Breeding ethics

After seeing all the fuss year after year about whats right and whats wrong on these threads about breeding, and who has the right to stake their claim on genetics it has become a gray area. with many conflicting opinions most of which on the internet are just whispers im the wind.
I think that maybe there should be an offical thread where breeders and cultivators can come and actually write up ideas and policies that actually put some sort of balance to who puts what name genetics or maybe even if they want there line to be out crossed or crossed ethically.
Im guess im saying that there Are no lines drawn when someone makes a cross, maybe it can be openly said on here instead of it being held to the standard of miscommunication.

Its just an idea and maybe it can give a better understanding and direction on the subject

I can summarize the past and present state of cannabis breeders' ethics in two words: anything goes.

OldCoolSativa said:

I can summarize the past and present state of cannabis breeders' ethics in two words: anything goes.

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this seems to be the way it its.. you hear on this podcasts that breeders would prefer to be asked permission, and they want things done the right way.

yet they can't be bothered (the majority, not all just alot) to return emails, let alone answer questions.

I'm starting to develop an opinion based on all this, If you are releasing seed and can't be bothered to answer an email regarding information about their strains, why should anyone ask permission?

if your releasing seed, you are passing out your work on your own accord to make a buck. If you make them feminized you are limiting the potential you can get out of it. no males..(in theory anyway)

If these guys wanted to keep their stuff on lockdown they'd be growing it all themselves and selling it that way.. Not release regular seed or feminized seed or clones.

But on the same token, I'm not about to claim someone else's work as my own it not my strain, it is merely my plants. What I choose to do with them is my accord. (given the obvious, the world doesn't need more limited genetics i'm not about to work a line and release it as it in f5)

But being someone having no interest beyond finding something that works for them that would be unique in a huddle, My only interest for moving that stuff is if it somehow came in too strong therapeutic benefit for a oddball issue.

breeders...ethics..... don't think those 2 words go together.... at least in
99.999999999 of the cases...

IMO its all about your integrity and having respect for work others have put in.

Yes if you buy something its yours to do as you wish with.

But on the other hand if you buy something thats popular and make f2's or s1's of someone elses work to resell thats pretty scummy and says alot about the 'breeder' or person reselling them seeds.

It also depends if the seeds that you are making f2's or s1's are still for sale or had been discontinued years ago, if they had been discontinued years ago then technically i would class what the person is doing as preservation and helping get old genetics back out in to the community. Where as if the beans were still for sale then the person making f2's or s1's is obviously just trying to capitalize on another persons work and success.

Then theres the argument of using someone elses male. IMO the polite thing to do would be to ask to use the male if you are planning on relasing seeds, but you dont have to.

But like with the f2's and S1's i guess it depends on weather you are planning to use the male in one or 2 crosses. Or if you are going to use the male and hit up every clone you can get your hands on.

IMO if you are going to use that male and chuck pollen on anything and everything, with plans to sell all the seeds for cash, thats wrong and the person doing so is just trying to capitalize of of someone elses work, reputation or name by saying they used a male from so and so's seeds. IMO it says alot about the person doing so and the lack of integrity they have. But at the end of the day theres nothing stopping that person from doing so.

In the end theres 2 types of 'breeders', the ones who are in it for the love of the plant, who have put time and dedication in to their work and the ones who are just out here to make as much money as quickly as they can and pump out as many crosses as they can

It all comes down to the consumer and who they want to support. Personally i would much rather support the guy whos been putting in hard work over the years to develop something rather than the guy who is just trying to make a quick buck from the first persons work, or has just been going to the clone shop and reversing and chucking pollen over everything they can get their hands on.

I don't see a big deal with using other people's seeds to breed, even Sam The Skunkman is guilty of it. Of course I believe he was't happy about Nevil selling Skunk pure, but most of us use genetics from Sam and Nevil somewhere down the line.

Meanwhile you have phylios saying what I pretty much knew, that you can grow 100 seeds of a so called strain and the DNA all varies. I'm sure they have DNA mapped plenty of so called true breeding lines like Skunk #1 and Northern Lights.

Really makes you wonder if a real true breeding cannabis variety is even possible. Just a look at hops which is related to cannabis seems unlikely since all the best hops plants are sold from clones of course you can find something you like better from seeds.

I certainly have not seen any cannabis (strain) breed true like a tomato variety. Of course you can breed some traits in but selection is still needed. Really I have found a lot of plants much better in F2 than from reputable breeders selling so called F1's. Meanwhile I have heard many times F1 is the best of course breeders will tell you such lies, since they want you to buy 5 packs instead of 1 to make F2's to select from. Of course I'd happily buy 5 packs at a time still if they didn't want $100+ for 10 seeds!!

I see zero true breeding being done. Nobody is working huge numbers to stabalize. A lot is in a name, so a brand cutting is crossed with their or anothers male. Willa, ya got breeding.

There is something more prized to me about pollen chuckers selling yester year crosses, f2s, or cuts I cannot get with interesting males. Sorta at the chuckers mercy with the male being ideal or not.

It’s pretty simple in my eyes.

If a breeder has a project he doesn’t want hacked, in one way or another, then they have to keep those lines to themselves.

It is absurd to think otherwise because the reality of the cannabis seed business says this is so.

