Why do you use all the bs hype money grabbing ferts (if you do)

Mikell · Feb 28, 2018

If you watch, all they did was to change the obsession with silver bullets in a bottle to silver bullets in a bag.

"Bruh you have to use aloe and willow tips, it's the bomb"

Replacing words like weight and frost with primary and secondary metabolite production.

Same shit different pile.

Trich_Tyson · Feb 28, 2018

I don't.
But it's easy to understand why.
Marketing is a huge part. But i think a lot of it is because they tell you what to do.. You buy bottles with a little pamphlet that tells you the exact recipe to use for every week.
They think growing weed is gunna be easy, and they don't wanna research, just be told what to do.
some peeps get lucky.. they provide a decent enough enviro, and maybe have a bit of a green thumb, and it works..

but for peeps like me, i needed to learn a little about nutrient uptake, understand salts and fertilizers, and make decisions based on knowledge and evidence.

Bare minimum is the only thing that works for me.. whether it be a simple one part (i.e. maxi, foliage pro, V+B) or jacks/cal nit.

I always say.. these plants are dead simple to grow, and they can thrive on a wide range of nutrition.. that said learn what RATIO of nutrients works best for you, dial your program into those RATIOs and stick to it, varying strength as needed.. from there you can work on things like speeding vegetative growth, or increasing flower size..

minimize variables, and don't rely on a precise "recipe" to determine your outcome.

BTW i am speaking to nobody lol.. just to the thread title.

progro · Mar 8, 2018

I used to use heaps. I loved my additives and I used them religiously. Hygrozyme, fulvic, seaweed, foliar, carbs, vitamins, silica, bennies, pk boosters, bud blood, calmag, finishers, triacantonol, kool bloom etc, the list goes on. I got sick of the money I was spending on the pretty labeled bottles and I got real sick of off the shelf nutrients. I started to find that unless I used a company’s entire line I’d usually get deficiency’s. Then I discovered the sterling work that Glow, Yosemite Sam, spurr, avenger and dizzle kush did in regards to optimal nutrition for cannabis ( those guys are the bomb! ) The high P myth was busted, optimal ppm ranges were distinguished and my brain exploded! I read everything on manic botanix, ( which is Glows website ) unlearned everything I’ve learnt in the last 25 years of growing, I researched, read and re read everything I could find on formulating and I’ve never looked back. Seriously no comparison. Quality and quantity like I haven’t seen for a long time. I ran Yosemite Sams recommendation:
N. P. K. Ca. Mg. Si
VEG: 150-24-150-170-65-25
BLOOM: 110-60-170-165-60-25

Ended up with 5.4 lbs from 2 plants with a 1000watt CMH over each. They were grown in 65 litre builders buckets for 4 weeks of veg with a 50/50 coco perlite mix. I grew Cherry bomb from bomb seeds and I must say that the pheno I got from a freebie seed is exactly as described. Running the same strain again. So the only additives I use are silica, fulvic acid and trichodermia. I foliar feed with seaweed, triacantonol and some boron when I switch to 12/12. That’s about it. If you can get the environment close to optimal and supply optimal nutrition you’ll always do well. Yield does not come in a bottle. Environment first and foremost, good nutrition and don’t overwater!!! Water coco once a day unless you’ve cut it with perlite. A 50/50 mix will allow frequent fertigation during lights on and that’s when you can really crank out some bud but if just straight coco then once a day is a go. By the way, low P in veg ie, 24 ppm keeps the plants shorter and stockier during grow and if kept at that level during the first 2 to 3 weeks of flower will limit stretch considerably but more importantly give you nice and compact flower structures.

beta · Mar 8, 2018

I agree with everything you said except for this bit:

progro said:
...and don’t overwater!!! Water coco once a day unless you’ve cut it with perlite. A 50/50 mix will allow frequent fertigation during lights on and that’s when you can really crank out some bud but if just straight coco then once a day is a go.

