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People are vaping THC. Lung injuries being reported nationwide. Why is the CDC stayin

dddaver

Active member
Veteran
I personally think this is irresponsible journalism and inciting mass hysteria, with no real facts. The numbers are crazy. You'll get lipoid pneumonia if you vape marijuana oil? I would think out of the millions a people vaping this may have come up before. TOTALLY irresponsible.


<section id="module-position-SDZFqST9glU" class="storytopbar-bucket story-headline-module story-story-headline-module">People are vaping THC. Lung injuries being reported nationwide. Why is the CDC staying quiet?

</section><section id="module-position-SDZFqSSeHC0" class="storytopbar-bucket priority-asset-module story-priority-asset-module"></section><section id="module-position-SDZFqST7O_I" class="storytopbar-bucket story-byline-module story-story-byline-module">Jayne O'Donnell and Ken Alltucker, USA TODAY Published 6:30 a.m. ET Aug. 28, 2019 | Updated 9:32 a.m. ET Aug. 28, 2019
</section><section id="module-position-SDZFqSToZQ8" class="storytopbar-bucket piano-module story-piano-module"></section><section id="module-position-SDZFqSTL3No" class="storytopbar-bucket bounce-exchange-module story-bounce-exchange-module"></section><section id="module-position-SDZFqSSray4" class="storytopbar-bucket google-survey-module story-google-survey-module"></section>President Donald Trump says that Chinese officials called to restart talks amid an escalating trade war that recently sent markets spinning.



