Organic, Non Organic Soil recipes... post recipes and results or other observations

In the quest for the perfect cannabis soil indoors or outdoors we all have had success and failure im sure?

I want to hear about it all the hopefully we can help each other.
The first "popular" recipe I tried did not do very well at all.

It was very dense, the nutrients were too hot for seedlings, clones...
There was also a lack of K (potassium)

Here is the recipe I used kinda
(im sure there is a better way to mix it?)
Advice appreciated!

I think this is the first part I messed up (8 - 1.5 cubic ft bags of high quality base soil)
I used a heavy organic soil very compact poor drainage...
Then I had nutrient problems deficiencies excess nutrients toxicity
So I was going to get it tested and I didnt want to waste money on a fancy test if it was not the right test.
I went over the recipe and added up some numbers


Anyone have any suggestions for veg and flower NPK ?
Hemp or cannabis cultivation nutrient recommendations?

Don't see the recipe you used in your post?

Check the link in my sig if you want to see a time line of different soils used and how they affected the same plant. Bit of a read, but it really goes in depth to show how minor/major adjustments really play into plant expression and performance.

Feel free to ask any questions related to that post in PM or this thread.

As far as soil test, go for the Mehlich 3.



dank.Frank

I added a picture dont know why its not showing up?

8 - 1.5 cubic ft bags of high quality base soil 12cu ft
1 33lb. bag of Worm Castings
2.5 lbs. Fish Bone Meal 3 16 0
5 lbs. High Phosphorus Bat Guano 1 10 1
5 lbs. Blood Meal 12 0 0
2.5 lbs. Bone Meal 3 15 0
3 cups. Oyster Shell
3 cups. Kelp Meal 1 0 2
3 cups Alfalfa Meal 2.5 0.5 2.5
3/4 cup Epsom Salt 22.5 41.5 5.5 These were my totals from above
1 cup Dolomite Lime
2 cups Azomite
2 TBS powdered Humic Acid

To the side is the NPK then the totals they look better in the spread sheets

Im just getting into looking at your* recipes,
You have some nice looking formulas there
Are you adding the basic ammendment mix to the personal potting mix?

acespicoli said:

Are you adding the basic ammendment mix to the personal potting mix?

Click to expand...

Yes. The intention of that thread is to give people a basic starting point from which to build on and further refine to their own liking. I don't view it as the end all be all. I have an amendment recipe that is proprietary that I prefer to use over the basic formulation. It will however, allow someone who has never grown cannabis to have a very successful crop of which the quality will be superior to any back of the bottle directions you'll find. Follow directions and water. Can't be any simpler.

The potting media itself, is exactly what I use.

The personal potting media can actually be used with ANY organic fertilizer recipe, which is in part why the listing is for a 1.5 cu ft batch. (standard commercial bag of potting soil) A potting soil is all about proper tilth. You have to have the right combination of drainage + plus water retention. You have to have porosity for oxygen in the root zone to help sustain an active biological presence. You have to have enough basic organic matter for decomposition into humus.

I've grown in lots of different media types and at the end of the day personally prefer a media that is largely based on actual SOIL. Peat/Coir based medias have there cons and perks, but there is something special about using real dirt. Go figure.



dank.Frank

Soil can be as simple or as complicated as you want to make it.

I wanted to grow organically,and limit processed chemicals when possible.

I luckily have free municipal compost, if you dont consider gas money and sweat to load it
EWC (Earth Worm Castings) purchased from a composter down the street a retired veteran farmer.
I can also get oyster shell flour for next to nothing locally.

Still the soil was very compact and didn't drain very well...
I added a lot of builder sand (3 bags) it was like $2 a 40 lb bag at the hardware store
The builder sand was nice because it had a lot of silt in it
The play sand was very clean not what I want for this project (silt is good!)

Also I picked up a square bale of peat moss it was very inexpensive, the mix felt great

Now you could take a handful make a ball and throw it in the pile
and it would crumble apart (perfect)

I got this cheap soil test $15



After I take what I can get locally and mix it, add some amendments
I added some blood meal for N (nitrogen) some lime to bring up the PH to 6.5
Still I didnt have a good source of K (potassium)

In the search for potassium I looked into potash
im always cooking bbq and have hardwood charcoal ashes to throw in the garden.
This is approximately 10% (K) potassium by weight I believe correct me if im wrong on any of this please.