Coco already drains just as fast as pure perlite. Cutting your coco with perlite does nothing for its drainage ability, it just means less medium. I water up to 12 times per day with pure 100% coco and get great results.

hazyfontazy · Mar 8, 2018

progro said:
Ended up with 5.4 lbs from 2 plants with a 1000watt CMH over each. They were grown in 65 litre builders buckets for 4 weeks of veg with a 50/50 coco perlite mix. .

pics ?

progro · Mar 8, 2018

beta said:
I agree with everything you said except for this bit:

Coco already drains just as fast as pure perlite. Cutting your coco with perlite does nothing for its drainage ability, it just means less medium. I water up to 12 times per day with pure 100% coco and get great results.

True mate but I use large pots so I should’ve been more specific with watering I was just giving a general guideline for anyone new to coco. Canna actually state to water once daily with coco but each to their own. Small pots no probs but larger pots water less. I find with the perlite added gives a nice airy mix which the plants and roots love. Also if you run into any problems ie, nute lockup then having an airy mix allows for quick recovery after flushing.

progro · Mar 9, 2018

hazyfontazy said:
pics ?

There you go mate. I’ve had some issues with this run with a hot summer, faulty ph tester and high P levels from lots of ph down. This all happened during the first 2 weeks of 12/12 so I had one plant lock up and the other stretch like a mofo, out of control they were. Once I realised though, the damage had already been done. Under control now but should’ve been better. When all that happened is when I realised that ph down adds P to the mix. Lol I know, rookie mistake but I kicked myself for overlooking it which means that my last run had P levels in excess of 120ppm.... so much for my low P grow. So now what you see have just gone 6wks flower, they’ll go 9 and I’m using only ph down for my 60ppm P. I’ll source some sulphuric acid for the next run as well as keep using the citric acid as I currently do with the phosphoric which will give me precise control next run. Currently running Glows formula
132-60-250-190-55-25-115
N P K Ca Mg Si S
Which is used from week 4 flower onwards.

Cannabean · Mar 9, 2018

progro said:
I used to use heaps. I loved my additives and I used them religiously. Hygrozyme, fulvic, seaweed, foliar, carbs, vitamins, silica, bennies, pk boosters, bud blood, calmag, finishers, triacantonol, kool bloom etc, the list goes on. I got sick of the money I was spending on the pretty labeled bottles and I got real sick of off the shelf nutrients. I started to find that unless I used a company’s entire line I’d usually get deficiency’s. Then I discovered the sterling work that Glow, Yosemite Sam, spurr, avenger and dizzle kush did in regards to optimal nutrition for cannabis ( those guys are the bomb! ) The high P myth was busted, optimal ppm ranges were distinguished and my brain exploded! I read everything on manic botanix, ( which is Glows website ) unlearned everything I’ve learnt in the last 25 years of growing, I researched, read and re read everything I could find on formulating and I’ve never looked back. Seriously no comparison. Quality and quantity like I haven’t seen for a long time. I ran Yosemite Sams recommendation:
N. P. K. Ca. Mg. Si
VEG: 150-24-150-170-65-25
BLOOM: 110-60-170-165-60-25

Ended up with 5.4 lbs from 2 plants with a 1000watt CMH over each. They were grown in 65 litre builders buckets for 4 weeks of veg with a 50/50 coco perlite mix. I grew Cherry bomb from bomb seeds and I must say that the pheno I got from a freebie seed is exactly as described. Running the same strain again. So the only additives I use are silica, fulvic acid and trichodermia. I foliar feed with seaweed, triacantonol and some boron when I switch to 12/12. That’s about it. If you can get the environment close to optimal and supply optimal nutrition you’ll always do well. Yield does not come in a bottle. Environment first and foremost, good nutrition and don’t overwater!!! Water coco once a day unless you’ve cut it with perlite. A 50/50 mix will allow frequent fertigation during lights on and that’s when you can really crank out some bud but if just straight coco then once a day is a go. By the way, low P in veg ie, 24 ppm keeps the plants shorter and stockier during grow and if kept at that level during the first 2 to 3 weeks of flower will limit stretch considerably but more importantly give you nice and compact flower structures.

