basics of breeding

John LOQUE · Sep 13, 2020

High!
Is there info/doc now about which traits are rececive or dominant, or which traits come from the male or from the female?
Thanks

Benny106 · Sep 14, 2020

As far as i remember reading on here, there are no known sex linked traits. My understanding of dominant/recessive traits, is that they are specific to the cultivar(s), and can only be observed as frequencies in a population. So in a room of a number of plants, if the majority show a trait it is probably dominant. In an f1 hybrid generation the majority will express dominant traits from each parent and the f2 generation will exibit reccesive traits due to segregation.

There was a great book called the cannabis breeders bible, it helps a lot but mainly i found the info easier to understand in a practical sense, by making a bunch of crosses with the same male and growing out as many as i could of each cross. Some were better than others but i saw how each line had traits from each parent, the way the male expressed as females and the intermediates. Some moms were mostly recessive for thier traits, some were very dominant but if you grow enough of anything you can find what ever is there.

John LOQUE · Sep 14, 2020

I've made only 2 crosses in my grower's life. I had read 20 years ago that potency was coming from the males, so i took the first male i had from my regular seeds, and chucked it on a skunk female. The offspring was terrific, many phenos but all with the potency of the father's strain (it was ak47). That was 20 years ago... And more recently i did it again with the same rule and other male and female, and the first batch was very disapointing, I had lost the potency, so i did not look further...
Now i've got a genetic i love in regular seeds, and i would like to do it clever

HAZENACIOUS · Sep 14, 2020

Hi John,
Every strain is different, what may be true for one strain may be untrue for the next. You need to get a feel for the lines you are working with, this usually takes years.
BeAn is right, it helps that the male comes from a line that is potent, but you need to make sure the male carries that trait, and that it crosses well with your selected female. You do this by progeny testing your males.

Nevil used to take 1 good clone female, and cross it with several males a different male for each branch using paperbags and rubberbands and grow out a selection of seeds from each different male, and this is how he found the perfect male.
He used to say: It only takes 1 bad male selection to undo years of hard work...
Or something like that.

Benny106 · Sep 14, 2020

Or mid way through the seedcrop you notice a female has dropped a bollock and then see its pollen has flown about, instant shit can of the whole room because you can never be sure how much was fathered from the herm.

JetLife175 · Sep 14, 2020

Depends on the plant so there is no definitive guide to this.

Red October · Sep 14, 2020

I always liked the DJ short breeding articles, set me on a good path until I thought I knew better. Very hard to recover from a bad choice made and not having the backups to fall back on.

Nexus7 · Sep 14, 2020

John LOQUE said:
High!
Is there info/doc now about which traits are rececive or dominant, or which traits come from the male or from the female?
Thanks

There was a book, written by RCC I think, with a section that listed a few traits and which were dominant or recessive over each other

I imagine most breeders would keep the information they learned about inheritance of genetic traits to themselves.

Afaik no scientific evidence of sex linked traits having much impact on Cannabis breeding. Mostly "bro" science imo. It's just easier to cross a long flowering male to a short flowering female than the other way around.

djonkoman · Sep 14, 2020

that info about recessive and domimant is good to know, since those mendelian genetics are the basis from which you can learn more about genetics.
but you should not expect to find such a simple pattern of inheritance for every trait.
there certainly are traits where it does apply, duckfoot leaves for example.
but many traits that we are interested in are also quantitative traits, traits that are not either on or off, 1 or 0, but have a more gradual variation, think of something like how tall you are. such traits usually involve multiple genes, which is also why you don't really see that mendelian pattern, with such traits you'd see something more intuitive(like short+tall=in the middle, on average). the underlying genes still behave like the simple basics, but since the trait is not caused by just 1 gene what you will see in the progeny will be a blend of the effects of all those genes involved.

