Going vertically - few questions

sublimesmoker · Nov 4, 2011

Hey man arent u coming off a lil harsh with BOB? I mean if someone who had his shit down like Bobble told me to listen to good advice I'd take it, and now that I think about it so have thousands of people, thats why he has a sticky on the top of this page, and ur still trying to figure out how to water urs.

I'm begining to wonder if u arent just trying to start shit, U obviously havent researched as much as u think u have, and u wont take people's advice whn they offer it from experience, and yeah Harry Gypsana, Wisco, Bobble all have succesful grows on here and u can't even post a pic of ur room or a plant?

And it would b different if everyone that has posted in ur thread wasnt trying to help u, and u keep questioning what people r telling u from experience. Now if u have so much knowledge and experience that u dont need anyone else's then why post in the first place. Their r people on here that just want to grow good marijuana and help others in that pursuit. You my friend dont seem like one of em. :ying:

2tm23 · Nov 4, 2011

Ok ill explain few issues weve got here.
Im not English so i might sound a bit harsh and that the only reason because dont know enough english to speak like'em.
Im not questioning anyone, im just asking questions related to subject of this thread - how to water rockwool slab when positioned vertically. Choc gave me some advice fine thanks for that but it doesnt mean i cant do some more research on my own. Found another info so im asking you guys what you think about that and soryy if answer "cos its shit" doesnt satisfy me enough - i feel that if i understand subject better its going to make me a better grower. And it offence me if someone tells me on my thread that i cant learn from someone experience. I can but still prefer to understand answers for asked questions.
Pisc are to follow when system is all build and prepared to grow plants in it. I simply dont have all day every day to make puctures and post them on forum - rather spend all my free time to build the system and read about how to avoid errors while growing... Pisc are not really necessary as the way it works is similar to EcoSystem but can describe what equipment i got
- AGrowTent doubke chamber
- 28 rockwool slabs
- 150L tub, water temp about 21C with hydor Ario 4 air pump suitable for up to 300L tanks
- 6500L/h water pump
- hanna Ph and EC GroChek meters
- AN Grow Micro Bloom PhPerfect formula + big bud + overdrive and many more but rather wont be usning them
- Ph up/down

Anyway i dont want to argue with you guys it wasnt my intension so lets dont waste our energy on arguing, sorry if you feel that way.

Harry Gypsna · Nov 4, 2011

You are welcome 2tm23 .
2tm23 didn't say anything dismissive to anyone, and to be fair Choc, your post in which you mentioned using several of these systems and not having a good experience with them, didn't say anything at all about your watering schedule, so asking why you thought the 24/7 watering idea was shit, was a perfectly valid question.
Watering 24 hours a day is pointless as the plants dont need the water/feed during the dark period, and running continously just seems a bad idea in rockwool-although if it is able to drain freely, rockwool retains a perfect air/moisture ratio. I still wouldnt run continously personally, but it would be intersting to see the results- but please do remember that Grodan are not testing with cannabis, more likely basil or lettuce, so what is true for them, may not be true for us.

Choc · Nov 4, 2011

Now look guys i dont normally get into tit for tat bullshit arguments but as neither of you can be bothered to read what i say or try and understand before opening your mouths then i will elaborate only on what i have already said in this thread...

ok post number 1

they are shit!!! sorry if you have one but honestly about 5 years ago i ran 6 of these for almost a year and they are appalling for so many reasons....

you can make a system better than the Eco out of wood and in my opinion the rockwool slabs hung vert are useless the bottoms get water logged while the tops dry out to quick...

honestly take a look at Bobbleheads racks FTW....

rockwool slabs hung vert are useless the bottoms get water logged while the tops dry out to quick...

My second reply...

you can buy coco slabs already done they work much better than these slabs but IMO just redesign your system next time so you are running vert but with flat slabs or pots as this way of growing is allways going to be a struggle...

on the feeding side of things i would water untill you see slight run off and then check a couple of hours later to see how the tops are drying out and add more waterings as and when you need them a pain in the start but once you have it dialled it will be easy...