Federal health officials are under fire for their unclear public warnings following one death and nearly 200 cases of vaping-related lung illnesses, which some say are related to the far riskier practice of vaping marijuana oil rather than nicotine.
Some state health department and news reports suggest many of the cases of lung problems involve tetrahydrocannabinol, known as THC, the chemical in marijuana that causes psychological effects.
Boston University public health professor Michael Siegel said the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is being “unnecessarily vague” about describing the injuries as simply vaping-related when many people might have been injured by vaping THC oil.
Start the day smarter: Get USA TODAY's Daily Briefing in your inbox
5 vaping facts: It's worse with THC oil but it's safer than smoking cigarettes
“Based on what we know now, I think there’s enough to tell people: Don’t vape THC oils — especially products that are bought off the street,” said Siegel. "There are certain things the agency could be recommending right now that could potentially save lives and prevent this from happening by being much more specific.”
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In this Monday, July 29, 2019 photo, Dylan Nelson, of Burlington, Wis., and his sister, Andrea, sit for an interview. He was rushed to the hospital in June by his sister last month with severe breathing problems. Doctors believe he and about two dozen other young adults suffered serious lung injuries after vaping nicotine or THC, or both. (Photo: Rick Wood, AP)
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CDC, the Food and Drug Administration and state health agencies say they are completing the painstaking work of tracing common factors that may have triggered the spate of vaping-related lung illnesses mainly harming young adults.
Siegel acknowledged he is not privy to all the information the CDC has gathered so far. The agency likely does not know whether THC is the only culprit, he said, but the public would likely benefit if the agency warned vapers to avoid THC oil.
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Michael Siegel is a professor in the Department of Community Health Sciences at the Boston University School of Public Health. (Photo: Boston University)
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“There are millions of people vaping out there,” said Siegel, who supports vaping as a way for adults to quit smoking. “When they get this advice, ‘Well, we don’t know what it is. It’s vaping.’ That doesn’t help anyone. So I think they need to try to be specific."
Marijuana oil vaping was cited in at least 21 cases of severe lung illness reported by the San Francisco Chronicle last week. In Utah, officials said marijuana oil was a likely culprit in most cases of lung illnesses in teens. A Wisconsin man had so much trouble breathing after he vaped nicotine and THC oil that doctors put Dylan Nelson into a medically induced coma and hooked him up to a ventilator.
Most nicotine-laced liquids in e-cigarettes are alcohol-based and can't cause "lipoid pneumonia," the type cited in many of the lung cases, according to Siegel. The oil used when marijuana is vaped can, he said.
New York University public health professor Ray Niaura said the recent spate of lung illness means "it is unlikely it is e-cigarettes that have been on the market for a long time" unless "something was either changed or a new product was introduced into marketplaces." Niaura also supports vaping for smoking cessation by adults if the proper safeguards are in place for the products.
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Ray Niaura is a professor in the College of Global Public Health at New York University and interim chair of its Department of Epidemiology. (Photo: New York University.)
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"If it’s nicotine, it’s like a bad batch or a new player that is unknown," says Niaura, a former science director at the anti-tobacco Truth Initiative. "More likely, it’s what others are saying and people are vaping a lot of other things besides nicotine, such as synthetic cannabis or contaminated THC that is making an appearance and leading to these bad consequences."
Dixie Harris, a pulmonologist at InterMountain Healthcare in Salt Lake City, says a "large portion" of the hospital system's 13 vaping-related injuries involved THC.
Harris said she advises people to avoid vaping THC products — or any vaping product that contains oil — because research suggests that can be a risk factor for lipoid pneumonia.
"If somebody is going to insist on vaping, use the products that are from a reputable place and don’t add extra material to your vaping," Harris said.
The vaping industry blamed tainted THC sold by unlicensed retailers. The American Vaping Association wants federal officials to clarify where the problems lie.
One of the challenges for investigators is that teens and even some adults "are going to be reluctant to disclose the use of THC to their parents or doctors," said Gregory Conley, president of the vaping association. He said his group was contacted by a patient with one of the less serious respiratory illnesses who said that he was only vaping THC, but he worried going public would jeopardize his college scholarship.
"The truth is that in every case so far in which a specific e-liquid has been identified, that product has been a THC-containing e-liquid, typically purchased off the street and often in open cartridges such that they could contain a contaminant or other drug," said Siegel.
Siegel noted that in at least some of the cases, the use of a THC oil, such as butane hash oil, was blamed. In January, someone vaping butane hash oil developed severe acute respiratory illness that was attributed to the hash oil.
CDC and Food and Drug Administration officials defended themselves Friday, telling reporters the investigations are time intensive and are being conducted in cooperation with states.
Dr. Brian King of the CDC's Office on Smoking and Health told reporters that harmful ingredients in traditional nicotine vape liquid had been identified that included ultrafine particulates, heavy metals such as lead, cancer causing chemicals, and flavoring used in e-cigarettes to give it a buttery flavor.
Those ingredients had been related to severe respiratory illness, he said. While they haven't been linked to the current cases, "we know that e-cigarette aerosol is not harmless," said King.
While the government knows people use substances including THC in vape pens, Kind said, "the bottom line is there’s a variety of things in e-cigarette aerosol that could have implications for lung health."
Public health investigators need to gather more information about each case, including details such as what substances and products triggered the lung illnesses, said Mitch Zeller, director of the Food and Drug Administration's Center for Tobacco Products.
He noted, "many of these cases have involved the presence of compounds like THC, and we need to get to the bottom of every single case."
In a statement, Juul said it was monitoring the reports. The e-cigarette maker added that "reporting also suggests many patients were vaping both nicotine and THC," and underscores the importance of keeping tobacco and nicotine products away from youth.
"We also must ensure illegal products, such as counterfeit, copycat, and those that deliver controlled substances, stay out of the market," said the statement.
Monday, the California branch of the National Organization to Reform Marijuana Laws warned consumers not to buy THC vape products from unlicensed retailers.
Kim Barnes, Dylan Nelson's mother, urged other families to come forward if their loved ones have suffered similar injuries to prevent more people from getting sick.
"I don't want somebody else's son to end up like this," Dylan Nelson's mother, Kim Barnes, told the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel. “That's why when they told me I just thought, ‘Well, why isn't anybody saying anything about this?’"


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...-silent-vaping-thc-injuries-mount/2121523001/
 

I'mback

Comfortably numb!
I've seen a video where the dude was using coconut oil as a carrier, vice PG or VG. Duh! Major facepalm!
 
M

moose eater

While coating one's lungs with oil vapors can have some obvious ill effects over time if done persistently, I've been skeptical of some of the reports.

