6" RW no growth, cubes not draining

Ogtg2213 · Apr 22, 2017

how do you know they will be fine after squeezing the cube out? What if there hungry? What if the ph is to high? What if nute solution is off? What if the cube is to cold/warm? It's not likely that the cube being to wet is his problem. He said they have good drainage and you would be hard pressed to over water rockwool on corrugated roofing, it holds so much air you need to either have it sitting in a pool of warm water or constantly be feeding oxygen depleted water to have those problems. It's likely a combination of things going on. Personally I would address them all and be done with it

Shouldn't squeeze rockwool either, you'll break down the fibers and it won't hold as much air. Set them on paper towel if you wanna wick out some water

sturgeongeneral · Apr 22, 2017

I run Rockwood cubes and I do it upon transplant every cycle. If they are hungry, foliar feed doknt keep oversaturating.

Ogtg2213 · Apr 22, 2017

Lots of ways to skin a cat sturgeon , I run rockwool in many different types of systems too. I also use my leaves for edibles so I've never foliage feed anything in my life. I just give the plant what it needs rather than cheating the system. Generally when I have an issue I tackle it from all angles to solve the problem as quick as possible. Sounds like that's what the op needs right now, a definite solution.

bsgospel · Apr 22, 2017

(not quite on topic but I found this awesome 90's grodan video. You know this woman went home and watched 90210 right after they were done filming.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLyYY72mGKM

For stacking as a draining method, don't use a totally dry cube. Get that thing damp to open up capillaries and columns, so that they might receive moisture from your plant-cube. I promise you it works in ten seconds.

sturgeongeneral · Apr 22, 2017

Only time I foliar feed is in veg.. I use my trim for edibles and bubble hash myself, that's why before going into flower I'll apply an ipm system and powerwash to clean any remaing residues.

Ganoderma · Apr 22, 2017

method187 said:
Just looking for some expertise.

3 days ago I transferred my clones into 6" rw cubes which previously I soaked in 5.5ph water.

I didn't feed them nutes right off the bat because the cubes were obviously soaking wet. The next day the cubes were still quite wet but I watered with half strength nutes just to get the plants some food.

The following day (yesterday) I did not feed them at all because the cubes were still very wet and heavy and the leaves are a little droopy (sign of overwatering). So I left them overnight and this morning I checked on them and the cubes are still very heavy and wet.

I have the 6" cubes sitting on corrugated plastic roofing panels that are pitched slightly to provide drainage. I am top feeding them by hand right now and the runoff goes down the panel into a gutter system and DTW.

View Image

I am worried the plants aren't getting enough nutes and why these cubes are not draining/evaporating water. I don't want to go several days between feedings, but I also do not want to overwater them either.

The plants are still the same size as when I put them in the cubes 3 days ago. They aren't showing any major signs of stress other than the leaves drooping a little like I said.

Any recommendations?

I am going to assume you transplanted your plants from starter cubes, into those 6 inch RW blocks.

It can take 5-7 days for your transplants to really react to the newly added root environment. Then they will start filling out the new medium with roots. During those first several days after transplanting they are not going to use up much water due to the size of the rockwool that you are using, so you may not even need to water them again for several days during those first days. Once those new roots start to grow you'll start to see your plants starting to grow new leaves again. Some of your plants can respond faster then the others, or slower then the others.

greddy · Apr 26, 2017

They arent growing up top because they are gowing roots down into the block

This is the time you want to wait to water for like 5 days

encourage that root growth

method187 · Apr 26, 2017

ldskjfadsljfk

method187 · Apr 26, 2017

So I let the cubes set and lose some water weight for a few days until they were very light. I fed them again with week 1 GH Flora nutes schedule dialled in with the proper PH, PPM and temp.

But now the plants are showing worsening signs of nitrogen and/or oxygen deficiency. The older/bigger leaves towards the bottom of the plant are yellowing and very brittle. The stems are red and the rest of the leaves are pretty dry and curling.

Over the last couple of days I have backed off the light intensity, room temps, and tried foliar feeding a few times to try to bring back some life into these small plants but it doesn't seem to be making a lick of difference.

I top fed them again last night and still no change at all. They seem to be getting worse, if anything.

I don't know what i'm doing wrong but this is getting to a critical stage. These plants are not healthy and won't make it much longer I fear.

It seems like the roots are not developing and taking in the nutes at all. The cubes are staying wet/heavy for a long time still.

I will post pics when the lights come on later today but any tips in the meantime?

Thanks in advance

James Howlett · Apr 26, 2017

What type of light are you using?

Temp/RH reading?

and nutrient recipe / strength?

method187 · Apr 26, 2017

method187 said:
ldskjfadsljfk

James Howlett said:
What type of light are you using?

Temp/RH reading?

and nutrient recipe / strength?

Using HPS. 72 6" cubes under 4 600W HPS.

72 degrees 60% RH with lights off. 80 degrees 40% RH with lights on.

Using General Hydro Flora Series DTW week 1 recipe since these plants are still so small.

http://gh.growgh.com/docs/Feedcharts/GH_FloraSeries-DTW_03216am.pdf

James Howlett · Apr 26, 2017

By week 1 you mean the seedling stage on the chart? If so that's way too low strength for plants under 600w, even small rooted clones.

