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Cannabis Seeds Transported by Birds?
- Thread starter Emil Muzz
- Start date
Very unlikely. It's more that birds like pigeons swallow the whole grains/seeds and 'chew/grind' them with/in their gizzard. This process may not be entirely efficient and now and then a seed/grain withstands the whole digestive tract and gets dropped with some fertiliser at the bird's other end. Also, grains transported in their beak (to feed their squabs) may get dropped accidentally (obviously, this time without the fertiliser
).Didn't read the unrelated article...
A more probable way of seed transport would be with rodents or mouth pouch animals. Of course these would be seeds that have dropped from the plant. It wouldn’t be long distances as I think you were inferring with birds. I’ve seen bird seed gardens produced by chipmunks and mice where they collected seeds and then buried them for the future. If they don’t come back and get them (as if they even remember) they sprout.
Happens often with birds too
. That they forget seeds is actually very clever and guarantees the survival and proliferation of the fodder plants. Don't know if they do it on purpose or maybe they can't remember because gathering birds (e.g. jaybirds) much like dormice and squirrels harvest way too much to handle .You’re right, I’ve seen Jays gorge themselves on sunflower seeds, loading up their croup, then fly a short distance and start cracking them open. I’m sure some may fall astray.
Birds could easily disperse pot seed, particularly pigeons & doves. I kept pigeons in my teens. They swallow large quantities of grain into their crop, ahead of the stomach & gizzard, regurgitate it from their beaks into the beaks of their young. It's still whole, sometimes wet, & it's a pretty messy process. Seed is inevitably lost to some degree or another. Wild flocks can travel fairly large distances when foraging, feed together, nest as colonies in other areas. With lots of flocks & lots of shifting territories over lots of time, they'll randomly transport all sorts of seeds across the range of the population.
Emil Muzz
Member
Very unlikely. It's more that birds like pigeons swallow the whole grains/seeds and 'chew/grind' them with/in their gizzard. This process may not be entirely efficient and now and then a seed/grain withstands the whole digestive tract and gets dropped with some fertiliser at the bird's other end. Also, grains transported in their beak (to feed their squabs) may get dropped accidentally (obviously, this time without the fertiliser
Didn't read the unrelated article...
I disagree. Having removed seeds from buds I was struck how efficiently the resin acts as a glue and how often the seeds would stick strongly to my fingers. Cannabis resin is fairly tenacious as a glue just speak to the Gorilla Glue growers or to Sam about the "Italian Test".
My thought is that if burst cannabis trichomes cause seeds to adhere so strongly to bare fingers the effect would stronger on feathers or fine fur- both of which have a larger surface area with which to be covered by the resin (also it's not subject to the sort of stretching that bare skin is which could remove seeds on its own) and the resiny strands of feather and fur will be prone to sticking together holding the seed tightly until it is brushed off, preened off or simply drops off with the natural shedding of fur or feathers: this fur or feathers would be a small start of nutrients for a young plant.
So I believe that is possible cannabis resin is adapted in part to aid the disbursement of the seeds.
Gram Paw smurf
Member
Comparing what we know as weed today to anything remotely relevant to weeds natural adaptations/evolution is like apples n oranges though as we're the ones that've been in full control of its evolution for a good while now.
It doesn't produce a fraction of its resin production capabilities for any other reason than ppl having selected n bred for it.
It's got zip to do with any sort of natural evolutionary selection anymore.
cheers,...........................................................gps
It doesn't produce a fraction of its resin production capabilities for any other reason than ppl having selected n bred for it.
It's got zip to do with any sort of natural evolutionary selection anymore.
cheers,...........................................................gps
Your scenario is rather unlikely (apart maybe from the Himalayas) because the plants you're speaking of usually don't stand around fully seeded and half dead awaiting some birds to drop by to pick on their ripe nuts... Just saying...
I think that's Def true for domesticated & semi domesticated varieties of interest, no doubt. Humans have been stoners for at least 2700 years-
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2008/12/03/huge-stash-marijuana-found-in-ancient-tomb/
Check the links at the bottom, too.