In the Eco systems it had a dripper hose around the top with a dripper for each slab the slabs sat above the rez so the run off ran back into the water...

how is your setup set up? where will you water runoff too? and are you using run to water or recirculating?

on the feeding side of things i would water untill you see slight run off and then check a couple of hours later to see how the tops are drying out and add more waterings as and when you need them a pain in the start but once you have it dialled it will be easy...

Reply number 3

you have been advised that due to salt buildup i would imagine if you use House and Garden drip clean this will eliminate that problem... i would run your system run to waste the whole way threw but thats me either way will work but at least you know what your feeding with RTW as recirculating unless you are checking it 3 or 4 times a day your ph and ec can go up and down...

so yeah i would run your system run to wast.... put your pump on with a dripper at the top and wait for some water run off... about 4 hours later i would see how dry your rockwool is and consider another water this time time it to when you get run off it may be a very short amount of time as the first water was to get the slab wet now its semi wet it wont take as long to get wet.. get it? again checking in about 4 hours and if things are drying out then another water for the amount of time you timed last time and watch to see when you get run off.... you can now set the timer to come on for as long as you need as frequent as you need and know your plants will be getting what they need...

dont bother watering when the lights are out as its a waste and will cause stupidly crazy high humidity that will cause all sorts of problems later in flower.... your first water of the day should be as the lights come on IMO....

anything else i can help with give me a shout and pic's?

out of interest what size if your growing area what light are you using and how many plants do you have to play with?

i would run your system run to waste the whole way threw but thats me either way will work but at least you know what your feeding with RTW as recirculating unless you are checking it 3 or 4 times a day your ph and ec can go up and down...

so yeah i would run your system run to wast.... put your pump on with a dripper at the top and wait for some water run off... about 4 hours later i would see how dry your rockwool is and consider another water this time time it to when you get run off it may be a very short amount of time as the first water was to get the slab wet now its semi wet it wont take as long to get wet.. get it? again checking in about 4 hours and if things are drying out then another water for the amount of time you timed last time and watch to see when you get run off.... you can now set the timer to come on for as long as you need as frequent as you need and know your plants will be getting what they need...

dont bother watering when the lights are out as its a waste and will cause stupidly crazy high humidity that will cause all sorts of problems later in flower.... your first water of the day should be as the lights come on IMO....

at the end of that post i did say...

anything else i can help with give me a shout and pic's?

out of interest what size if your growing area what light are you using and how many plants do you have to play with?

To that you answered can i water 24/7????

Sorry for not being as enthusiastic as the first few posts but i thought i explained why they was shit and to be honest if you wasn't reading what i was righting it didnt matter what i wrote...

I have never once said you should not research what you are doing or that you should only listen to me, i am initialled to say what i want as are you this is a public forum.... ohh and your English looks fine to me...

HARRY To be fair "as you put it" perhaps you should read the thread before making a post in future dont you?

Choc · Nov 4, 2011

Just for the record i dont hold grudges if you look at all of my posts i only try and help people be it sometimes abrupt people who know me on here will tell you i know what im talking about and have always strived to help people and do not make it my business to try and start arguments...

This will be the last bit of advice i give on this thread....

If you have not started growing in the slabs yet, unless you are going to grow on them flat throw them in the bin.... im not saying you cant make them work but for the hassle you can make a better system and master that instead of wasting a whole 3+ months only to at the end realise you want to change your grow method....

I would stick a thread up with total grow area, what equipment you have and how many plants you are prepared to grow...

good luck with the slabs i wont say i told you so when you are on here saying they are SHIT!!!!

reinventing the wheel with vert slabs is not a winning formula take it from someone who knows......... :pimp3:

megayields · Nov 4, 2011

This thread desperately needs :kewlpics:

bobblehead · Nov 4, 2011

The trouble with the newbs is that they don't read. Choc has taken a lot of time to answer questions, only to have the answers ignored. Normally you have to search out this information, and good guys like Choc are spelling it out... To have it fall on deaf ears.

