Vacuum purging BHO.

Hey folks i have a 25g piece of BHO that i have been purging for far too long (15+ hours) in a vacuum chamber set in a bay marie....originally i kept the base of the chamber at 110f then up to 120f but the BHO does not get to a very liquid state and bubbles do not seem to collapse for a long time (unless pressure is released from chamber).
The problems is that the oil is still full of butane and sparks like crazy....i have tried to keep the temps low to keep the flavour but its not allowing the oil to soften and release the butane and i am wondering exactly how liquid the oil should be when purging and am i right in not letting it get above 120f....how hot can i let the oil get before i damage it?
Also a piece around the edge has turned to wax, why? and what can i do with it?
Thanks in advance.
Peace

I would go hotter, take it up in 5 degree increments until the bubbles start popping. If the base of the desiccator is 120 then the oil is likely a bit cooler than that.

You shouldn't have to bring the temps hotter than 150 but everyone's setup is a little different.

Depending on how formed the wax part is it should melt and bubbles back down to sap/shatter. Sounds like you are gunna get a nice shatter consistency if bubbles aren't popping at all at 120.

I don't think that its perfectly clear if shorter and hotter is better than longer and slightly cooler as far as losing things other than the butane goes. At 120 you should be molten enough, but 120 at the base may not be 120 at the oil. You can sure go 140 and not damage it, it will purge quicker, and sure you will lose some volatiles other than butane but you can't totally avoid that anyway. I do it at about 130 or 140 as the oil is much less viscous at that temperature. I probably lose some taste but it tastes fine to me.

Thanks guys, i was close to giving up (3 days of this is enough to try the patience of a saint) but i will take it a little hotter to get it more viscous (that the word i was searching for lol).
I shall keep you updated.....here is a pic of the oil.

Peace

truecannabliss said:

originally i kept the base of the chamber at 110f then up to 120f but the BHO does not get to a very liquid state and bubbles do not seem to collapse for a long time
Peace

Click to expand...

From my observations The key seems to be lowering the overall viscosity of the BHO enough to let the BHO escape. The problem you are seeing is the uneven distribution of heat. No matter how much you heat the bottom that blob of BHO isn't going to distribute the heat evenly resulting bubbles that are hard on top and are don't pop without releasing pressure as you have observed. Plus, all the air space in the chamber is a piss poor conductor of heat and you've basically created a shit ton of micro climates. In my opinion this is what causes the "waxing" you'll notice it starts in thicker areas where butane and possibly moisture is more likely to be trapped.

The expensive solution seems to be a vacuum oven. Drop a few grand and you can have absolute control from every angle at +/- a degree or two. No more microclimates and no more guesswork. There are a number of cheap solutions. Smaller batches can be purged while still a bit "runny" and spread thinly. For a larger batch you need something to reheat it. We've been using a toaster oven and careful supervision follow by an immediate vac purge. I like toaster ovens because there are heating elements (and thermostats possibly) above and below the pan to regulate heat more precisely.

As far as what to do with wax, I've found that you can easily reheat it and re vacuum it into shatter that looks like everything else. When you apply heat you'll notice it start to get that weird "muffin" look. Next it will begin to bubble as it clarifies. When it's runny enough for a purge, throw it in the vacuum chamber as quick as you can and vacuum. When the bubbles stop popping I open the chamber and decide whether to heat and repurge or call it quits. I've successfully cooked 3 grams of two week old butter back into shatter this way in about a half hour.

So far my preferred end result seems to be mostly clear "shatter" consistency. If the surface is sticky it needs to be purged again. Final product should have minimal bubbles and a nice sheen to the surface. If you have any problems with your stash gradually "waxing" or "honeycombing" over time it's residual moisture and butane IMO. When you do it right it should look exactly the same for weeks no matter where you store it.

Good luck man, you need any advice feel free to PM me

25grams is a good sized chunk to purge in one shot, unless you have a large vacuum chamber so it can spread out. If you don't, you might consider spliting it up and purging it in more than one lot.

We like thin film purging under vacuum and use 115F at -29.9" Hg for our oil. We use a laser pyrometer to keep track.

We picked that temperature by pulling a vacuum and slowly raising the temperature, until the bubbles break free. If your's aren't breaking free at 120F, you have some really thick oil, or perhaps the puddle isn't at the same temperature as what you're measuring.

I would start out by measuring the temperature of the puddle carefully with a laser thermometer, if you haven't already, and using it and the bubbles as your guide.

You can also just start slowly raising the temperature until the bubbles break free, by assuming that regardless of what the temperature might be, it isn't enough. That should work as well, but does expose you to some unknowns.

The more heat you use, the more decarboxylation will also occur and conversion of THC to CBN. If you wish to retain it in carboxylic acid form, you need to minimize heat input.

If you are making an oral med and need it decarboxylated anyway, I would cut to the chase and just drop a container with the oil in it, in a 250F hot oil bath to both purge and decarboxylate, and forget about the vacuum.