I also veg under 600s. At transplant once they go under the 600s I start feeding @ 1.0 EC and bump it up every week until maxing out around 1.4 EC.

My veg food consists of 200ppm calmag, 550ppm micro, and 200ppm bloom. This is full strength and I dilute as necessary for whatever week the plants are on.

Your environment seems ok, although RH over 60% would be better during lights on. That's not making your plants look sad though. I'd bet it's the nutrients.

Ganoderma · Apr 26, 2017

perhaps then what you should try to do is to apply just enough moisture (water/or nutrient solution) to your starter cube/plug/what ever medium your transplant is in to keep that medium moist, but not enough that it drains into the RW block. That way it is like you are still treating it as that pre-transplanted plant, it will still need water and some nutrients. The RW may be moist, but it may not be providing enough transfer of moisture to what ever medium your transplant is in. With different mediums being transplanted into another medium of a different type you can have kind of ph issues during the time that you are waiting for your plants to take off and establish them selves in. It's kind of like taking a piece of sour candy or something really sweat and when you put it into your mouth you get a burst of flavor right away and it's intense at first. It's kind of like that for the roots, but the root then have to switch to a different ph in which the root(s) is now growing into. That "bump" is most likely where you are at. Also from looking at you pictures on page one, they might look like they maybe have a bit of a low ph starting to affect them.

Ogtg2213 · Apr 26, 2017

Yup, there hungry and now you have high ph in your cube causing leaf twist and now deficiency caused by lockout. Go back to my first post and follow that advise and your plants should recover in 4-6 days.
Give them a good soak in 5.5ph feed to get the ph in the cube back down.

method187 · Apr 26, 2017

Ogtg2213 said:
Yup, there hungry and now you have high ph in your cube causing leaf twist and now deficiency caused by lockout. Go back to my first post and follow that advise and your plants should recover in 4-6 days.
Give them a good soak in 5.5ph feed to get the ph in the cube back down.

In your original post you said (since I am hand watering) to feed every few hours. What amount (volume) do you suggest? I am typically feeding them about 1L of nutes per cube to achieve some runoff. So just keep feeding them this amount continuously until the plant health recovers?

When you say give them a good soak, do you mean a top feed soak? Or literally soak them in a bath of nutes?

James Howlett suggesting upping the nutrient schedule as well, which was my plan anyway since they seem quite deficient. Do you think I should move to week 2 strength on the GH DTW program? Week 3? Or a specific blend?

http://gh.growgh.com/docs/Feedcharts/GH_FloraSeries-DTW_03216am.pdf

Thanks everyone for the replies, much appreciated.

Ogtg2213 · Apr 26, 2017

600 ppm for feed strength
A good soak to correct the ph,fill a bucket of 5.5ph 600 ppm food soak the cube, let it drip dry, soak again
Go back to hand watering 3-4 times a day. at 5.6-5.8 ph,600ppm food. More is better if you have time but 3 times should be enough to keep the ph from climbing back up inside the cube. As far as volume just make sure they get fully saturated and can drain freely. Make sure water is 68f and oxygenated.

method187 · Apr 26, 2017

Ogtg2213 said:
600 ppm for feed strength
A good soak to correct the ph,fill a bucket of 5.5ph 600 ppm food soak the cube, let it drip dry, soak again
Go back to hand watering 3-4 times a day. at 5.6-5.8 ph,600ppm food. More is better if you have time but 3 times should be enough to keep the ph from climbing back up inside the cube. As far as volume just make sure they get fully saturated and can drain freely. Make sure water is 68f and oxygenated.

Awesome thanks.

Oxygenating with an air pump/air stone will do the trick or do you recommend something more effective?

frostqueen · Apr 26, 2017

Also. Hydroguard can go a long way towards protecting the roots during this stage. Just a thought. A nudge with a root enhancer can really make a big difference. I definitely agree with what somebody else said about getting the roots established in the big blocks before going into flower.

Ogtg2213 · Apr 26, 2017

Air stone in a bucket is plenty of air.
B-1 vitamin helps relive stress if you have any to add, if you don't already have b-1 I wouldn't worry about it.

method187 · Apr 26, 2017

Ogtg2213 said:
600 ppm for feed strength
A good soak to correct the ph,fill a bucket of 5.5ph 600 ppm food soak the cube, let it drip dry, soak again
Go back to hand watering 3-4 times a day. at 5.6-5.8 ph,600ppm food. More is better if you have time but 3 times should be enough to keep the ph from climbing back up inside the cube. As far as volume just make sure they get fully saturated and can drain freely. Make sure water is 68f and oxygenated.

These cubes don't really seem to drip dry so i'm a little confused by that. They hold a ton of water without dripping. I have to do this 72 times over and will have to dump and refill the bucket each time. I don't know if it's feasible to double soak all these cubes. Maybe a heavy top feeding of 5.5PH 600ppm nutes will be sufficient.

I just drew a syringe of liquid from one of the cubes, the PH was 6.3 so it doesn't seem like PH is a huge issue. Obviously want it down a bit around 5.6-6.0. They are looking a little better today than yesterday.

I'm also starting to get a bit of green algae appear on the top of the cubes. Recommendations to get rid of it?

6" RW no growth, cubes not draining

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