The other thing I found that seemed attractive was langbeinite

Langbeinite is a potassium magnesium sulfate mineral with the chemical formula K2Mg2(SO4)3.


Evaporite is a name for a water-soluble mineral sediment that results from concentration and crystallization by evaporation from an aqueous solution.
There are two types of evaporite deposits: marine, which can also be described as ocean deposits,
and non-marine,
which are found in standing bodies of water such as lakes.
Evaporites are considered sedimentary rocks and are formed by chemical sediments.

This I found very interesting ... Water soluble nutrients high in K (potassium) ?
I guess the rain falls dissolves minerals then run into the creeks to the streams rivers and eventually in to the ocean deposits.

Polyhalite is used as a fertilizer since it contains four important nutrients and is low in chloride:

48% SO3 as sulfate
14% K2O as from sulfate of potash
6% MgO as from magnesium sulfate
17% CaO as from calcium sulfate

hmmm anyone ever tried Polyhalite?

I was off on my wood ash and potassium heres some organics hope it helps someone

Planning on adding Ph values as I find them


I would like to add these to the forum in spread sheet format open office. I will add a link soon...

Here are some inorganics alot easier to work ppm with this ?
Maybe not if I know percentages of NPK and Ca Mg SO2


I would like to add these to the forum in spread sheet format open office. I will add a link soon...

What exactly is your end goal? You can guess all day long at what you theoretically can do to the soil.

Until you grow something in it to see how it performs or get a REAL soil test to access what is actually in the soil, you really aren't addressing any actual soil problems. Only theoretical one.



dank.Frank

The end goal I guess is to fix the soil that I have already mixed,
I really liked the The revised NSPB mix: you have listed is that the $ one or do you have recipe amounts?

So im going to get a test m3 and sme is what I had in mind...
The other thing I had in mind is getting a plant material test sample for what the plant uses in a grow
I actually have the numbers for a hemp sample that was tested, a seed and leaf sample.

Then I want to perfect my own recipe, and reuse my soil till its too salty to rinse.
What do you think buddy? btw you sell a product, if so could you tell me about it?

I do not sell a product. That's why I posted the basic amendment recipe. Sort of a middle ground. A way to help others and not be "greedy" but still not give away what took me many years to figure out.

Your soil should never get "too salty to rinse" or grow in for that matter. Flushing is hydro mentality and does not apply to growing in soils - especially not organic soils. Feed the soil, not the plant. Take care of the soil and learn how to properly foster it as a living organism. If the soil is healthy, the plants grown in it will be too.

That being said, it is easy enough to create a mix of nutrition that will provide a plant with adequate nutrition. The complication comes when you re-use a soil and have to re-amend the soil to ensure proper balance of nutrition in respect to the % of various elements.

Part of what makes this difficult in an organic system is variable release rates and varying degrees of biological activity in different soils, which has a direct affect on bio-availability.



dank.Frank

I thought you had a proprietary recipe you were using, I didn't understand
Definately appreciate the recipes you shared brother, they look great and introduced me to some things

I have never seen before.
BioVam (myco ?) staments has a really nice blend too!
BioAg Vam (Humic Fumic acid Fe) Iron water soluble form, this is nice!
Sul-Po-Mg (sulfur potassium magnesium?)
dry molasses (feeding microbes?)

You ever found a mixture of microbes that can be purchased (mineral eating microbes) ?

The Rock Eaters

Though eating electricity seems bizarre, the flow of current is central to life.
All organisms require a source of electrons to make and store energy.
They must also be able to shed electrons once their job is done.
In describing this bare-bones view of life,
Nobel Prize-winning physiologist Albert Szent-Györgyi once said,
“Life is nothing but an electron looking for a place to rest.”

BioVam (T and J Enterprises) and BioAg Vam (BioAg) are both beneficial bacteria products. I use both to offset the large amount of trichoderma in BioVam. However, the BioVam isn't just myco type bacteria. It is much more inclusive which is why I mix it directly into the soil.

Best way to utilize these products is to mix the BioVam directly into the soil and then apply the BioAg Vam to the roots/immediately surrounding soil during transplant.

