of a bats bung hole than for what comes out of A.N,'s Big Mike"s pie hole. Ma' Nature has forgotten more about this game than any of us will ever know ... the defense rests

Chems over organics every day. Definitely for indoor growers, and probably for most outdoor growers if they'd try it. Here's why:

I have done a side by side with organic vs chems in my 8kw grow in my sig. The organic side yielded about 10% less, and cost about twice as much to feed (Pura Vida organics vs AN Sensi.) Smell and taste were not improved with organics, and there was less of it to smoke. So let's not compare organic food, meat and milk, but organic weed to salt-fert weed, shall we?

Since taste and smell are subjective they don't really deserve any room in this discussion, but for the record, my salt-fed weed tastes better than my buddies organic weed, and we grow the same strains. His weed all tastes and smells the same (like guanos), regardless of the strain. Mine suffer no such afflictions and are widely varied. since he doesn't flush and I do, my weed also burns smoother, cleaner, and doesn't make me cough. Burns to pure white ash.

In indoor crops, (referred to as short-cycle crops in the agricultural world) there isn't enough time for the soil to develop the intricate hyphae and mycorrhizal webs that digest organic sources for food, hence the slightly lower growth rates and yields in most cases. Guys who reuse their soil indoors don't suffer from this of course, but most indoor growers don't use recylced soil. Salt ferts are deployed in an immediately usable and available format to the plants roots, no digestion buffer of microlife required.

Outdoors organics are widely employed due to their ease of use. However, the same plants grown in say, MPB buckets outside with salt ferts would almost certainly out-yield organic plants.

Organic fertilizers like guanos often have high levels of arsenic and lead in them, and though this happens with some chemicals too, it's easier to find good chems than good organic amendments IMO. Salt ferts can be had cheaper than organics, are more concentrated, and are just as easy to apply.


Ok we will digress into organic vs hydro food as a footnote:
Any of you ever seen Penn and Teller's show Bullshit? They did a fun one on organics, and showed pretty plainly that organics is just the latest marketing fad. Researchers came on and explained that organic food is no better for you, and through some simple "man on the street" testing showed that 9 of 10 people preferred the NON-organic produce compared to the organics.

Did you know that if all of the arable land on Earth was used for organic farming, 2 billion people would starve to death? Organic farming uses FAR more water than hydorponic farms. Organic crops are no match for the yields in hydroponic strawberry and tomato farms (almost 10X more yield per acre) Check out Norman Borlaug's work and look into the purity of organic crops. Every time there has been a salmonella or E. Coli outbreak it's been on some organic farm. Most of the materials used in organic fertilizers aren't pure enough to be used in hydro. Amish farmers have been polluting the ground with so much manure over the years to try and increase their yields, they have been cited for polluting the groundwater and forced to stop it.

Since arable land is disappearing at an alarming rate due to desertification and rising waters, making the best use of every acre will be crucial for the survival of the human race. Do you want to help humanity or do you care more about the nonsensical organic hype? Right now there are 2 acres of arable land per person on the planet. In 20 years it will be .25 acres.

You can argue opinions all day long, but you can't argue facts! if anyone is too lazy to look up the data let me know and I will post all the facts you can stand (and then some.)

Chems and hydro are the future of food, organics are the antiquated way it was done 100 years ago. Let's get with the times people!

Moral of the story is grower skill trumps all. I would gladly put my chem weed up against any organics in the world and defy you to pick them out of a lineup. A good flush and a good cure levels the playing field in taste, smell, and smoothness. Since I'm an indoor grower primarily, I'll take the extra yield and precision of the salt ferts and enjoy the simplicity of a "no-mixing required" medium. If all else is equal, why wouldn't you want the extra yield?

They don't call organic farming 'sustainable' for no reason.

If it were sustainable, hydroponic farming would not be needed at all. Check this page out and see why organic farming is not a sustainable model for feeding Earth: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Borlaug