Great info! Thanks!

oldbootz · Mar 9, 2018

I grow in 200 liter tubs. I make a soil mix once for each tub and re-use it forever. Each new planting I add some amendments to the top and it slowly waters in over time. This is the most hassle free and cheapest way to grow that I have found, and the soil gets better over time as the amendments break down properly.

My mix is cut heavily with perlite and coco so it drains well and I usually do a watering once every 4-5 days in early veg and every 2-3 days in flowering when the plants are bigger. I used to foliar spray epsom salts on some indicas I was growing but these sativas that I grow now don't need it. These days its just plain tap water that I use, never check for pH (its high like 7.8 last time I looked).

All the bottle nutrients I purchased over the years just sit in a dusty cupboard.

progro · Mar 9, 2018

oldbootz said:
I grow in 200 liter tubs. I make a soil mix once for each tub and re-use it forever. Each new planting I add some amendments to the top and it slowly waters in over time. This is the most hassle free and cheapest way to grow that I have found, and the soil gets better over time as the amendments break down properly.

My mix is cut heavily with perlite and coco so it drains well and I usually do a watering once every 4-5 days in early veg and every 2-3 days in flowering when the plants are bigger. I used to foliar spray epsom salts on some indicas I was growing but these sativas that I grow now don't need it. These days its just plain tap water that I use, never check for pH (its high like 7.8 last time I looked).

All the bottle nutrients I purchased over the years just sit in a dusty cupboard.

Had a peep at that grow journal and digging your work oldbootz. Old school man, old school

progro · Mar 9, 2018

progro said:
There you go mate. I’ve had some issues with this run with a hot summer, faulty ph tester and high P levels from lots of ph down. This all happened during the first 2 weeks of 12/12 so I had one plant lock up and the other stretch like a mofo, out of control they were. Once I realised though, the damage had already been done. Under control now but should’ve been better. When all that happened is when I realised that ph down adds P to the mix. Lol I know, rookie mistake but I kicked myself for overlooking it which means that my last run had P levels in excess of 120ppm.... so much for my low P grow. So now what you see have just gone 6wks flower, they’ll go 9 and I’m using only ph down for my 60ppm P. I’ll source some sulphuric acid for the next run as well as keep using the citric acid as I currently do with the phosphoric which will give me precise control next run. Currently running Glows formula
132-60-250-190-55-25-115
N P K Ca Mg Si S
Which is used from week 4 flower onwards.

Another pic

Weird · Mar 9, 2018

Mikell said:
If you watch, all they did was to change the obsession with silver bullets in a bottle to silver bullets in a bag.

"Bruh you have to use aloe and willow tips, it's the bomb"

Replacing words like weight and frost with primary and secondary metabolite production.

Same shit different pile.

I actually posted the science behind variable composition in cultivar expression based on rhizosphere interactions including the differences between synthetic, organic and microbiological inputs

it is in this thread as well as a 10-1 offer on the money to put some facts to this "open" debate

not one taker including you, fuck you can't even pony up a catalog of your good works all you have an opinion with nothing to show for it

I get it, most people can't pull off organics because it doesn't come with instructions and it takes applied effort and time to pull it off

more than most internet trolls have to invest so yeah I get it

LOL mikell

the debate is still open prove me an asshole I am sure plenty of people would love to shut my big mouth right the fuck up

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=346138&page=41

Dog Star · Mar 9, 2018

I like your persistance Weird... and am also huge beliver in organics as only one option
for growing..

definitly can be pulled 1 g per watt,depends of a strain offcourse,i haved in organic setup
also plants that gived me 1.8 grams per watt..

and itsa meds that please everybody who tryes them.. dont go back on synth nutes
that i start mine career in begginings when i didnt know how actually plants
grows,didnt know for organics as i was tought chems must be better..

now i know some stuff more wider than then.. i belive most of folks are like that,
usually those converts from NPK to organics...

beta · Mar 9, 2018

Dog Star said:
I like your persistance Weird... and am also huge beliver in organics as only one option
for growing..

definitly can be pulled 1 g per watt,depends of a strain offcourse,i haved in organic setup
also plants that gived me 1.8 grams per watt..

and itsa meds that please everybody who tryes them.. dont go back on synth nutes
that i start mine career in begginings when i didnt know how actually plants
grows,didnt know for organics as i was tought chems must be better..

now i know some stuff more wider than then.. i belive most of folks are like that,
usually those converts from NPK to organics...

