Three weeks into flower plant needs help

Froglegz · Jan 12, 2016

As the title says, I'm about 25 days into my first flowering and my plant is looking quite sad. Lots of brown leaves all over. I'll attach pictures at the end but here is some additional info:

Strain: train wreck
Lights: Mars-hydro old style 300w equivalent
Distance from canopy: 18"
Grow box dimensions: 2x1.5x5
Intake air flow: 4, 1.5 inch holes in the bottom of the box
Output air flow: 120mm running fan attached to a carbon filter moving around 70-80 cfm of air
Light on temp: 82
Light off temp: 65
Humidity: ~45%
Substrate: coco/perlite 75/25
Size of container: 3 gal
Feed schedule: every three days (pot is light when I feed)
Water type: filtered tap @ 55ppm
Feed type: GH nutes following H3ad 's formula of 1 ml of micro to 1.5ml bloom. Also add around 2.5 ml of calmag each watering to raise ppms to 250 before adding any other nutes.
Additional additives each watering: 2 ml hydroguard and around 1-3.5ml of silica blast to bring up the Ph to where it needs to be.
Ph: ~6 using testing drops. Probably should buy a digital Ph meter if I stick with coco since the drops arent all that precise.
Last feed: 2.5 ml calmag, 3.5 ml blast, 2 ml hydroguard, 6 ml micro, 9 ml bloom = 955ppm to the top and around 850 ppm out the bottom.

Brown tips and edges started about a week into flowering. Before that I had some yellowing around which looked like a Mg deficiency. Now that I'm 3.5 weeks in the browning has spread all over and the buds are pretty small.

Any help is appreciated.

Thank you!

Irotas · Jan 12, 2016

I think this is nutrient overdose, every three days feeding seems like a lot. I recommend flushing with water that is the correct ph, not feeding it anything else until it clears up some.

Did you rinse the coco before using it?

chronosync · Jan 12, 2016

Its coco its best to always feed.
If you are following heads formula you probably arent over feeding. Ppms are lower out so your plant is using what you are giving.
My guess would be the plant is hungry for P, K. Try a pk booster and add it to what you are currently doing. Start @ 1/2 strength and ramp it up.

These are my guesses, just throwing it out.

GonjaLove · Jan 12, 2016

You're starving your plants bro. The fact that you're feeding 950 ppm and only getting 850 ppm runoff should tell you something. Coco needs fed way more than every 3 days especially in flower. My question is...I use heads formula with ro water and mine comes out around 1.2 with just the base nutes...you sure you're measuring right?

chronosync · Jan 12, 2016

def hungry

def hungry

hes adjusting his water to 250ppm before he adds H3ads so that makes sense. this is why i think you should add a PK booster.

(((Quote:
Originally Posted by chronosync View Post
About KoolBloom, is it really just phophorous and potassium? All it says on the bottle is: derived from phosphates and sulfates.)))

Yes the main elements are P & K, very essential to the buds development and size. Keeping the leaf structure sound and green, allows for maximum yield...if she needs P & K she will try to "steal" it from her leaves/roots, and end up deficient. Boosting other base nutes to provide may supplement other elements and salt build up that she doesn't want...forcing a flush.

Bwanabud said:
I boost the PK values,,,starting at an extra 2ml per gallon at 3 weeks bloom,,,and continue to increase to 5ml per gallon at the end...based on age, I run my PPM's at 800-1400...but that would be critical depending on strain/acclamation/soil PH/PPM readings....you have to find your own sweet spot based on heath/responsive of elements.

Froglegz · Jan 12, 2016

GonjaLove said:
You're starving your plants bro. The fact that you're feeding 950 ppm and only getting 850 ppm runoff should tell you something. Coco needs fed way more than every 3 days especially in flower. My question is...I use heads formula with ro water and mine comes out around 1.2 with just the base nutes...you sure you're measuring right?

I hope I've been measuring correctly. I just picked up some nice glass graduated cylinders to replace the crappy plastic set I had so hopefully that will take care of any measurement issues.

As for feeding every three days, I've read a lot that you should feed when the pot feels light. Is that not the case or just not during flowing? How often should I be feeding instead? And at what ppm/ec?

I forgot to mention I run to at least 20% runoff so I was hoping salt buildup wasn't an issue. Another thing I've read is to look at the ppms of the outflow and if its the same or less than what you put in you should be ok. Not sure if that hold true or not.

chronosync · Jan 12, 2016

Lots of runoff is good and you shouldnt have to worry about salts, ive been flushing my pots with 1/2 strength base nutes every few weeks if i think the plant needs a break or if i change something so the medium is fresh.

As soon as roots have filled the pots you can water/feed as much as you want. Some people feed coco every day 3+ times/day. I dont because its wasteful and alot more work for me for no real benefit. I only wait three days to water if i absolutely have to.

Froglegz · Jan 12, 2016

chronosync said:
hes adjusting his water to 250ppm before he adds H3ads so that makes sense. this is why i think you should add a PK booster.

(((Quote:
Originally Posted by chronosync View Post
About KoolBloom, is it really just phophorous and potassium? All it says on the bottle is: derived from phosphates and sulfates.)))

