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Joe Horn vigilante or murderer?

smoke1sun

What Goes Around Comes Around. But Am I Comming Or
Veteran
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mA__Shw5x90&feature=related

Heres a video of the story.

"Texans are debating if a man who said he was defending his neighbor's property when he shot and killed two suspected burglars was within his rights.

Texas state law allows people to use deadly force in order to protect their property. And so far, Pasadena, Texas, resident Joe Horn has not been charged in the shooting deaths of Manuel De Jesus, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30, earlier this week.

Horn, 61 ran out of his house when he suspected the men were attempting to burglarize his neighbor's home. He called 911 to alert authorities of the situation, and the conversation has been preserved on tape.

Joe Horn: Hurry up man. Catch these guys, will ya? 'Cause I ain't gonna. I'm gonna be honest with ya. I'm not gonna let 'em go. I'm not gonna let them get away with this.

The dispatcher begged him to wait for police instead of taking any action.

Horn: You hear the shotgun clicking and I'm going.
911 Dispatcher: Don't go outside.

On the recording, Horn can be heard threatening to shoot the men if they move.

Horn: Move, you're dead.

Still, Horn's attorney insists his client is not an out-of-control vigilante.

"Joe is not a vigilante," said the attorney, Tom Lambright. "He's not a Rambo. He is exactly the opposite of that. He's a nice, loving family man."

But Ortiz's wife, Diamond Morgan, said she believes Horn used excessive force.

"[Horn] said that he feared for his life. But he made the 911 call. And the dispatcher kept telling him don't go outside," she said. "I feel he wanted to shoot them anyway."

Police said a grand jury will determine if what Horn did was illegal.

Meanwhile, he has expressed some regret about what occurred.

"The events of that day will weigh heavily on me for the rest of my life. My thoughts go out to the loved ones of the deceased," Horn said in a statement to ABC News."




What do you guys Think. Justified or no. Please lets keep it civil, i just wanna no if you guys think personal property is worth killing for, or it could be looked at as is personal property worth dieing for?
 

Tronic

Member
its the law in good ole tx.

personally, i like the idea that your home is your castle, domain, whatever. screw cali (where i love and grew up and will be returning to) and their absurd liberal gun/home protection laws.
 
G

Guest

I don't think the guy should be charged or praised for the murder, it's pretty clear the guy overreacted (he could have shot up their car or at least aimed for the legs) but when you decide to rob someone you should give up the expectation of being treated reasonably. Ultimately the robbers brought it upon themselves IMO.
peace
 

NserUame

Member
He killed both of them....shooting one of them would get the point across. I'm all for the second ammendment, anyone breaking into my home will leave with lead in their knee, however killing someone really should be a last resort.
 

okwildfire

Active member
mtlgrower said:
I don't think the guy should be charged or praised for the murder, it's pretty clear the guy overreacted (he could have shot up their car or at least aimed for the legs) but when you decide to rob someone you should give up the expectation of being treated reasonably. Ultimately the robbers brought it upon themselves IMO.
peace
yeah..shoot em in the leg..besides a head or hart shot..its about as bad of a place to get shot..people watch to much tv..in my book the man is A HERO!!!! but yeah..next time shoot em in the legs..they will die alot faster..its more humane..naw screw it..make the crackhead suffer...
 
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NserUame

Member
Uh you watch too much TV...femoral artery is in the thigh, shoot someone in the shin or knee and theres very little chance of bleeding to death. Not to mention a shot to the shin or knee is incredibly painful and every time they limp to the bathroom they'll remember you.
 