It's likely the CDC is abstaining from conclusive statements until after they've vetted reports or studies.

If you look at the CDC's dragging of their feet during the earlier days of the HIV/AIDS outbreak in the early 80s ("The Band Played On"), this behavior is not unusual for them. They let that era slide by for years before they came out with anything remotely resembling any intervention statements.
 

dddaver

Active member
Veteran
I'm a bit confused. Is the problem just vaping oil? Or flowers too?

My impression was that if you were vaping flowers you were in effect vaping the flower contents, including oils.
 

trichrider

Kiss My Ring
Veteran
improperly purged ISO or ETOH will hurt your lungs. it's why i don't dab anymore.

no need to deliberately increase the danger of COPD.
 

dddaver

Active member
Veteran
improperly purged ISO or ETOH will hurt your lungs. it's why i don't dab anymore.

no need to deliberately increase the danger of COPD.


Thanks. Kinda thought that was the case.

Still think they're being alarmist and should've mentioned the distinction or something along those lines anyway. Average Joe will have no idea what they're talking about. And, of course, jump to conclusions.
 
M

moose eater

I'm a bit confused. Is the problem just vaping oil? Or flowers too?

My impression was that if you were vaping flowers you were in effect vaping the flower contents, including oils.

It's my experience/opinion from experience, that concentration matters some.

Granted, vaping is a bit different than firing the bottoms of the old glass oil pipes we used years ago, that closely resemble modern meth pipes today (though the older oil pipes tended to be longer, narrower, and had a wider opening in the glass bulb/bowl that was heated), but I've smoked ether-refined (poorly made, due to excess chlorophyll) hash oil back then to the extent that it turned what likely would've been mere flu, into a serious hosptital visit with numerous complications; self-induced and stupid at the time, but it was Christmas vacation and everyone else was mostly gone, so hovering over a propane stove with an oil pipe seemed like the thing to do (circa 1980-81 December).

Likewise, I've made some iso-oil that was killer, and (mostly) followed a process that I gleaned from this site over 10 years ago, and I can attest to frequent use in an older style oil pipe leaving my lungs feeling like someone had taken an airless paint sprayer of latex enamel to them.

Never got that effect from smoking flowers; not even joint after joint of the old Mexican brick weed, 47 years ago.
 

aridbud

automeister
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Glycerin is a sticky substance found in many vaping products. Think of your lungs like an airy sponge. Glycerin plugs up air sacs and ethanol, depending on purity/strength, will dissolve delicate lung tissue with chronic use.
 

watts

ohms
Veteran
^ Yeah but nicotine vape users use lots of glycerin for years now. This is something more recent that is causing the problems.
 

shaggyballs

Active member
Veteran
Non-cannabis terpenes perhaps?
Mineral oil is a real issue too.
watts is on it, nobody has responded to his answer.
 

CaptainDankness

Well-known member
^ Yeah but nicotine vape users use lots of glycerin for years now. This is something more recent that is causing the problems.
Could really just be some chemical residue in those cheap Chinese vape cartridges. They have been giving our children toys coated with lead paint time and time again. I honestly don't trust anything coming from China.



But you really don't know what's in them black market cartridges, people have put fentynal in bud. I imagine some are cut with research chemicals most likely the THC anologs. Really I have heard of people getting chemical burns in the throat and mouth from smoking that K2 shit. The possibilities are endless, the black market can be dirty as fuck.
 

I'mback

Comfortably numb!
Could really just be some chemical residue in those cheap Chinese vape cartridges. They have been giving our children toys coated with lead paint time and time again. I honestly don't trust anything coming from China.



But you really don't know what's in them black market cartridges, people have put fentynal in bud. I imagine some are cut with research chemicals most likely the THC anologs. Really I have heard of people getting chemical burns in the throat and mouth from smoking that K2 shit. The possibilities are endless, the black market can be dirty as fuck.
... try again! Vape cartridges have been coming from China (the only producer) since '06. Like watts says. How come we haven't heard about it before. Wrt glycerine, PG is used in hospital filtration systems as an anti-fungal.