That said & IMO,
Folks that make obligations as testers shouldn’t use the resultant plants in breeding projects without the breeders permission. (allow the breeder to release their work)

If Any seeds are obtained (free) with an agreement to not use for specific things then it is the receivers responsibility to honor that request.

ANY SEED THAT IS OBTAINED VIA AN EXCHANGE OF MONEY...
The receiver if free to do with as they please including using in their own breeding projects, regardless of demands made by the original breeder.
While I feel it is unethical to breed & release F2, F3, etc of another breeders work, making such for personal is just fine.
Beans are expensive as fuck!

Spluge forth and commence the babying

You buy the seeds, you own the seeds. If you chose to take a breeder's F1 to make F2, I do not see the problem. A competent breeder can do better F2 of their own gear than most people could.

I think if you breed for profit or recognition using other peoples work then you should acknowledge the origins of the original genetics. To not do so is just selfish and shows a lack of integrity.

If I buy two horses, breed em, and sell the fole, do I owe the breeder I bought the sire and damn from? Other than saying on the papers their lineage?

Do whatever you want imo. Way i see it is every breeder got theirs from somewhere, permission or not it really doesnt matter. Its a compliment to the breeder imo to create seed from their work. More people working on the same line is better than 1. Experimenting with different hybrids of the same strain. Finding that keeper hybrid.

Basically it doesnt matter what rules and stuff you guys make up. In the canna world most dont follow the rules anyway lol.

All good views im glad every one is shedding light from their perspective
I wonder what some old school and new era breeders have to say on the subject

The problem is some breeders suck as business men and some business men suck at being a breeder and when u have that un even balance theres always some where for someone to cash in on the best ones find a balance btwn business and genetics

For example if i was a breeder and i didnt want my shit hacked i would leave no room for hacks .. release f1s for normal price f2s for half that f3s for half that etc .. but the thought of taking less money is absurd to some and then u mad when people hack ya shit .. imitations is one of the highest forms of flattery and theres no such thing as bad press a real business man would have found a way to get the orginals to the masses in abundance bc the name is BIGGER than ever but nah people rather complain than capitalize

But ALOT of them barely test stuff much less breed into f2 unless its a HIT .. right now some f2s are fetching more than f1 bc the breeder didnt kno what he had until it was gone now the f2s have a popular name and hes tryna cash in and the orginal parents are long gone

All that said im open to newcomers imagine we had to buy from the same 5 companies bc they did the only true breeding.. yea we would have boring stable plants ..

Natural high said:

I think if you breed for profit or recognition using other peoples work then you should acknowledge the origins of the original genetics. To not do so is just selfish and shows a lack of integrity.

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Yeah, for real even if not out of respect, I want to know the lineage. Don't really care for Serious Seeds just because of that, sure they have good genetics but I swear AK-47 is some kind of Super Skunk at least when I grew it not sure if that was before or after they changed it.

I agree. To not give credit is wrong and shows a lack of respect and much more.

One must be honest and as open as possible, while not giving away proprietary secrets.

I agree with greensanta.

Although some breeders lose stock, parents, moms and have crap remaining to work with. In that case, someone else may have old seeds to f2. Like with ak47.

Given the chance, buying reputable seeds is choice. Breeders are like artists. You like their style or not and value the character of their work. But sometimes, if not often in this biz, such as with c99 rerelease - rep is deceptive.

So there is some hope with clone only's that came from old, at the time, common seed packs. We like to think that peopke found and kept the best phenos of a strain. Although it's hopeful and lacking certainty.

There are things you learn in this area of interest. Strain name may mean it is what you think, may not as well. Gotta do a lot of homework. An f2 or choice cross by a chucker, perhaps is the best available representation of a yesteryear strain.

I can think of smoke that led to good personal memories at the time. Might not have been the best representation of the strain or strain family. But to reconnect with old times is a value unto itself.

There is usually an expectation of quality. I feel it's less about breeder ego, but meeting expectations of the consumer.

Easy7 said:

I agree with greensanta.

Although some breeders lose stock, parents, moms and have crap remaining to work with. In that case, someone else may have old seeds to f2. Like with ak47.

Given the chance, buying reputable seeds is choice. Breeders are like artists. You like their style or not and value the character of their work. But sometimes, if not often in this biz, such as with c99 rerelease - rep is deceptive.

So there is some hope with clone only's that came from old, at the time, common seed packs. We like to think that peopke found and kept the best phenos of a strain. Although it's hopeful and lacking certainty.

There are things you learn in this area of interest. Strain name may mean it is what you think, may not as well. Gotta do a lot of homework. An f2 or choice cross by a chucker, perhaps is the best available representation of a yesteryear strain.

I can think of smoke that led to good personal memories at the time. Might not have been the best representation of the strain or strain family. But to reconnect with old times is a value unto itself.

There is usually an expectation of quality. I feel it's less about breeder ego, but meeting expectations of the consumer.

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really like that line, perfect parallel.

on a side note, what's up with the C99 re release? I've not heard many rumblings but i've not had a change to try it or run it myself.

Many would agree that a simple permission request
is a friendly gesture.

If a breeder releases seeds for commercial distribution
an unwritten agreement is assumed that breeding the
seeds should at least acknowledge the line's origination.

But scabbing genetics seems to be the de rigueur.

Carry on.