Don't grow in vert slabs. Ions have mass, and here on earth gravity pulls them to the ground... You'll never have a balanced medium.

megayields · Nov 5, 2011

uhh dude....

RE---> Originally Posted by bobblehead View Post
some people can't be helped bro... lol...

Experience will tell the newb why not to use vertical slabs... Yours or his for not listening to yours...

If you want to help, do it otherwise leave and dont come back.

Choc and Bobble probably knows more about plant chemistry and growing than most on this site, I listened to them and all it did was double my yields, you "might" want to listen to what they are offering you for free.

I'd pay to sit with either of them for a few hours.

Good luck!

2tm23 · Nov 5, 2011

hehe i dont want to be funny but you guys arguing here not me. being new on this forum i cant know who is mega super grower who isnt so i might be possibly right telling someone to go away if not giving me any advice on watering maybe shit slabs but i have them now and cant change things arond as babies already vegging. i doesnt mean i dont want to change it. i said already that want to change rockwool to hydroton possibly, for at least one reason - getting rid of 28 slabs every now and again would be pain in the arse...
anyway i dont like arguing myself and asked you guys not to do so as for generations thread wont be readable. any on you mod/admin here could change the subject to: "how to water vertically hung rockwool slabs" and maybe do some cleaning of unuseful posts please?

Choc said:
Now look guys i dont normally get into tit for tat bullshit arguments but as neither of you can be bothered to read what i say or try and understand before opening your mouths then i will elaborate only on what i have already said in this thread...

ok post number 1

rockwool slabs hung vert are useless the bottoms get water logged while the tops dry out to quick...

My second reply...

on the feeding side of things i would water untill you see slight run off and then check a couple of hours later to see how the tops are drying out and add more waterings as and when you need them a pain in the start but once you have it dialled it will be easy...

Reply number 3

i would run your system run to waste the whole way threw but thats me either way will work but at least you know what your feeding with RTW as recirculating unless you are checking it 3 or 4 times a day your ph and ec can go up and down...

so yeah i would run your system run to wast.... put your pump on with a dripper at the top and wait for some water run off... about 4 hours later i would see how dry your rockwool is and consider another water this time time it to when you get run off it may be a very short amount of time as the first water was to get the slab wet now its semi wet it wont take as long to get wet.. get it? again checking in about 4 hours and if things are drying out then another water for the amount of time you timed last time and watch to see when you get run off.... you can now set the timer to come on for as long as you need as frequent as you need and know your plants will be getting what they need...

dont bother watering when the lights are out as its a waste and will cause stupidly crazy high humidity that will cause all sorts of problems later in flower.... your first water of the day should be as the lights come on IMO....

at the end of that post i did say...

To that you answered can i water 24/7????

Sorry for not being as enthusiastic as the first few posts but i thought i explained why they was shit and to be honest if you wasn't reading what i was righting it didnt matter what i wrote...

I have never once said you should not research what you are doing or that you should only listen to me, i am initialled to say what i want as are you this is a public forum.... ohh and your English looks fine to me...

HARRY To be fair "as you put it" perhaps you should read the thread before making a post in future dont you?

Choc said:
Just for the record i dont hold grudges if you look at all of my posts i only try and help people be it sometimes abrupt people who know me on here will tell you i know what im talking about and have always strived to help people and do not make it my business to try and start arguments...

This will be the last bit of advice i give on this thread....

If you have not started growing in the slabs yet, unless you are going to grow on them flat throw them in the bin.... im not saying you cant make them work but for the hassle you can make a better system and master that instead of wasting a whole 3+ months only to at the end realise you want to change your grow method....