Wherever it originated, humans have selected for that & other purposes, carried it all over the world.
Emil Muzz
Member
How do you know this? You haven't provided any evidence to the contrary and what I am suggesting is hardly outlandish- that the resin could cause seeds to stick to animals for random disbursement.
How I know this? Maybe you misunderstand what I meant: GPS's stated that modern cannabis varieties have more resin than their wild ancestors. That may be true for drug type cannabis, no objection there. But this sort of plant is used as drug (and often sinsemilla for that matter) harvested often before full seed ripening.
But the wild, feral, and industrial hemp varieties have never been bred for high resin content so GPS's assumption has no rational basis.
Evidence? Deduction my good Watson!
Concerning your opinion, I'm not saying it were impossible and would never happen, just that it is very unlikely. That means it could happen but many more times the transportation of seeds will not rely on resin sticking to fur or whatever. It's also unlikely from a logic point of view, because the calyxes are more sticky before full seed ripening and the calyxes are better attached to the plant then ripe seeds. If your 'glue hypothesis' would contribute to seed distribution there would also be an evolutionary benefit to which the plant would adapt. Though in general, seeds which stick to fur (and seldom feathers) tend to either stick by themselves or to take the outer 'sticky organ' with them. Cannabis at seed maturity has less sticky resin than shortly before; logic implies that the resin is some sort of protection (glueing the birds beaks) of unripe seeds. Ripe ones stick out of the calyxes and come off quite easily without getting sticky all over. Noteworthy, birds don't rub charas and they pick seeds with the beak but hold to the plants with their feet
. It may be that a bear rolls himself in a cannabis field until he has collected enough hash on his fur to make him sticky from tip to toe... but seriously, how many times would this scenario contribute to seed distribution?Furthermore, the 'glue hypothesis' would decrease animal health (ever seen bird victims of an oil spill?) and has no 'come off' plan...
Read also your 'unrelated' quote:
True, transportation of plant matter over very long distances (like from continent to continent) is NOT possible via digestive tract because gastrointestinal passage time in birds is too short and mammals don't travel at the same speed and seldom over such long distances.
True, transportation of plant matter over very long distances (like from continent to continent) is NOT possible via digestive tract because gastrointestinal passage time in birds is too short and mammals don't travel at the same speed and seldom over such long distances.
Emil Muzz
Member
Seeds in wild buds are fertilised chaotically and consequently will ripen at different times throughout the flowering period of the plant. Meaning that there will be seeded calyxes amongst more resinous unseeded calyxes while the plant is still green and thriving.
The plant does not need to be dried to a crisp for the seeds to be ripe or ready to be disarticulated- I was recently removing perfectly ripe seeds from an Ace Malawi and a Sleeskunk halfway through flowering, my fingers were covered with resin and I could poke the seeds with a sticky finger and they would come out stuck to the tip of my finger. Other seeds would come away stuck to my fingers but still wearing their calyx.
Why should any of this not happen to other seed gathering animals?
The plant does not need to be dried to a crisp for the seeds to be ripe or ready to be disarticulated- I was recently removing perfectly ripe seeds from an Ace Malawi and a Sleeskunk halfway through flowering, my fingers were covered with resin and I could poke the seeds with a sticky finger and they would come out stuck to the tip of my finger. Other seeds would come away stuck to my fingers but still wearing their calyx.
Why should any of this not happen to other seed gathering animals?
Emil Muzz
Member
I have not claimed intercontinental travel of seeds in this thread, have I? The article simply brought forward an idea that resin could help seeds adhere and travel on browsing animals.
Emil Muzz
Member
Your experiment doesn't simulate animal browsing.
Have I said you did? It's simply a further clarification of MY former post about birds transporting seeds via intestinal tract
.Still, your article implies intercontinental transport... though of microscopically small plant particles (mainly mosses) interlaced with down feathers (i.e. IN not ON the plumage).
But I understand your point that the article by itself has no weight and no rational contribution to the topic apart from being the source of your inspiration.
Actually, after proper consideration... long distance transportation via birds IS possible ROFLMAO!