A lot of controversy surrounding this subject on here (vaping). A lot of brilliant minds on here until it comes to this subject. Unless you have experience in the field, please don't contribute to the BS that resides out there!
 

CaptainDankness

Well-known member
... try again! Vape cartridges have been coming from China (the only producer) since '06. Like watts says. How come we haven't heard about it before. Wrt glycerine, PG is used in hospital filtration systems as an anti-fungal.

A lot of controversy surrounding this subject on here (vaping). A lot of brilliant minds on here until it comes to this subject. Unless you have experience in the field, please don't contribute to the BS that resides out there!
Really nobody is going to know shit about it until we get a lab testing on the cartidges in question. So basically unless you personally are lab testing you can't ponder the cause here according to you. Lol, great theory, but this is a forum.



Although for all we know these people could have smoked some bad meth too. Could just be yet another fear tactic to try keeping weed illegal, or at least in the hands of a few licensed producers.
 

aridbud

automeister
ICMag Donor
Veteran
A vaping device heats a volatile liquid in a cartridge, which the user inhales from the device, and simply turns a liquid to vapor. The main ingredients in e-liquid –glycerin, for the clouds of vapor; propylene glycol, for the flavoring to bind to; flavoring, for flavor and nicotine, which is obtained as a pure, pharmaceutical-grade concentrate.

Chemicals found in e-cigarette liquid may be a potential cause of popcorn lung. According to the American Lung Association, using electronic cigarettes or vaping, particularly the flavored varieties, can cause popcorn lung.

E-cigarette vapor has been proven to contain diacetyl. Popcorn lung is a rare condition that causes airway scarring due to inflammation and eventually lung damage due to diacetyl, over time, with chronic use, inflammation associated with popcorn lung causes lung tissues and airways to scar and narrow, causing breathing difficulties. Popcorn lung is also known as bronchiolitis obliterans, or constrictive bronchiolitis, causing inability to breathe.

What starts out as wheezing, asthma symptoms, nose and mouth irritation dry cough can be a symptom of vaping.

I think the CDC is looking for an answer, albeit, they are grasping for information to lead them to a definitive diagnosis.

With products coming out of China or possibly tainted THC/ terpenes, it's the healthcare (scare) mystery of Summer 2019.
 

prune

Active member
Veteran
There's a thread in the concentrates section of this very forum that may speak to the very genesis of this whole situation. In the "True Terpenes.." thread someone busts a company selling an advertised all terpene dilution material (THC oil needs to be diluted to work in most vape pens), that actually seemed to be made of MINERAL OIL.

There is a fairly good chance that either this company (or an industry tilt towards these formulations) was the direct cause of this recent rash of problems. (someone copy the relevant authorities, please...)
 

Mr. J

Well-known member
Vaping oil is bad. Mmmkay? I didn't realize that was actually a thing until just now. The ecig guys knew about that like 10 years ago.
 

RaZoR!

Active member
Here is my take as an e-cig nicotine user. Its not the VG (vegetable glycerin) or the PG(Propylene glycol). Both have been used for decades in multiple industries and as long as they are not super heated, they have very few side effects. Before the usage of PG, the industry played with a chemical called PEG, which is polyethylene glycol.

PEG is toxic and the ecig industry figured that out and phased it out, however in recent years, the "wax liquidizer" industry has popped up and PEG is commonly used. This could be a culprit.

Another culprit is mineral oil. You ever notice how carts all kind of put out a similar smell regardless of the flavor? They all have this very subtle fake lemon terpene smell, it could easily be mistaken if you don't know how things are suppose to taste. I think low quality distillate is bought in bulk and then is made at home with wax liquidizer, mineral oil, generic terpenes, loaded into ccells and pre-printed packaging.

I remember when dabbing really hit its peak several years ago and I automatically knew this was going to be an issue. I am not saying clean concentrates are not possible, they obviously are, but none of this would be an issue if you just smoke flower. If you get an itch for concentrates, just smoke kief and bubble hash or rosin if you really want to take a dab. Stop buying these carts, all they do is fuel the demand even more.
 

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