Sadly i think i have fucked up most of this batch! or at least caused a serious drop off in quality.
When i went back to it today lots more had turned to wax (where i heated it up too much i presume).
I am now beginning to think the vacuum chamber is not airtight and that is why the oil is not purging properly, either that or its too big a batch for the size chamber i have.
To say im gutted is an understatement, 3 days of work and a shit load of potentially superb BHO ruined (hopefully not all of it).
I have separated the piece that hadn't turned to wax and hopefully can salvage it when i see my buddy (who is better at this than me).
I have tried to turn the wax bit back to oil but it doesn't seem to want to.....i am gonna fuck around with some bits to see what happens.
Overall i have learnt some important lessons:
1)Make sure equipment is in full working order
2)Dont make batches too big

Seems just when i begin to love BHO i have an issue that puts me off, glad i didn't waste my Cookie trim.

Thanks for all the advice.
Peace

Having the same troubles as you. Oil temps around 130 and no sign of butane escape slowing down. At this point I would rather get the butane out and sacrifice smell and taste.

Purged some butane as long as 12 hrs and wasn't planning on this taking so long. Gray Wolf mentioned 115 oil temp but I haven't seen a mention of duration or how this temp is kept consistent.

Damn bro at least im not alone.....i been thinking the same thing and just want it clean (even if it means a loss in flavour). Fingers crossed i have some better luck today, i will keep you updated.
Peace

Lebniis said:

Having the same troubles as you. Oil temps around 130 and no sign of butane escape slowing down. At this point I would rather get the butane out and sacrifice smell and taste.

Purged some butane as long as 12 hrs and wasn't planning on this taking so long. Gray Wolf mentioned 115 oil temp but I haven't seen a mention of duration or how this temp is kept consistent.

Click to expand...

Are you sure the bubbles are butane? At 130F the oil will continue to bubble from decarboxylation.

I always put a flame to my oil to test and go by the rule that if it sparks its got butane in it, am i right in thinking that?
Peace

truecannabliss said:

I always put a flame to my oil to test and go by the rule that if it sparks its got butane in it, am i right in thinking that?
Peace

Click to expand...

The terpenes are also hydrocarbons and will burn and water will cause sparking. I go by the size and shape of the bubbles and by taste and smell.

The butane bubbles are randomly sized and some are large, while the CO2 bubbles are equally sized and fizzy.

Have you managed to get all the BHO out now ?

Hendrix420 said:

Have you managed to get all the BHO out now ?

Click to expand...

? Could you elaborate?

Wouldn't it be easier to add methanol, purge the butane and distill the methanol? Methanol is way easier to purge in my experience. I'm a hexane and ethanol guy though and distilling flammables is no issue for me.

Methanol toxicity is overstated. It's ld50 is half ethanol which means its only twice as bad. It's not even toxic, it's the metabolites formic acid and formaldehyde that are.

Don't know about easier, but it certainly would work. Yes methanol is demonized out of perspective because of the issue with optic nerve damage. There is actually methanol in orange juice, and many other pectin containing fruits.

How about purging your bho close to a heater/oven, place it close enough to get the temperature you need to purge. Use a laser thermometer to get the temp dialed in to your desired need on the vacuum chamber.
Hope this can help..

BagAppeal said:

How about purging your bho close to a heater/oven, place it close enough to get the temperature you need to purge. Use a laser thermometer to get the temp dialed in to your desired need on the vacuum chamber.
Hope this can help..

Click to expand...

If you can't afford a vacuum oven this is basically all I do. I set my vacuum station up and get my oil on some parchment paper. I drop the parchment paper in the chamber and then let the vacuum run until I don't see anymore "surface action." When surface action stops it means temperatures have dropped and the solution is to viscous to release contaminants.

From here I shut off the vacuum and set that piece of parchment in a $20 toaster oven from Wal Mart on the lowest setting and watch it like a hawk. An IR thermometer like greywolf suggests would be a good tool to have for this. When the solution is soupy again I pull it out of the oven and get it into the vacuum chamber ASAP.

Basically I just repeat this process indefinitely until I've made shatter that is smooth to the touch and mostly transparent. The last oil I made has remained "shatter" for well over a month at room temperature and shows no signs of degradation or waxing. The smooth to the touch part is really important, it seems anything left sticky will start to form wax within a week or two. And remember kids, "Wax is Wack."

OGShush said:

The smooth to the touch part is really important, it seems anything left sticky will start to form wax . . . And remember kids, "Wax is Wack."

Click to expand...

^^^ Agree^^^ great low cost solution..

practice, practice and more practice

practice, practice and more practice

Learnt a lot of valuable info since i started this thread.
Massive shout to Greywolf for all of his information and help, if everyone was so generous with information the scene would be miles ahead of where it is now.

Peace