regarding male/female, there may be some sex-linked genes, but I always assume it's not a factor.
the primary way that could happen is due to chloroplast or mitochondrial dna, which is inherited from the mother only. but it's most likely that genes you're interested in will be in the nuclear dna, which just behaves with 50/50 inheritance.

another way of sex linked genes if it's located on the x-chromosome, you see that with some heredetary deseases for example, where a woman has a bacup so for her it's recessive, but 50% of her sons will get the defective X and will have no 2nd one as backup.
I don't really expect that that plays a big role when breeding weed though.
so I'd just ignore the sex and just assume 50/50 inheritance.

troutman · Sep 14, 2020

There isn't too many Cannabis breeding books. Just look at other plant breeding info and that should help. :tiphat:

Benny106 · Sep 14, 2020

This book

John LOQUE · Sep 15, 2020

BeAn v.2.0 said:
This book

Great, ebook, free pdf, fantastic... Thanks for the link

Benny106 · Sep 15, 2020

Go forth and breed.

CannaRed · Sep 15, 2020

What ever happened to the cannabis breeding book that James Loud was supposed to put out?
It was supposed to be released a year ago

midwestkid · Sep 15, 2020

I had an outdoor crop about 5 yrs ago. It was on a friends property. He hacked the males and left them laying near the girls. Later that fall I returned to find a couple fully seeded females. The males had pollinated as they lay there.
All 3 females that were knocked up had unique terps. One buttery muffin. One mango, and the other a vinyl smell like a new kiddie pool or air matress.
So I ended up with loads of seeds from this location but no smokable bud. Over the last few years I've grown these crosses and in looking at the same lines over and over I feel like I'm learning from just getting to know these varieties. Now that I'm familiar with the different expressions that come from these lines, I feel like by adding some pollen from a different line I will really be able to observe the changes he brings.
These aren't genetics that are game changing or anything, but they are hardy and consistent and work in my area. I guess I'm saying that working one or two lines for a few years has been good learning. And those heavily seeded females were a blessing.
I think seeds are exciting.

John LOQUE · Sep 15, 2020

BeAn v.2.0 said:
Go forth and breed.

It's tough!!!
I've never learnt genetic at school, so i'm not used to the words, but i remember maths problems i had to solve that were about alleles, and genes.

There is a word i don't find a convenient translation in french is "true breeding". Google says "pure specie" that does not fit, i think.

JetLife175 · Sep 17, 2020

I don’t really like giving away certain bits of info when it comes to what I’m doing or looking for or how a plant performs. Even if it’s a line or clone that everyone has, they may not have the same eye or goal in mind. And I feel like most people who are breeding plants are doing the same. Some things just have to come with experience and sharpening your eye in the garden.

I like to get familiar with my stock first before I make any assumptions. Cross that specific plant to something you are comfortable and experienced with. You’ll be able to tell what is happening in the f1 for lack of a better term (not sure what you are using stock wise) And definitely by the f2. I like playing with things. Like taking the f2 back to the mother or father, or f1xf2, f2xf1.... you get the idea. You will get an overall idea of what the genepool is recessive and dominant for as well as select specific plants out during that time to achieve either or.

@hempy · Sep 17, 2020

Most wont give away there methods or info when it comes to breeding you see it in horse breeding all forms of breeding including cannabis.

The key starting point is starting with the best possible genetics.

JetLife175 · Sep 17, 2020

And to elaborate on my previous post.

The one golden nugget I can give you guys is you need to really utilize selfing a plant. I’ll say no more. And for all you guys scared of fems.... all I have to say is you are living in the Stone Age with an opinion formed around information and techniques just as old. Rant over.

John LOQUE · Sep 18, 2020

JetLife175 said:
And to elaborate on my previous post.

The one golden nugget I can give you guys is you need to really utilize selfing a plant. I’ll say no more. And for all you guys scared of fems.... all I have to say is you are living in the Stone Age with an opinion formed around information and techniques just as old. Rant over.

Thanks man! Sure i'm gonna reverse my females...Try to reverse, i mean

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