Yes the main elements are P & K, very essential to the buds development and size. Keeping the leaf structure sound and green, allows for maximum yield...if she needs P & K she will try to "steal" it from her leaves/roots, and end up deficient. Boosting other base nutes to provide may supplement other elements and salt build up that she doesn't want...forcing a flush.

I just looked up koolbloom and it looks like its basically double strength florabloom. Can I just up the florabloom concentration?

chronosync · Jan 12, 2016

Not sure really, wouldnt that be messing with the basic formula ratio? The only difference i see is you would be doubling magnesium and sulfur.

My idea so far is to use a base nutrient that keeps the plant good no matter what and to add things on top for whatever benefit you are trying to get. Like how you are adding silica.

Why dont you start another thread in the Coco section asking about PK boost using H3ads.

Core · Jan 12, 2016

i'll go with irotas on this one
just don't flush or there will be more damage

GonjaLove · Jan 13, 2016

Yea you should.go by what the pots weigh it's a good calculating tool but honestly with coco once you have roots established, be it from seed, clone, or after transplant...you can feed multiple times per day. Letting the coco get too dry is a big no no and will cause salt buildup and lockout eventually. I've done runs with 20% runoff and I've done runs with no runoff. Your goal is to keep the coco moist. If you never let it get dry the likely hood of salt buildup diminishes. Flushing coco with plain water is something you never wanna do as it messes with the cations in the coco. What ec you should be feeding is hard to say exactly as every strain is different. Also I'm sorry about what I said earlier I was blazed up and didn't read what you wrote correctly lol. What I would do...and this is just my opinion...at 25 days your plants are near when they should be fed the most. By 4th week I'm usually at around 10ml micro 12ml bloom. I would drop the blast and just up my base nutes. I don't like to use bloom boosters much base nutes are pretty much the same exact thing. In the end it's all n-p-k. Chrono is 100% right you need some p-k. Do your 2.5ml calmag, and start bumping your base nutes. You aren't gonna fix the damage but things will turn around

iTarzan · Jan 13, 2016

Pardon the interruption.

chronosync · Jan 13, 2016

Gonja, great info. I wish someone would have explained all that for me when i started. Nice.

Froglegz · Jan 13, 2016

Thank you both very much for the help. I'm going to water tonight and bump up the nutes.

The only reason I've been using the blast is to bring the ph up to where it needs to be. I'm down in the 5 Ph range other wise. Is using blast not desirable or do you think it could cause problems?

One other thing, I had another friend take a look and he was wondering if my box was getting enough CO2. The space has pretty good air flow and temp control but it's not in a place with a lot of people or sources of CO2. I was looking into throwing together a little DIY CO2 bubbler to see if that helps too. Not sure if you've ever run in to CO2 issues before.

Again, tremendous thanks for all that have responded.

GonjaLove · Jan 13, 2016

Thanks chrono. We all start somewhere lol. Trust me I've gone down the same road too. Can't tell you how many plants I've burnt up. As frog as for the co2...if you have good airflow you should be fine. Co2 is a whole.other beast. To run it properly and to gain anything from it you need to be able to control it i.e. be anle to maintain 1200 or so ppm's. It also requires slightly higher Temps for proper intake...around 80 degrees or maybe even slightly higher. I have 4k running currently without co2 and just good ol airflow and everything is kosher. My bet is gonna be on your base nutes. I actually have a post in coco threads called "bloom boosters and 6/9. Go to page 2 I believe it's the second or third post from the top. Can't remember the dudes name but he pretty much spells out the ratios he uses with 6/9 and I've had amazing results with it. Glad I could help. I was in your shoes not long ago

chronosync · Jan 13, 2016

Froglegz said:
I hope I've been measuring correctly. I just picked up some nice glass graduated cylinders to replace the crappy plastic set I had so hopefully that will take care of any measurement issues.

Nice items to have. I use a graduated plastic 10ml syringe.

Forget about adding co2 right now. Plenty in the air for a normal kick ass regular grow. Keep those wheels turning tho.

Froglegz · Jan 13, 2016

Hey Gonja, i couldn't find the thread you mentioned. Could you hook me up with a link? Thanks!

GonjaLove · Jan 13, 2016

1st few weeks of flower 1-3 i use 7:10
4th week or so i'll go 10:12
6th week 6:15
7th week 4:15
8th week 2:10
9th week 2:5
::flush::

chronosync · Jan 13, 2016

Gonja, can you explain why you do it this way? Im running GH CocoTek. Its a two part nute with grow and bloom both a+b. So its technically a four part set if you want to see it that way. Im trying not to mess with it but i have a hard time not experimenting with things. For now im running it straight, but there is alot of potential for variation.

Just curious about your approach here.

GonjaLove · Jan 13, 2016

Well...In a nutshell...the further along you go in flower the less n you need but the more p-k you need. So instead of using bloom boosters to achieve the proper ppm's of each element I just tweak my base nutes. Like I said that's simply put. I'm at work right now but will go into more detail for you tonight

Three weeks into flower plant needs help

New member

Member

Well-stoned member

Member

Well-stoned member

New member

Well-stoned member

New member

Well-stoned member

Quality Control Controller

Member

Well-known member

Well-stoned member

New member

Member

Well-stoned member

New member

Member

Well-stoned member

Member