I would stick a thread up with total grow area, what equipment you have and how many plants you are prepared to grow...

good luck with the slabs i wont say i told you so when you are on here saying they are SHIT!!!!

reinventing the wheel with vert slabs is not a winning formula take it from someone who knows.........

and i never said you are wrong and never said i dont understand or havent read. why do you think that once you said sth everyone has to stick to it? its open conversation and everyones ideas even stupid and different from yours should be well appreciated as it may answer questions for the other people trying to find answer here on this forum.

bobblehead said:
The trouble with the newbs is that they don't read. Choc has taken a lot of time to answer questions, only to have the answers ignored. Normally you have to search out this information, and good guys like Choc are spelling it out... To have it fall on deaf ears.

Don't grow in vert slabs. Ions have mass, and here on earth gravity pulls them to the ground... You'll never have a balanced medium.

You guys dont listen to me either. I dont ignore your opinions... And will say it again its to late to change things around which doesnt mean i don want to unless ill find a way to do it in max 2 days. cash is not a big problem.

megayields said:
uhh dude....

RE---> Originally Posted by bobblehead View Post
some people can't be helped bro... lol...

Experience will tell the newb why not to use vertical slabs... Yours or his for not listening to yours...

If you want to help, do it otherwise leave and dont come back.

Choc and Bobble probably knows more about plant chemistry and growing than most on this site, I listened to them and all it did was double my yields, you "might" want to listen to what they are offering you for free.

I'd pay to sit with either of them for a few hours.

Good luck!

and again maybe you know them i dont so i dont neccessarly have to take theirs advice sariously cos they might be newb like me, no offence to gurus.

AGAIN THANKS EVERYONE FOR ADVICE and Harry i didnt forget about you man. About 24/7 watering i dont think youll see any results of me. Friend of mine much better grower than i am told me that main stem might damp off being too wet. he tried it in DWC with high water level and that hapoent to him. so it looks like 24/7 may not be good idea (maybe 12/12 watring with lights on might give a good results but im not a person trying new things - dont have enough resourses and time). Thanks again

bobblehead · Nov 5, 2011

If you have the slabs already, cut them into blocks. Go to my thread, check out my racks and latest watering system. Build your own and insert said blocks. Problems solved.

wisco61 · Nov 5, 2011

2tm23 said:
Choc really thanks for your help dont get me wrong im not telling your wron, all im doing is asking questions and trying to reason a bit. Lets take DWC system. Water is rich in oxygen so the plants can survive. Why then plants cant survive in rockwool if i water them well oxygenated water? And if I cant water them 24/7 or so Im trying to understand why i cant do it. I dont want to water them 24/7 but that sound to me like a good piece of logic...

The problem with that logic is in DWC the roots are submerged in water that is being continually oxygenated. What you are talking about is having oxygenated water and then pouring that into the rockwools. When you pour that on the water is just sitting in the rockwool and no longer being oxygenated. Pumping in more oxygenated water is just going to push more air out of the rockwool, lowering available air more. Just oxygenated water will not work with rockwool. For rockwool to work it needs to be moist not wet. If it is soaked, even with oxygenated water, it is not going to have enough air space to work correctly.

If you want to constantly water you need to use something like hydrotron that will maintain its oxygen holding capacity regardless of moisture content.

sublimesmoker · Nov 5, 2011

Hey, wasnt trying to b an ass, or rude or any of that. It's just difficult to see someone who seems to b seeking advice and trying to learn and then u question some of the most experienced growers on here. And another thing posting pics is important for people to help, most people around here are more visual then anything I think seeing ur tent or room is important, as is all the other variable's that go into setting up a grow, b it large or small.

I wish I had found ICMAG before I started my indoor grow. I ended up wasting alot of cash on worthless stuff like aircooled hoods and other B/S the hydro store talked me into buying. My point is that its not always the newest thing or the most expensive items that make a good grower. That come's from doing it and learning from other people that have done it, but thats just my :2cents:

.