Dry molasses is to provide carbs for bacteria but also serves as a long term / late nitrogen source, as the molasses is sprayed on soybean hulls. Stockade Kandy Kid.

Sul-Po-Mag / K-Mag / Langbeinite are all different names for the same product.

------------------

The NSPB mix is something I developed many years ago and was the first one step, water only, pre-packed retail organic amendment solution specifically designated for growing cannabis. I produced it on a very small scale and it was available in a few hydro shops for a brief period of time. I was working towards larger distribution and made the mistake of trusting a large supplier with the concept. Two weeks later, magically this supplier had a "new revolutionary" product he was introducing. That spurred dozens of people into doing essentially the same thing. Now there are many such solutions available and it makes zero sense for me to pursue bringing the product to retail.

I still use the NSPB formula when I grow.

The basic amendment recipe performs very well as a stand alone recipe. I call it basic simply because it produces a product that represents the bare minimum of what I'd expect to see from my garden, which by any given standard is still vastly superior to what most people are able to simply go out and purchase. (in terms of end product)

I'm not telling you to use that recipe as much as I was showing you conceptually, a set of ratios that might help you balance what you have on hand. That is also why I referred you to the organics for beginners thread, so you could see those ratios and hopefully gain another comparative basis from which to help guide you.

All these types of threads get 1000x more attention in the organic soil forum than they do in the botany section of the site. I replied to you knowing you likely wouldn't get many other responses given where the topic had been posted.



dank.Frank

Corporate greed terrible thing corporations have little to no conscience

I used to use baccto pro mix for years in the 80s then it was really hard to find
Shipping soil to any other place besides my garden center was costly...

So soil and manure its kinda boring, stream sediments commercial fertilizers
Over the past 25 years growing I grew some nice plants saw some decent harvests.

It used to be that simple put a seed in dirt add water sunlight and watch it grow.
I wont get into too many growing details just a superior potting mix is what im looking for now.

I wanna work the soil and discuss the soil the grow see the results and hear the theories
Also I kinda like to geek you know get into all the details and science. I hope this thread gets even more exciting than it is already.

I have been top feeding kelp meal and unsulfured molasses.
Since I plan to go way off topic of just soil mixes I wanted a outlet for it

I sincerely appreciate your replies
Looked at that bk X ?? bx2 pretty!
Are you sharing pedigree details or is that kinda like coca cola? haha
Drop a pic of that queen if you have one shes a winner?

Any advice along the way is more than welcome!

To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower, William Blake

BKGK Bx1 = BKGK x (BKGK x Digi Bx1)

BKGK = Bubba Kush x Grape Krush - seeds made by Retardo Motabon, pheno selected by Phillthy.

Digi Bx1 = Digi x (Digi x Sour Bubble Bx2) - seeds made by Chili Berkster, male selected by me.

Here's the BKGK x Digi Bx1 male that was selected to make the outcross:



Original BKGK clone:






Resulting BKGK Bx1:






All the plants pictured here were grown using my basic amendment recipe. A few hundred of those Bx1 seeds were sold and to this day I've not seen one person grow them out. Kind of a bummer. Lots of good plants in that seed line.



dank.Frank

From the seed to the soil through the grow and genetics back to the seed...
That is art you are a artist, dankety dank dankfrank !
Really words don't describe.... I checked the seedbay too



You know how you go into a restaurant and order your favorite dish
and usually no two cooks can prepare it the same with identical ingredients?
That's art the one that tastes the best was prepared by a chef lol !

By the looks I can only imagine the smell taste and effects, much respect!

I appreciate the kindness, but the truth is I'm just another person that loves this plant and likes to grow.

I'm nobody special. Everything I know, I learned because of forums. I spent time in them and I took that time seriously. I gave back when I could. I still owe more than I could ever repay.

That's part of the reason I have that post in my signature. It isn't because it's the one and only way - but it is a way - for someone who has never grown to start out and get it right the first time. It's just a way to try and give back to a community that has given me so much.

The real praise goes to those who put down the ground work before me. Who taught me what I know. Who, through their own character, guided me and helped shape my perspective of what it means to be a grower. I'm forever grateful.

If I can even be 1% of what those before me were, then I'm at least on the right path.



dank.Frank