G

Guest

hey,
i don't want to start a fuking flame war or anything but people usually survive a shotgun wound to the leg especially if it is from a distance, look Cheney shot someone in the face and the guy died of a heart attack not the G.S.W. If it was a .45 or .50 rifle I'd say your right, the dudes probably gonna bleed out but a shell in the ass probably won't kill you.
peace
 

okwildfire

Active member
mtlgrower said:
hey,
i don't want to start a fuking flame war or anything but people usually survive a shotgun wound to the leg especially if it is from a distance, look Cheney shot someone in the face and the guy died of a heart attack not the G.S.W. If it was a .45 or .50 rifle I'd say your right, the dudes probably gonna bleed out but a shell in the ass probably won't kill you.
peace
lol naw man no flaming..i guess ya miss understood me lol...hell shoot someone in the hand and they could die..shock...but anyway..they guy that killed the crackheads..he's still my hero..lol
 
G

Guest

I'm surprised so many people think it's ok to shoot 2 people that posed no treath whatsoever to the killer. He could have just waited for the police to arrive, there was no need for shooting those burglars, there is no way this murderer can be justified imo.
I don't like burglars either and i agree they wouldn't have been shot if they weren't burgling a house, but that doesn't make it right to kill them and take the law in your own hands, i hope the shooter gets a hefty sentence but i know he won't get what he deserves in tx.
 
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C

Classyathome

"They're comin' right for us" - Uncle Jimbo

My story would have been I warned 'em to stop, and they attacked me.

Prove it otherwise.

Those poor robbers - see their pics (mugshots) on tv? Couple o' sad sack goons there...

2 less douchebags in the world - boo frickin hoo
 

smoke1sun

What Goes Around Comes Around. But Am I Comming Or
Veteran
Classyathome said:
"They're comin' right for us" - Uncle Jimbo

My story would have been I warned 'em to stop, and they attacked me.

Prove it otherwise.

Those poor robbers - see their pics (mugshots) on tv? Couple o' sad sack goons there...

2 less douchebags in the world - boo frickin hoo

Have you listen to the 911 tapes?

It seems this guy had a itchy trigger finger and he scratched it.
 

Pixelante

Member
IMO he used extremely excessive force, and should be charged with two counts of manslaughter at the minimum. He should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

The dispatcher said units were on the way. He lives in Pasadena, where it takes the cops about 3 minutes to show up. The dispatcher told him repeatedly just to stay inside his house.

He not only didn't listen, he made the conscious decision to be a ****ing asshole and argue with her, and then go outside and shoot them, after informing her it was his intent to kill them without waiting for the authorities to arrive. He was looking for trouble, and he went out of his way to find it.

Last time I checked, that's murder. Expressing premeditation to kill people in a recorded call followed by killing said people is murder. Period.

Killing someone who comes into your home in the middle of the night in self-defense is one thing, and I don't think anybody here is making the claim it isn't okay to do so.

Aggressively pursuing two individuals who are no threat to you, ignoring the instructions of a 911 dispatcher, informing the dispatcher that you intend to kill said harmless individuals, and then killing them and claiming it was because you were scared is something totally different.

People on this board seem to have a severe misunderstanding of how Texans view their gun and property rights. We are not the Wiki-Wiki-Wild Wild West with Will ****ing Smith where everyone packs heat and rides horses, people. The area in which this guy lived is entirely suburban and peaceful.

In my opinion this man at the very least does not deserve the right to own a firearm, as clearly he has absolutely no idea when it is and is not okay to use it to kill other human beings.
 
W

Wunderkind

Did the guy have an itchy trigger finger? Yes.

Could he have acted otherwise? Yes.

Is what he did wrong? No.


I'm as liberal as they come, but these people were robbing the house. The man caught them and gave them fair warning, "you move, you die." They probably tried to run or attack the man and he acted on his gut. Score one, er two, for the good guys.
 
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trumie04

Member
I don't think that its legal to kill someone if they are breaking the law. If you are defending yourself, that's fine, shoot away. But you can't just shoot whoever you want, just because they are breaking the law. What crimes justify killing the individual? Should you be able to kill someone if they are committing a felony? How about a misdemeanor?
 

9Lives

three for playing, three for straying, and three f
Veteran
if it was indeed burglary..

Burglary, Robbery, Rape, Murder, General violence against others...CAN NOT BE JUSTIFIED EVER! He did right by taking them out!

No big loss..just a few assholes less in this world!
 
he's a hero where i am from.... shit around here you'll get shot at for just trespassing. i have to agree though, i see someone robbing my neighbors and i'm gunna' take the ****er down. if you don't want to be shot at don't rob houses and find a new hustle... like a real job.
 
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