I think Choc, Wisco, Harry, and Bobble have given u plenty to work with u just gotta figure out how u can make what u have work for what u need. :ying:

2tm23 · Nov 6, 2011

sublimesmoker · Nov 6, 2011

Now I see why ur stuck on figuring out the watering thing, as it look's like u have everything in place already. Are u going to run DTW like they suggest or recirc? I looked at alot of SOG grow's useing R/W that produced like crazy but they were mostly flat gardens with flood and drain or ebb and flow feeding like 2 or 3 times lights on only, this allows for optimum air water uptake and transpiration and what DHF is trying to tell people about, more isnt always better. Plants r like u and me they need time in between meals to sorta digest and stuff. :watchplant:

I think u have an amazing setup, and the potential for some killer smoke if u will just take a lil advice from these great growers on here. Try reading some of bobble's threads and filtering posts by DHF, Mega Yeilds, HGO, Bobble, Joesy Whales, they all try to help people on here. Or just go to the vert threads and click on the little upper rt catagories like rateing, views, and replies and reading the most viewed threads and highest rated ones. Theirs some amazing inspiration and learning to b had here. You seem like an inteligent person so im sure you'll figure it out. :wave:

bobblehead · Nov 6, 2011

Ok, I'm gonna elaborate a bit and get you to tear that down and start over...

Molecules have atomic mass, which translates to weight... Diffierent molecules have different weights, and so they're going to fall to the bottom at varying rates. Your fertilzer will be in solution at the top, and turn into something completely different once it hits the bottom. The different ion concentrations are going to cause varying pH levels. Watering 24/7 would fix this, but u can't.. so, ignore mine and chocs advise... And by the end of the grow you'll have you're own opinion of vertical slabs. Maybe u can make it work. Good luck. Ime science wins.

Wood is cheap. Build some racks.

madalasatori · Nov 6, 2011

I'm sure I saw Heath run a successful grow in coco slabs just like this??

bobblehead · Nov 6, 2011

What method of growing hasn't Heath tried? And how many times have you seen him grow with vert slabs? Just the one time. I mean I guess we'd need to ask the man himself to be certain, but he's busy atm.

Smaller root zones are more balanced, and that's part of why smaller plants higher in number will win out over the big plants... But you negate that advantage by giving them 1 tall root zone. Several horizontally stacked slabs would be another story.

Doubt me all you like...molecular weight is very real. Unless u can water around the clock, you won't be happy with a tall root zone.

Anti · Nov 6, 2011

OP: I've read this whole thread carefully. What I'm seeing in you is a guy with a lot of understanding "in theory" asking questions from guys who have experience. And then after you've asked for their experience, you still want "theory" to win. Nobody here giving you advice is selling you anything or getting anything for steering you toward or away from any concept. It's all intended to help.

Everybody experiments and you should too. But the reason that I post my grow threads from concept to sketch to build to grow is so that I have experts (like the homies in here trying to help you) throwing insight at me throughout the process.

On my builds my concept changed in some pretty major ways from start to finish based on the input of the growers in our community.

If you aren't sure who to listen to, you should be reading threads of your own choosing and finding voices that speak to you. What I do is go to a section I want to know more about (i.e. Vertical / Colosseum Growing) and then read the stickies or click on the column to sort all the views in the subforum by # of posts or # of views and then read them thoroughly.

Good luck with your grow and please post up your results so we can all learn with you.

2tm23 · Nov 6, 2011

wisco61 said:
If you want to constantly water you need to use something like hydrotron that will maintain its oxygen holding capacity regardless of moisture content.