I'm a long time organic grower who converted to NPK, and I wouldn't in a million years consider going back. Quality is every bit as good, yield is way up, and my life has been simplified.

Weird · Mar 9, 2018

when you read a post like mikell's which is full of confidence but betrays our current scientific understanding you can understand why think these conversations are a fucking joke

I posted the science here too many times for this to be anything but a absolute fucking joke and a way to ruin the value of information here

10 - 1 on the money for anyone who would like to debate the differences between methodologies as trivial in regards to expression

but let me perfectly frank there is nothing that screams I have no clue about this plant if you haven't seen the differences in expression both primary and secondary relative to inputs

that is why so many people get fucking upset when I call them out on it and still they have no fucking clue and those who get one, well some of them let me know that too

LOL kids

maybe on day they can pony up a logical argument and not some juvenile no brain needed straw man argument

https://youtu.be/5IsSpAOD6K8?t=105

hazyfontazy · Mar 9, 2018

progro said:
There you go mate. I’ve had some issues with this run with a hot summer, faulty ph tester and high P levels from lots of ph down. This all happened during the first 2 weeks of 12/12 so I had one plant lock up and the other stretch like a mofo, out of control they were. Once I realised though, the damage had already been done. Under control now but should’ve been better. When all that happened is when I realised that ph down adds P to the mix. Lol I know, rookie mistake but I kicked myself for overlooking it which means that my last run had P levels in excess of 120ppm.... so much for my low P grow. So now what you see have just gone 6wks flower, they’ll go 9 and I’m using only ph down for my 60ppm P. I’ll source some sulphuric acid for the next run as well as keep using the citric acid as I currently do with the phosphoric which will give me precise control next run. Currently running Glows formula
132-60-250-190-55-25-115
N P K Ca Mg Si S
Which is used from week 4 flower onwards.

using tap or ro water ?

hazyfontazy · Mar 9, 2018

beta said:
I'm a long time organic grower who converted to NPK, and I wouldn't in a million years consider going back. Quality is every bit as good, yield is way up, and my life has been simplified.

surely you know organic is superior ,you must have done it wrong

Mikell · Mar 9, 2018

I knew you would bite that hook. Forgive me, I do enjoy prodding you.

Like beta, I've grown organic and went back. I prefer coco and conventional nutrients. Use your google-fu to discern the definition of preference.

We've gone over this before. You google keywords and arbitrarily post the results after quickly glancing them over. Rarely is it specifically relevant and 1 out of 10 results stand up to scrutiny.

That you so quickly devolved whatever point you're trying to make into personal attacks speaks volumes, no? Why is it that everyone you disagree with is labeled an idiot, that they "did it wrong" or whatever pettiness you choose to fling?

This topic is a debate of ideas. Settling debates with flower pictures is the playground of ignorance. Glancing over two decades of forum posts, one begins to understand why some feel it has merit. They can not articulate ideas to those that do not already believe, and being too emotional to survive a prolonged debate, throw down the gauntlet.

Very similar to the type of lummox that tries to debate ideas with their fists, yes?

I've crafted my own personality here after people I respect. People like granger, who earn respect for the strength of their ideas, founded on experience, not a gallery of pictures anyone can cherry pick from their own work. People who do not expect respect because they have lived a few decades, or popped their nose into a pamphlet on Eastern philosophy.

progro · Mar 9, 2018

hazyfontazy said:
using tap or ro water ?

Tap water. Emailed my city water and got all of the elemental percentages. All incorporated into my formula.

Buddler · Mar 10, 2018

Mikell;8171699) I have found a Jack's alternative in Canada.[/QUOTE said:
Where in Canada Mikell? Ive been looking only find high shipping prices from the States ..

Why do you use all the bs hype money grabbing ferts (if you do)

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