Thats exactly what im going to do, probably even this gro.

sublimesmoker said:
Now I see why ur stuck on figuring out the watering thing, as it look's like u have everything in place already. Are u going to run DTW like they suggest or recirc? I looked at alot of SOG grow's useing R/W that produced like crazy but they were mostly flat gardens with flood and drain or ebb and flow feeding like 2 or 3 times lights on only, this allows for optimum air water uptake and transpiration and what DHF is trying to tell people about, more isnt always better. Plants r like u and me they need time in between meals to sorta digest and stuff.

I think u have an amazing setup, and the potential for some killer smoke if u will just take a lil advice from these great growers on here. Try reading some of bobble's threads and filtering posts by DHF, Mega Yeilds, HGO, Bobble, Joesy Whales, they all try to help people on here. Or just go to the vert threads and click on the little upper rt catagories like rateing, views, and replies and reading the most viewed threads and highest rated ones. Theirs some amazing inspiration and learning to b had here. You seem like an inteligent person so im sure you'll figure it out.

I wasnt really stuck on figuring out watering - system wasnt ready. I like to say "think first (ask if you not sure) than act". I asked opinions here in the first place to have my own on watering and see what others (possibly more expierienced growers than i am) think. Now i know most of people wouldn`t even try to use vertical slabs (probably thats why is so hard to find any info bout growing in them)

bobblehead said:
Ok, I'm gonna elaborate a bit and get you to tear that down and start over...

Molecules have atomic mass, which translates to weight... Diffierent molecules have different weights, and so they're going to fall to the bottom at varying rates. Your fertilzer will be in solution at the top, and turn into something completely different once it hits the bottom. The different ion concentrations are going to cause varying pH levels. Watering 24/7 would fix this, but u can't.. so, ignore mine and chocs advise... And by the end of the grow you'll have you're own opinion of vertical slabs. Maybe u can make it work. Good luck. Ime science wins.

Wood is cheap. Build some racks.

bobblehead said:
What method of growing hasn't Heath tried? And how many times have you seen him grow with vert slabs? Just the one time. I mean I guess we'd need to ask the man himself to be certain, but he's busy atm.

Smaller root zones are more balanced, and that's part of why smaller plants higher in number will win out over the big plants... But you negate that advantage by giving them 1 tall root zone. Several horizontally stacked slabs would be another story.

Doubt me all you like...molecular weight is very real. Unless u can water around the clock, you won't be happy with a tall root zone.

I dont doubt you man im only asking question. Now as you guys convienced me not to use rockwool slabs positioned that way (and as the first tests show pH will never stay at the same desired level) im going to switch to PVC pipes filled with hydroton, sth like that (ill try to explain how i see it)

It would be about 120cm high at least 10cm diameter. They would be filled with hydroton all the way. Holes for plants would be max 5cm drilled one piece with the hole in the middle of them for plant stem and to stop hydroton balls from falling out the pipe. What do you think about that idea? I understand that constant watering would be the way to go? Or is there another way? Or is it fucked up idea again?

bobblehead · Nov 6, 2011

2tm23 said:
Thats exactly what im going to do, probably even this gro.

I wasnt really stuck on figuring out watering - system wasnt ready. I like to say "think first (ask if you not sure) than act". I asked opinions here in the first place to have my own on watering and see what others (possibly more expierienced growers than i am) think. Now i know most of people wouldn`t even try to use vertical slabs (probably thats why is so hard to find any info bout growing in them)

I dont doubt you man im only asking question. Now as you guys convienced me not to use rockwool slabs positioned that way (and as the first tests show pH will never stay at the same desired level) im going to switch to PVC pipes filled with hydroton, sth like that (ill try to explain how i see it)

It would be about 120cm high at least 10cm diameter. They would be filled with hydroton all the way. Holes for plants would be max 5cm drilled one piece with the hole in the middle of them for plant stem and to stop hydroton balls from falling out the pipe. What do you think about that idea? I understand that constant watering would be the way to go? Or is there another way? Or is it fucked up idea again?

I think you've got a better plan now. Good luck. We just want you to succeed instead of repeating our errors.

Going vertically - few questions

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